DNR-No Ahtanum, Manashtash, Rattlesnake, Lily Lake Sno-Parks or Grooming

[carld123]

Thank You

First of all I want to thank everyone that showed at the meeting on Tuesday! The show of support was overwhelming, I believe we have made a statement to our government we are not going to lay down and walk away; by attacking these issues in two ways. #1. On the upper end politically with WSSA, which by the way all Ski Benders are members of and #2. By rallying together to let our community, restaurants, gas stations and local vendors know that we are not going to abandon them during these cut backs. It would be all so easy to park the sleds for a year or two, catch up on some honey do's watch football and possibly and i say possibly clean the garage "now honey don't get any ideas if you read this", however we have elected to ban together and deal with this on both levels. I have been notified and read a very strong letter that WSSA sent to Peter Goldmark "Comissioner of Public Lands" DNR, Oct 7 so I can attest they have began action on there end. In the meantime DNR is completing the necessary forms required through all entities required so we can go forward with the agreement made between DNR and YSBenders to go sledding this winter.
Unfortunately my voice couldn't hold up Tuesday evening and I wanted to adress Brian S. with his statement of identifying the problem and coming up with the solution. We identified the problem: our legislature cut funds. Crude, basic but simple. Not DNR's fault, not Don Ramussens fault or anyone on that team. I believe they lost several people, like 23 to budget cuts.
The solution: We will leave the politics to WSSA to deal with because thats what they do.
We, the local community will rally and overcome this short term disability. It is all so important right now that everyone stand together in one form or another to beat this and not let them take anything else away.
How? By being proactive with your local club or WSSA. As President of the YSBenders I can tell you, we are being heard loud and clear... "United we stand, Divided we fall"
Thank all of you for the support you have shown, stay tuned.

 

[Just spankin]

Where be targeted!

Those parks have been open all year for camping, and hunting! now that we need them they want to close them! its a easy way for them to say hay! come up with the money! how can my 10 year old kid save money and build a sled this year, But DNR cant budget there money! who cares about the grooming, just leave the road open and let us be! it they close the park it s going to make it unsafe, people will still get up there, and when something does happen! there be no safe roads for the wvf or rescue to go get them! Then dnr or the state will have a big law suit! the parks are closed but thats not all dnr land!

 

[PRINCESS]

Every year we spend a week of our vacation snowmobiling at different locations in other states. I can guarantee you that MORE of my vacation time will be allocated to winter snowmobiling in other states. Areas that offer great grooming, good snow and that are happy and welcome snowmobilers.
I might as well fund these states via my gas puchases, sales tax and fees that I pay while visiting versus the State Of Washington taxes and fees that go to the "Other Washington State" - the west side

 

[dogdave]

Thank you for the post Carld123. I would also urge snowmobilers to attend the Grooming counsil meetings to get REAL information on land matters.

 

[trailtoy1993]

Has anyone approached DNR on the idea of contract oversight of the grooming and plowing? Say a contract between local clubs and the DNR to say "lease" (at zero dollar amount) the parks and trails through the winter and handle all maintenance and damage at end of winter? So State Parks provides the grooming from our tabs and the ski-benders provide oversight in lieu of DNR? The club oversight would be at no cost to DNR and the grooming would be at no cost to DNR and we would not be being extorted by the state as we would have direct responsibility for our own interests. Sounds like win win but I'm no DNR extortionist or a lawyer so I don't actually know the real implications of what I am proposing....

 

[94fordguy]

Can anyone give an update on where everything stands as of now? I saw a story on the news a day or 2 ago publicizing this issue, but I don't recall how far along they said things had progressed. Is there anyone in the know on this that could bring us up to speed?

Thanks

 

[catzr]

DNR/Tampico

Fordman, I will try not to speak out of turn here.
The fund raising is still going on. The Yakima Ski-Benders are still trying to reach snowmobilers and interested parties, the feedback is very positive for a volitile issue. Looks like enough money has been raised to get the ball rolling with DNR.
Still waiting on confirmation and finalizing terms.
Next Ski-Bender meeting Tue. Nov. 3rd., Yak., El Ricon, 7pm.
First groomer meeting Wed. Nov. 4th., Naches Ranger Station, 7pm.

