Well said. Thank you!
WSSA Votes for Registration Fee Increase
- Thread starter mdmead
- Start date
Well said. Thank you!
I have paid the same amount in tabs for the last 9 years at least. The WSSA is working with us, not against us. I read in another post that only 1500 of the post cards asking this question were returned. I sent mine in, how about you. It's unfortunate that this turns sledders against each other when it's meant to help us all. For those that choose to not register your sleds, the ticket money that you pay does go to the state that you hate. Pay your tabs so that it at least gets used for something we all enjoy, sledding.
WSSA votes for reg. fee increase
I would like to add some information to this subject.
Of the $33. registration fee per sled collected thru the D.O.L. for the Wash. State Parks Winter Recreation Motorized Program.
65% goes to trail grooming
14% to snow removal and sanitation
13% to administration
5% to equipment reserve
3% to education and enforcement
Also for each registered sled the program receives from the gas tax refund program $31.05.
Of the $0.37 we pay at the pump, we receive $0.23 in return.
The formula is $0.23x 135 gallons(average amount of fuel per sled per year)
Equals $31.05.
Of the $33.00 we pay upfront we receive approx. $64.00 for the program.
This year there is approx. 29,000 reg. sleds.
I Know the increase is big, but the reduction in services, sno-park closures, grooming reductions, etc. what ever it may be, will be hard to swallow. Once a trail is abandoned, we may never get it back.
Either the number of reg. sleds needs to increase, or some form of a fee increase for a revenue source.
We are looking for your input, good or bad.
WSSA Dist 5 So. Rep
I would like to add some information to this subject.
Of the $33. registration fee per sled collected thru the D.O.L. for the Wash. State Parks Winter Recreation Motorized Program.
65% goes to trail grooming
14% to snow removal and sanitation
13% to administration
5% to equipment reserve
3% to education and enforcement
Also for each registered sled the program receives from the gas tax refund program $31.05.
Of the $0.37 we pay at the pump, we receive $0.23 in return.
The formula is $0.23x 135 gallons(average amount of fuel per sled per year)
Equals $31.05.
Of the $33.00 we pay upfront we receive approx. $64.00 for the program.
This year there is approx. 29,000 reg. sleds.
I Know the increase is big, but the reduction in services, sno-park closures, grooming reductions, etc. what ever it may be, will be hard to swallow. Once a trail is abandoned, we may never get it back.
Either the number of reg. sleds needs to increase, or some form of a fee increase for a revenue source.
We are looking for your input, good or bad.
WSSA Dist 5 So. Rep
Spencer-Do you really think they wont raise our fees for 15 years if this $40 increase passes? What fairytale are living in man.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Catzr-Why is the solution now days to always raise taxes or raise fees. You are turning a blind eye to the real problem.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk
When was the last increase?
R
raytech
Member
I'm no different than anyone else, I don't want to give this state one more dime of my money. I deal with it both on the sled front and the different "passes" needed to ride motorcycles offroad in the summer.
I also, unlike many from what I seen, filled out the survey earlier this year. At that time I indicated support for higher fees IF THOSE MONIES WERE DIRECTED STAIGHT BACK TO OUR SPORT to support the grooming, plowing the snoparks, servicing the sanicans, etc. that well all benefit from.
I think at some point it is wise to take the higher road and propose our own fees as a group. At the same time bargaining for the "guarantee" that we will support ourselves and our funds will not be swept. That being said if we do our part and the state comes in from behind and gives us the shaft....well than all bets are off. Send your message anyway you want by not registering, vote to throw the bums out, etc..
I also, unlike many from what I seen, filled out the survey earlier this year. At that time I indicated support for higher fees IF THOSE MONIES WERE DIRECTED STAIGHT BACK TO OUR SPORT to support the grooming, plowing the snoparks, servicing the sanicans, etc. that well all benefit from.
I think at some point it is wise to take the higher road and propose our own fees as a group. At the same time bargaining for the "guarantee" that we will support ourselves and our funds will not be swept. That being said if we do our part and the state comes in from behind and gives us the shaft....well than all bets are off. Send your message anyway you want by not registering, vote to throw the bums out, etc..
T
tar
Well-known member
There is nothing stoping you or any one donating to the program. If any one thinks the program is short on funds, donate then. Don't tell us how much you would spend.
