Wolves

[motojunkie101]

The problem isn't that we have wolves re-introduced. The problem is that this sub species of wolf isn't native to the area(s) where they have been moved. The native wolves weren't near the size of the canadian greys we have roaming the woods now. I don't think we need to kill all of them, but the population needs to be kept in check.

Scott rockholm has a bunch of good stuff on youtube as well. I believe his channel is rockholm66.

 

[PowderCrew]

The problem isn't that we have wolves re-introduced. The problem is that this sub species of wolf isn't native to the area(s) where they have been moved. The native wolves weren't near the size of the canadian greys we have roaming the woods now. I don't think we need to kill all of them, but the population needs to be kept in check.

Scott rockholm has a bunch of good stuff on youtube as well. I believe his channel is rockholm66.

Agreed... really no comment on the "species" part of the arguement. You are correct as far as I have come to understand. I guess the answer would be to learn what the differences are with "this" species as opposed to the "native to a specific area" wolf and develop productive managemant/hunting policies accordingly?

 

[slash]

i think the best thing to do is introduce the wolf back into ALL ITS ORGINAL AREAS INCLUDING NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND ECT ...ECT..and see just how much they like them

 

[PowderCrew]

NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND ECT ...ECT..

OTHER PLACES than need to be PROPERLY MANAGED!

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

Not really sure I understand the direction of your reply ARMY?... Anything on this earth doesnt have to be "native" or "populated in ones area" for that person to have an interest. I am partial to all wild animals (and I have an interest in wolves, I own 2 hybrids), I said I dont believe wolves should be "erradicted"... just because they are a tool for a land grab, or any other reason. Land grabs will continue. If the wolf is GONE 100%... the tree huggers will make something else their tool. Wolves, to me... arent a "riding area" specifice issue. I think they are an issue in co-existing with man because of the governments. Yes, in Nevada, there are no wolves. But our land use is under attack just like everywhere else. Heck... our 60+ mile mountain range only allows less than 1000 acres of sled access, and it has NOTHING to do with ANY kind of animal. Its simply because its "beautiful". I watched the video. I got the impression its to draw attention to the over-population and mismanagement altogether?(more directly towards the affect on wild game and human inter-action?) Didnt see anything that tied the problem to "closing down riding areas" SPECIFICALLY... my comment was "in my opinion, I dont think they should be ERRADICATED"...in response to the comment earlier: "If hunting them till there gone then thats what we will do"... and I stand by that. Currently... I suspect the "wilhorse" issue that we DO deal with here in Nevada may have the same agenda... but I dont think we should "wipe-out" the wild horse.

...and the wolf in general IS native, its been around as long as man, and everything else wild. I believe it has its place for existence, thats all.

Ok thanks I think I was a bit confused earlier I am sorry about that.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

i think the best thing to do is introduce the wolf back into ALL ITS ORGINAL AREAS INCLUDING NEW YORK, LONG ISLAND ECT ...ECT..and see just how much they like them

I agree but they would have some b.s. excuse why we shouldnt.

 

[MT rydn]

wolves

only good wolf is a dead a wolf, plan and simple

Agree with highmark. want your wolves? - Keep them in yellowstone and watch them through your camera lenses like all the other tourists...but you will see rare Elk. Yes, your wolves in the "natural state".

Wolf packs have been left to their "natural state", as defined by all your forests service experts/YNP types/greenies, since introduction in YNP. Seriously all legitimate sources show elk numbers are down in and outside of YNP. Talk to hunters. Actual hunters out in the field who are telling you those wolves "in their natural state" have left markedly reduced numbers. Watch the whole film. He is right on.

Sorry, have no sympathy for the anmals. Honestly - explain to me the valuable ecologic niche they have? What is it they do that is so valuable it would be tragedy if they were not in the forests/woods? Was there some terrible "ecosystem" tragedy that we are now realizing since the saving wolf is back out there? What is it? List those improvements to our "ecosystem" that you have seen. T rex was also a natural part of our environment. I greenie could find one "breeding pair" it would be jurassic park and to hell with every other animal - it's just natural.