YSB member
WSSA Dist 5 So. Rep.
SAWS member
Blue Ribbon supporter

 

[trailtoy1993]

Just out of curiosity to re-up interest in the subject. How much money has been raised and what legislators have been involved and how have negotiations have been with DNR? Also, what about suing the DNR since our tab money pays to have the grooming/plowing and the area of grooming/plowing is being reduced should we not get a refund on our tabs? Sue DNR for all the money they have left if they don't allow us to handle our own Snoparks?

 

[shmuckaluck]

Every year we spend a week of our vacation snowmobiling at different locations in other states. I can guarantee you that MORE of my vacation time will be allocated to winter snowmobiling in other states. Areas that offer great grooming, good snow and that are happy and welcome snowmobilers.
I might as well fund these states via my gas puchases, sales tax and fees that I pay while visiting versus the State Of Washington taxes and fees that go to the "Other Washington State" - the west side

Hey guys,
I live on the west side, and half the people that talk S, don't even get off there azz and vote, we need to get these F-IN women out of office in this state, they are destroying the state of Washington. we don't need decisions made on how we feel at the time, or that bleeding heart, PC crap. we need logical minds making logical decisions. and women are not logical

 

[KATTSASS]

What Next????

Im a 206 rider but some of the best riding is on the 509 side and it's well worth the drive. I personally think once you grease the palms of corruption they will want it for the following years to come extorting more money in more areas. The real question should be is why is it you pay but no play? How much next year? 30K? 35K? on so on? I think so, and on top of that this so-called corrupt state of wash will no doubt raise the fees to reg your sled. This is not the time to "GIVE" them a "hand-out" of more of our money that they have pissed away because of power hungry incompetent elected officials that do not have a clue of what they were really voted in for. Now is the time for a another "Tea Party" to let them know just how much you really care.
I personally out of principle would'nt give this state another dime for so-called lack of funding which is just another one of the so many lies, deception and extortion. Remeber, this is the same state gov that totally ignored 3, yes 3 times that "the people" voted for $30.00 car tabs! You can't even reg a snowmobile for that and pay tax on the gas you use in it for soon to be no parking, no grooming, but get caught riding in these so-called no-fund areas without reg your sled and you will be spanked! I would rather see money donated hiring Tim Eyman for a possible long term fix that all in the future would really benifit from. The state of Wash and DNR are not your friends and this "WILL" be death from a thousand cuts! Beware or the devil in the details.

 

[Tampico]

Here is the latest update, should be fairly accurate (I apologize for my tardiness in keeping this updated,=work and a never ending shed project):

We are at or slightly above 86% of the way to achieving our goal of $25,000 for the 2009 grooming season. The Ski-Benders are still working hard and actively collecting funds, but a check has been cut to DNR to get the ball rolling.

Specific to TrailToy1993: Your tab money and gas tax % money goes to State Parks and Recreation, and they administer the grooming and plowing. DNR actually puts no funds forward to this, so you would be sueing the wrong department. The problem with this year, is that DNR lost its oversight money for these operations on DNR lands. This goes directly to our Gov. Gregoire, as she has supposedly "shifted" funds in our states budget, which she can do in DNR's case but, not in the State Parks and Recs portion, as those are dedicated. This is why only DNR lands are the problem for this budget cycle.

Trailtoy1993, shmuckaluck, and KATTSASS, you are all correct it is political, which we hope to solve with our local legislators for the 2010-2011 season. However, we are probably entering a period where we may have to pay more to enjoy the sport we love, barring a major political upheaval in our state. Frankly, I am going to support and pay slightly more (ie 0.4% more is worth it (compared to sled and gear cost)) rather than lose it and wait for "utopia" to come around as far as the political process. IF we had done nothing, we would have been packed into our remaining sno-parks, and spilled over into other areas, including the I-90 corridor. What ever the cause of our situation at hand, this would have been an outcome that would produce no winners in the short or long term.

I appreciate your comments, assume everyone here is a member of SAWS and WSSA, and look forward to meeting you all at the WSSA "All trails to Olympia" day on January 26, 2010, where numbers count! This is a superb time to visit our legislators and state departments, and let them know our concern and outrage over this issue and others that effect our right to use our public lands, both state and federal.

Thanks,
Tampico

 

[Snodawg]

When and where is the next Ski Benders meeting? Other meetings?

 

[Tampico]

The next Ski-Bender meeting is Tuesday, December 1st, at the El Rincon resturant near the intersection of Fruitvale and North 40th Ave. The meeting starts at 7:00, lots of folks show up a bit early to have a dinner and visit. I don't know of any other currently scheduled DNR meetings. The grooming council meetings are the first Wednesday of each month at the Naches Ranger Station, also at 7:00. Grooming can not start until the end of hunting season, and wheeled vehicles are legal until the berm is up. One change from last year, no wheeled ORV's will be allowed over the berm. All vehicles crossing over the berm (now a legal barrier) must have a track for propulsion and a ski(s) for steering.

I anticipate a lot of riders this weekend at Ahtanum and other areas due to anticipated snow over the next 5 days or so (theres been a fair number of those lucky people for the last week or so). Logging trucks are still coming out of the Ahtanum, so watch for traffic on those narrow roads. I don't think there will be enough to ride out of the sno-park just yet (as of now 0-.25" base at the sno-park). If you do go, let me know and lets get an separate Ahtanum riding area thread going. I am at least 2 weekends away from going.

Tampico

 

[deepdiver]

UPdate from WASSA AHTANUM & OTHER SNO-PARKS ON DNR LAND WILL OPEN! (Nov '09) - Thanks to the Yakima Ski Benders and hundreds of donations, $25,000 has been pledged to cover DNR oversight of the central Washington Sno-Parks. Great job Ski Benders!

 

[Tampico]

Tampico update

(reposted from the Hows Tampico thread)

Saturday (02/06/2010) I went to the Snowmobile Advisory Committee meeting in Cle Elum. This group advises state parks on how to distribute the funds for the grooming and plowing (the main meeting is in July for the upcoming year). It looks like there will again be cuts for the next grooming and plowing season (we may have some carry-over from this years low snow season). There is a limit to how much annual cutbacks our groomer operators can accept before they start rejecting bids. A couple of other points from the meeting:

-Registering your sleds raises funds for our sport in two ways; 1) The base amount for the registration, and 2) The amount of gas tax that is proportioned. If you don't register your sled, our dedicated grooming/plowing account does not get that gas tax percentage. Bottom line, we need registered sleds to fund our programs.

-We need to be looking for a slight fee increase for our sport. I know of no other activity that has a constant or declining cost structure to participate. I personally think we pay to little for what we do; especially compared to our machine, clothing, transportation and fuel costs. If the fee could be implemented correctly (across State Parks, DNR, County, etc) at a decent rate, all of our current DNR accessibility problems would probably go away. A lot of active snowmobilers are looking at the fairest way to get this accomplished, and are putting a load of personal time and effort into this.

-DNR / Ahtanum issues- The DNR is looking for ways to mitigate some of the fundraising costs for the next season. They still have major funding problems (our problem has now hit western Washington), and will have for the near term future. I envision with no great certainty that our fundraising efforts will continue for the next season in order to continue to keep the Ahtanum and other DNR areas open.

-GROOMING EVALUATION FORM- Please fill this out. this gives state parks an accurate, written indication of how our trails are. They must have these for end of the year analysis. Make sure they are concise and accurate, pro or con. Just venting on the sno-west forum is not going to have positive effects on our local grooming program. I had linked this on the How's Tampico thread, but it currently seems to not be working.

The Ski-Benders club is still a little short on funding for the current snowmobiling season; ie we are still collecting donations. Contact me for information.

Thank you,
Tampico