Tar
Last edited:
so 13% administrative cost smells like government b s to me... crap you see these state and federal employees sitting on his or her butts not working... heck in this state they are proposing more wilderness to block so call illegal snowmobiling essentially because the doughnut eating government employees are not in shape to ride a sled... so help me understand one time in history by raising the cost of taxes you had substained revenue increase... if you have 29K sleds currently registered, how many of us are going to say screw you Washington State... I am not buying...and you will have a decrease in revenues????? in our area don't plow or groom (yea it is nice but I can live without it) crap I remember the days you had to ride three miles to just get to the US Forest lands... I can live without groomed trails... back in the sixties and seventies there were no groomed trails in out area... we survived... actually you pretty much had the mountains to yourself (that was cool)... dragged the kids along and they bounced along.. without groomed trails the grandkids will do just fine. so leave it as is... spend the money on parking lot plowing, screw grooming and have volunteers run the machines.... and dump your WSSA membership!!!
This what will not happen with this high of an increase... 10 or 15 bucks a sled fine I can live with that. But an increase of 40 per year and I will simply sell two of the sleds. I only keep them for friends and many years register them and they never even go out. So now you just lost two sleds worth of registration and gas tax.
Or how about droping the snopark pass from the tabs... leave them at 33 and sell me the snopark pass extra. I only have one truck but end up with 4 pass's to park
J
jeepdad
Member
i dont think anyone here is debating a rate increase to keep services going or make services better, those of us that work and run our own bussiness know to well the bottom line and the pain there, but if i went to my customers and more than doubled my fees, i believe they would look elsewhere and the amount of work i did get would suffer greatly. a 10% increase this year and next year would have probably gone through with very little comment or oposition.
i understand all the sides of this, when you see the people who are supposed to be there working to keep things running and orderly sitting in running trucks with a piss poor attitude towards you and yours, then it leaves a bitter taste.
when we gotta run our sleds on asphault because there is no plow money to get to the groomed trails, we get a little pissy. and then when we finally get some some late in the year and we have no groomed trails to ride, because they groomed when there was 6" of snow for 2 months we ask why.
my personal opinion on this is we seem to be getting punished for what we like to do, when the system doesnt SEEM to be perfect or hardly working. i know the groomers need a crystal ball to do it and make us whiners happy, but again doubling the fees. really.
So now we pass out negative rating for this discussion? Thanks Plumnuts!
Last edited:
"They" have not taken a penny of our funding...yet. Hopefully they never do. If that happens I will have a different attitude.
Most of us spend more than this on gas JUST for my truck to get to and from the snow park in one day! It is the price of one dinner out for 2 people.
If the money wasn't needed I would be against it, but it is "US", the sledders that have been asking for a fee increase for close to 10 years now. The WSSA has had ay least 2 surveys that I know of and both said "we want to pay more" as long as the $$ goes to our needs. I'm sure there are those who are opposed, but you are in the minority. Some people will always oppose paying more just to make a statement, without thought to whether the money is truly needed or not.
With some of the statementss made it sounds like some don't understand how the system works....they groomers are privatly owned and operated, it is not a state employee that is getting paid. If the groomer breaks the owner has to fix it. He has to buy the fuel for the groomer and the truck to transport it...and we all know what the price of fuel has done since the last fee increase. That expense alone would probably justify this $40/year increase.
Message from WSSA
I received this this morning from WSSA:
"Daniel C Fallstrom
Mike this was a poorly timed vote by the board this will not be moving forward at this time. We do need your input on in the near future Please do not give up on us wssa. the snowmobile program need more funding if YOU have any ideas please let us know. thanks for your email. Dan"
So suggestions I have sent:
$5-10 increase in tabs
Increase volunteers driving groomers
End reciprocity with Idaho (they don't give it us) and any other state that does not allow WA tabs
Decrease administrative costs
Sno Park permit 20 bucks
Don't groom as much
I received this this morning from WSSA:
"Daniel C Fallstrom
Mike this was a poorly timed vote by the board this will not be moving forward at this time. We do need your input on in the near future Please do not give up on us wssa. the snowmobile program need more funding if YOU have any ideas please let us know. thanks for your email. Dan"
So suggestions I have sent:
$5-10 increase in tabs
Increase volunteers driving groomers
End reciprocity with Idaho (they don't give it us) and any other state that does not allow WA tabs
Decrease administrative costs
Sno Park permit 20 bucks
Don't groom as much
Lack of information
It seems to me that there is a lack of informaton playing a big part in this thread.
It seems reading through here that several of the folks that are vocal about the proposed increase aren't up to speed on current actions, which would indicate they aren't attending club or grooming meetings.