For those so concerned about the wolf/the wolf feelings/the wolf role in nature and that's how you operate, than how do the elk "feel" about their plight of 24 / 7stress with wolf packs in their midst. Is it also negative then we are losing 10 x the number of elk for each single wolf gain?

I think things were going pretty well before wolf reintroduction. I agree, remove the wolves so more elk are out there and before those packs turn to something else after they have slaughtered thee last of the herds.

I guess I'm just not as sophisticated in my ecologic understandings/ecosystem engineering theories as some out there but I can think of a few of you who will teach me. Try to use some legitimate evidence where it exists.

 

[PowderCrew]

I guess some questions on your post (and i mean no sarcasm or anything...) Do you think a HEALTHY number of wolves would yield the same current game (elk) issues? IF there were say... 300'ish spread WIDELY out, and had about the same impact as coyotes (and people were allowed to shoot them near cattle/populations/etc... would you feel the same way? I guess (from your post) im asking if you feel "the WOLF itself" is the problem or is it the current population levels? Think there would still be unacceptable issues if we brought down numbers to that of say... lions and bears, etc? Just wondering if peeps REALLY "want the WOLVES GONE", or do they feel that the "SITUATION CURRENTLY" is the real problem?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

people are emotional about it on both sides and hunters want them gone because they are used to them not being there and being able to hunt and actually get something. In theory I would say manage them, but my idea of managing them wont ever happen. They should have left them out and the wolf would have migrated from canada anyway, but it would be a natural balance and we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[aksnopro]

do you guys have predator control, get with your department of fish and game they know the #'s the land can sustain and how they are effecting other animals. i have a hard time bieleving the wolves are dieing off, as they are VERY smart.


i kill a moose and a couple caribou every year, in my hunting area they have done predator control (for bears and wolfs) and the moose population has come back 10 fold. its great 4-5 of my buddies fed there family's because of the wolf and bear population were in check.Only problem i have with them is when you get dysfunctional packs that kill 4-5 animals and only eat 1.

are they allowing too many wolf permits? is the pack really hurting? or does fish and game have them managed just like they want? are you guys on sleds pushing the game out of the area?

-Aksnopro

 

[MT rydn]

Take emotions out. Wolf numbers are high, elk numbers are low. What is it exactly the wolf does that is so important? Go ahead and watch a National Geographic / YNP video/narrative. What a joke - "wolves take out the old and unhealthy animals" improving the health of the herd. Seriously? They eat tiny elk calves and rip them from healthy pregnant cows. There are plenty of pics of that happening. "The wolves leave remains of carcass for smaller animals to survive ( birds, coyotes)". That's also a joke. Those animals were doing just fine on carcass of diseased/dying elk that were not taken down by wolves.

Additionally you can find video of packs of wolves trying to separate grizzly cubs from grizzly sows. Those wolves are interested in the weak alright - the young / newborns of elk, buffalo, grizzly, etc. I wonder if reason we see more grizzly now in areas they were never seen before is partially due to wolf packs.

I also know of no other animal that appears to "sport kill" en mass. How many times have you heard a rancher complain of losing a herd of sheep overnight, all barely nibbled on, by a grizzly or coyotes or whatever.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

Deer and elk numbers down around here, like stated above we are seeing more grizzly in areas not seen before. There is a reason why they put a season on wolves its not because they have good meat its because they are taking down game for fun. They are the terrorist of the forest and they cant and wont change. Putting a non native wolf in Yellowstone National Park was about as smart as some idiot putting a few sharks in a reservoir and expecting it not to affect anything.

If the wolves would have migrated from Canada to the U.S. like everyone thinks would have happened they would have not got this far and other measures would have been taken to stop them from getting this far South. Its just a matter of time before the greenie treehugging granolas try to implament something else non native. Whats next Armadillos and possums? Another pest type creature that is evil?

 

[Ricks 32]

Idaho State record shot in 2009 in Medicine Lodge was 217 lbs. It's in the 2010 Hunting Reg manual. I just googled the world record wolf and it was over 230 lbs out of Alberta. The Canadian Grey's are huge. Biologists are seeing heavier males starting to become more common in the Rockies due to the abundant supply of food/protein (especially in winter).

The pic is an illusion, the largest wolf ever recorded was 129lbs (which is rare) the last time I researched it and the pic was around long before that. I took a pic of me at 6'6" picking up the malamute in the pic above and he looked just as big, he weighs 110lbs at the most. The average heavy wolf is around 109lbs.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

Idaho State record shot in 2009 in Medicine Lodge was 217 lbs. It's in the 2010 Hunting Reg manual. I just googled the world record wolf and it was over 230 lbs out of Alberta. The Canadian Grey's are huge. Biologists are seeing heavier males starting to become more common in the Rockies due to the abundant supply of food/protein (especially in winter).

Thanks Ricks 32 I appreciate your research and I do believe they will get even bigger and I can see in the future a 250lb wolf

 

[Ricks 32]

Yeah I'm not sure how much bigger they'll get. With hunting now open, more competition and fewer elk, I'm not sure what to expect.

I have a customer who is a Biologist at U of Utah and he said that there is a study currently on Grizzlies in Y-Park. There are a few males who haven't hibernated in a few years due to they are following the wolf pack around and feasting on the kills the wolves make. These bears are eating 12 months a year and not loosing the weight during winter. I haven't read this so I don't have details, but it's definitely throwing the bears balance out of wack.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

Yeah I'm not sure how much bigger they'll get. With hunting now open, more competition and fewer elk, I'm not sure what to expect.

I have a customer who is a Biologist at U of Utah and he said that there is a study currently on Grizzlies in Y-Park. There are a few males who haven't hibernated in a few years due to they are following the wolf pack around and feasting on the kills the wolves make. These bears are eating 12 months a year and not loosing the weight during winter. I haven't read this so I don't have details, but it's definitely throwing the bears balance out of wack.

Just another reason to get rid of the wolves.

 

[MT rydn]

wolves and lake trout

I can just see it now, eventually the wolf saga like the Yellowstone Lake lake trout/cutthroat issue? - Who "introduced" Lake Trout? Now they need to remove them to save the few remaining Cutthroats. Wolf introduction just one more brilliant idea..... but I do like a good baked lake trout and like the fact you cannot throw them back in so have to 'harvest' them! Will we see that with wolves eventually?

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

I can just see it now, eventually the wolf saga like the Yellowstone Lake lake trout/cutthroat issue? - Who "introduced" Lake Trout? Now they need to remove them to save the few remaining Cutthroats. Wolf introduction just one more brilliant idea..... but I do like a good baked lake trout and like the fact you cannot throw them back in so have to 'harvest' them! Will we see that with wolves eventually?

Uh yeah Idaho has a season on them already and I have a tag for one. Its just a matter of time before they do something stupid like introduce the armadillo and possum to West Yellowstone.

I went hunting today after work and all I saw in the thick timber was few elk tracks and WOLF tracks. I think there is more wolves out there then the game wardens know about.

 

[motojunkie101]

My parents went hunting in the St. Joe for a week. we used to spend 3+ weeks a year there for the full elk season. During the week they were there they said they saw a few cows and calves, no bulls, and had wolves howling in a couple different drainage's they were in.

My dad said there just wasn't any elk this year, and pulled camp because it just wasn't worth the time. He ended up getting his bull yesterday closer to home in North Idaho where we aren't seeing as much wolf traffic yet.

 

[ARMYSLEDER]

My parents went hunting in the St. Joe for a week. we used to spend 3+ weeks a year there for the full elk season. During the week they were there they said they saw a few cows and calves, no bulls, and had wolves howling in a couple different drainage's they were in.

My dad said there just wasn't any elk this year, and pulled camp because it just wasn't worth the time. He ended up getting his bull yesterday closer to home in North Idaho where we aren't seeing as much wolf traffic yet.

I agree, where there is usually alot of signs of big game around here is not so much due to wolves. I mean seriously what idiot thought that wolves would be good? I just dont get it.