T
mines just under 4000 rpm
XP big bores - lets compare
- Thread starter deaner
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O
Heres some food for thought....Most guys who own a stock 800 and ride agressive and in deep snow will benefit from a new "top end" every 1200 to 1500 miles +/-.........Most guys wo own a BB 800 and ride agressive and in deep snow will discover they need a new "top end" more often.....Some BB need them every 800 to 1200 miles.
Fact BB do go down on compression much faster.
OT
Fact BB do go down on compression much faster.
OT
G
Why is that a fact,,
please explain ?
and no, the ramps in a tra do NOT move.....
Gus
please explain ?
and no, the ramps in a tra do NOT move.....
Gus
O
Here i'll explain this as careful as i can.......Keep an eye on your Mag/PTO compression as you acheive the mileage range that i suggested in my previous post and you will quickly understand some hard facts. Down on compression is almost certain when the 800R is under conditions such as deep snow mileage.
OT
G
NOW I UNDERSTAND...
You gave NO answer just bs..
I want a real answer , If you cannot provide the real engineering reasons why your statement would be accurate please refrain from posting..
Why would the piston and ring life be compromised?
why would the expected service intervals be affected?
If that answer is the best you can explain yourself then oops,,, my bad..
tracking compression with a gauge is not giving an answer just a fiqure.
Low comp #'s can come from far to many variables than just ( big bore kits).
Pipes, heads cooling system issues, timing issues caused by poor design ..
All point to the builder or the end user but NOT blanket blame..
Thankgod for the Magnuson Moss act..
You gave NO answer just bs..
I want a real answer , If you cannot provide the real engineering reasons why your statement would be accurate please refrain from posting..
Why would the piston and ring life be compromised?
why would the expected service intervals be affected?
If that answer is the best you can explain yourself then oops,,, my bad..
tracking compression with a gauge is not giving an answer just a fiqure.
Low comp #'s can come from far to many variables than just ( big bore kits).
Pipes, heads cooling system issues, timing issues caused by poor design ..
All point to the builder or the end user but NOT blanket blame..
Thankgod for the Magnuson Moss act..
NOW I UNDERSTAND...
You gave NO answer just bs
I want a real answer , If you cannot provide the real engineering reasons why your statement would be accurate please refrain from posting..
BJ- GFL....LOLhave cold one while you wait...
Why would the piston and ring life be compromised?
why would the expected service intervals be affected?
If that answer is the best you can explain yourself then oops,,, my bad..
tracking compression with a gauge is not giving an answer just a fiqure.
Low comp #'s can come from far to many variables than just ( big bore kits).
Pipes, heads cooling system issues, timing issues caused by poor design ..
All point to the builder or the end user but NOT blanket blame..
Thankgod for the Magnuson Moss act..
cough cough..LMFAO...Gus welcome to "OT world" were everything/nothing makes sense or even matters...just sewage spills from his key board...and the phrase "Nailing JELLO to a tree" comes from...good luck with "getting an answer"...LOL-BJ
O
BJ, Gus Bohne and Others it's a real simple answer....HEAT as it relates to engine tolerance along with the adverse riding conditions such as the LOAD any motor goes through while riding. Deep snow for instance puts more load on any motor vs. trail riding or the occasional weekend warrior ride.....Come on BJ you can't be that out of tune not to know that deep snow riding applys alot more stress to any 2 stroke motor stock or mod.
Doo's 800R for example runs strong out of the box when compared to cat and Poo but not buy much. In the mountains years ago before you were around BJ, we screamed to the OEM's for motors with more torque and grunt to work the deep snow we ride. So the manufacture listened and delivered motor with better engine compression and tighter tolerances from an assembly line product when compared to past engines all in an attempt to increase HP/Torque/Grunt as well as build a light weight motor which in turn = a light weight overall sled. FYI the motor is the heaviest single componant on a snowmobile...Add in larger 40 mm carberators and you can truely say your stocker is an OEM BB when compared to early day 800 cc motors....
Over the years has the Bore & Stroke of the 800R changed ? No
What does all this mean.....You stocker is petty near it's tolerance and although a BB mod will put a happy smile on your face and in many cases a un happy smile as well, how much HP are you really gaining over a good running stocker 10to 12 HP maybe at 9000 feet ??? The real question when comparing stock performance to BB mod performance is reliable every day performance and at what cost to the owner ?? Plus if you believe your BB mod won't require more frequent "top ends" than stockers your being fooled.
What you get at the end of the day when comparing a good running stocker vs a good running bigbore above 9000' is not very much in the gains department and even less reliable as can be heard and read by many unhappy bb mod owners....Todays light weight motors don't give the mod builder alot of room to work with from the engine case to the crank, to the cylinders the 800R designers engineers over all did a good job for a assembly line production motor.
Are The BB's Really Worth It ?? In the real world only if your himarking or trying to win $$$ at the race track.
OT
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I
Man when he gets to blabbering , you do need a big azzed shovel
B
does that answer your question Gus?
O
In ideal conditions @ 9000' your stock 150 HP sled will produce 115 HP +/-
In ideal conditions @ 9000' your 170 HP BB will produce 124 HP +/-
Simple math
OT
In ideal conditions @ 9000' your 170 HP BB will produce 124 HP +/-
Simple math
OT
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G
John, you were correct ( as usual ).
That still is no answer,
Why is there a heat issue ?
why can this so called excessive heat not be managed?
Why , when we add a turbo to this sled does this (heat issue ) not become so unmanagable that the engine does not just implode ?
Under boost we are more than doubling the torque,, why no big heat issue ??
Is there a problem with the cylinder casting at anything other than stock bore ?
Does the fact that the 800r engine is punished with electronic defaults like the mach was mean the geniuses at BRP will discontinue it too ??
OT, you are getting the answers to MY questions from ME..
stop posting please,
Many on this site are looking for advice and trust the knowledge is WITH the one answering the question..
Again can you answer ANY of these questions on your own correctly ??
John,, How you feeling man ??
Gustapo
That still is no answer,
Why is there a heat issue ?
why can this so called excessive heat not be managed?
Why , when we add a turbo to this sled does this (heat issue ) not become so unmanagable that the engine does not just implode ?
Under boost we are more than doubling the torque,, why no big heat issue ??
Is there a problem with the cylinder casting at anything other than stock bore ?
Does the fact that the 800r engine is punished with electronic defaults like the mach was mean the geniuses at BRP will discontinue it too ??
OT, you are getting the answers to MY questions from ME..
stop posting please,
Many on this site are looking for advice and trust the knowledge is WITH the one answering the question..
Again can you answer ANY of these questions on your own correctly ??
John,, How you feeling man ??
Gustapo
O
LMAO, now you want to talk about Turbo's on 2 strokes....8# or 10# ?Carberated or EFI ? Pump Gas or race Gas ? Intercoolers or non-intercoolers.....
Do you also want to believe that with a turbo 2 strokes you have to do "top ends" less frequent ?
Have you tried turboing a carberated 2 stroke on punp fuel ?
Do you think running a turbo puts less stress on the internal parts of motor ?
Do you really have a clue what your talking about ? Or are you just attemmpting to flock your wings but your having a hard time getting off the ground with your rants ?
OT
T
Oh oh. My SHR860 has 903 miles on it. I'd better pull 'er out and send 'er to Big John for a rebuild. I thought it had been running better and better each time out, but I guess it isn't. Thanks for saving my motor OT!!!
O
Oh oh. My SHR860 has 903 miles on it. I'd better pull 'er out and send 'er to Big John for a rebuild. I thought it had been running better and better each time out, but I guess it isn't. Thanks for saving my motor OT!!!
Don't worry your approaching "top end" time every BB requires one sooner or later. I would ask you what your compression is but you would probably fudge the numbers.
OT
B
OT-What is it that goes/wears that makes the compression go down? Rings, poor nikasil that wears off, cyl too thin and goes out of round, the crank, termites eating through the domes.....? What is it with these BB's that they have to be rebuilt so often? I am very confused why you say what you say. Is this personal experience with these mods? Are you an engine builder/engineer in the know , just trying to figure out where all your knowledge on engines (and clutching) comes from.
These posts that are intelligent and informative have been screwed by people that are bound and determined to prove that they know something. I enjoy these posts and don't understand why they always have to go down this road. Sorry if I come off offensive, I am not normally.
"It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"........the ramps in a tra do not move.
Flame away
, just trying to figure out where all your knowledge on engines (and clutching) comes from. These posts that are intelligent and informative have been screwed by people that are bound and determined to prove that they know something. I enjoy these posts and don't understand why they always have to go down this road. Sorry if I come off offensive, I am not normally.
"It is better to be quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"........the ramps in a tra do not move.
Flame away
G
Ok,,OT..
BJ,, he obviously knows nothing, If he did he would have known who he was testing..lol
Guy's , stick to what you are doing, there are good guys that will help as much as we can.
Big bores, pipes porting and of course turbo's are all good to a point, your intended end use as well as the depth of your pockets should be the deciding factors.
Air to the side of caution when choosing your toys, give yourself room on fuel requirements too, nothing worse than a guy blending his way to disaster rather than admitting he cannot afford the fuel to run at that particular level.
This seems to be the #1 reason why good shops and builders get bad internet reputations,,People who DO NOT have the ability to tune, maintain and or just pain operate the behemoth they created..
As always, be safe, have fun and I promise not to get into it with OT again.
Gus
BJ,, he obviously knows nothing, If he did he would have known who he was testing..lol
Guy's , stick to what you are doing, there are good guys that will help as much as we can.
Big bores, pipes porting and of course turbo's are all good to a point, your intended end use as well as the depth of your pockets should be the deciding factors.
Air to the side of caution when choosing your toys, give yourself room on fuel requirements too, nothing worse than a guy blending his way to disaster rather than admitting he cannot afford the fuel to run at that particular level.
This seems to be the #1 reason why good shops and builders get bad internet reputations,,People who DO NOT have the ability to tune, maintain and or just pain operate the behemoth they created..
As always, be safe, have fun and I promise not to get into it with OT again.
Gus
Gus, if you ask for a valid assessment, ask for an answer that responds to the question, you won't get it.
You'll only see an answer be continuously twisted & degraded to the point to where it's not recognizable.
....ramps don't move
You'll only see an answer be continuously twisted & degraded to the point to where it's not recognizable.
....ramps don't move
T
my sled is on its second season with BB, i have not had one single engine related issue, hell i just changed my plugs and cleaned my power valves for the first time in two yrs.
THis motor has had 65lbs of nitrous ran though it this yr.
ANd there has been 4 poos burn down around me.
So dont agree one bit with your comments, totally and completely out of line with no facts to back them up what so ever.
Just gut shot that based on bad performing kits you have seen out on the snow.
But how many bad running stock sleds do you see, or should i say stock engine with a mosh of aftermarket crap that they cant make work!
T
Ok,,OT..
BJ,, he obviously knows nothing, If he did he would have known who he was testing..lol
Guy's , stick to what you are doing, there are good guys that will help as much as we can.
Big bores, pipes porting and of course turbo's are all good to a point, your intended end use as well as the depth of your pockets should be the deciding factors.
Air to the side of caution when choosing your toys, give yourself room on fuel requirements too, nothing worse than a guy blending his way to disaster rather than admitting he cannot afford the fuel to run at that particular level.
This seems to be the #1 reason why good shops and builders get bad internet reputations,,People who DO NOT have the ability to tune, maintain and or just pain operate the behemoth they created..
As always, be safe, have fun and I promise not to get into it with OT again.
Gus
So much horse power and so little tallent, I have been on a few rides like that this yr.
mountains and trees 4, sleds 0
O
Here's a question JOE has to date not answered and continues to post dumb comments.......... Joe, when on clicker #5 and the clicker is adjusted down to #4,#3,#2, or #1 how does the ramp(s) come to rest on the lower # positions ?
OT
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