I have not seen but one comment here thanking anyone for the extra effort they have made ensuring MY/OUR sledding is good. I KNOW there are a bunch of good folks on here that have made huge efforts and sacrifices of personal time and money to keep things going now, and to try and correct the issues that crop up with the grooming and funding. When you list all the things you hate about the program, it would be nice to recognize the efforts of people to make it better . . . instead of just complaining about it.
Also, I think it would be great if the program was biforcated from the State and completely run internally. However, as with every group I have been affiliated with ever, 5-10 % of the people do 90% of the work.
I understand the frustration, but I don't understand why folks that are upset enough to bash fellow sledders on here, don't seem to show up at gooming meetings, or Legislative days or club meetings.
I don't want to spend money I don't have to either. But I will support this sport because I love it. We also register an extra sled that hasn't been ridden in two years. I will also be as active as I can to HELP the sport, not refuse to support it and still complain.
To me, if you aren't doing everything you can to help, then you don't have any right to complain.
If I'm wrong about that, please explain, I'm interested and easy going. . . .
Bag
Post Script . . BigRed, don't sweat it, gave you an extra green for taking part!!
It seems to me that there is a lack of informaton playing a big part in this thread.
It seems reading through here that several of the folks that are vocal about the proposed increase aren't up to speed on current actions, which would indicate they aren't attending club or grooming meetings.
I have not seen but one comment here thanking anyone for the extra effort they have made ensuring MY/OUR sledding is good. I KNOW there are a bunch of good folks on here that have made huge efforts and sacrifices of personal time and money to keep things going now, and to try and correct the issues that crop up with the grooming and funding. When you list all the things you hate about the program, it would be nice to recognize the efforts of people to make it better . . . instead of just complaining about it.
Also, I think it would be great if the program was biforcated from the State and completely run internally. However, as with every group I have been affiliated with ever, 5-10 % of the people do 90% of the work.
I understand the frustration, but I don't understand why folks that are upset enough to bash fellow sledders on here, don't seem to show up at gooming meetings, or Legislative days or club meetings.
I don't want to spend money I don't have to either. But I will support this sport because I love it. We also register an extra sled that hasn't been ridden in two years. I will also be as active as I can to HELP the sport, not refuse to support it and still complain.
To me, if you aren't doing everything you can to help, then you don't have any right to complain.
If I'm wrong about that, please explain, I'm interested and easy going. . . .
Bag
Post Script . . BigRed, don't sweat it, gave you an extra green for taking part!!
You and I said basically the same thing as far as paying 10-15 more, not doubling it, and afraid the state would take a bigger percentage of the increase from the snowmobiling fund .......... and you gave me a negative post rating. If you ask me - that is " plumnuts ".At least I would still register my three sleds here.
Last edited:
Matt,
Are the results of the recent survery in yet?
If so, would you mind posting up the results?
Thanks.
Are the results of the recent survery in yet?
If so, would you mind posting up the results?
Thanks.
I don't have that info yet Dave. Pamela (McConkey - State Parks) is still compiling it and can provide some basics. Unfortunately, in hindsight, the survey questions weren't presented quite as well as they could have been. Overall, the majority supported an increase in registration, and a majority didn't support charging for a sno-park permit. We don't know though if the people that supported one didn't support the other... or supported both... or neither. (This info might be coming, I'm not sure.) The bigger problem was providing ranges for a registration increase instead of a set number. If you add the number of people supporting $20 or more, that is a majority. It would have been nice to have an actual dollar amount that was most supported. (Not blaming State Parks... it was a learning experience for everyone involved and WSSA worked on the survey questions too.) The folks who made the push during the WSSA meeting for $40 believe that the survey results support that number; others don't... Nobody seemed to take into account the fuel tax lid removal WSSA has been working on for several years and is sooooo close to being accomplished. Either they figure it will never come, won't come in time, or won't be enough. (The latter is true without an increase in the number of registered snowmobiles.)
Tar, I believe we should all post how much we would spend...after all that is what started this thread
Sooooo
set up and collect at the trailhead and get rid of the state and I will do the same here as in canada...ehh remember I have already spent $200 in canada this season
now you know about $ 20.00 per ride...
if anyone does not want to pay then leave some areas ungroomed and not maintained for them to ride as is done in canada.. those areas are not bad after fresh snow...however the snowpark can be a bitch
for me riding in this state with the canada model described above, choosing where to ride each time would probably be about $ 600 from me alone into the grooming fund
pay as you go without gvt would be my best scenario...and if we could sue for offroad gas tax to pay some then hell ya.
my bad after looking back I have only spent $180 for trailhead fees in canada so far this year...planning one more trip so may be about $250 when done
Last edited:
