Wolves removed from Endangered Species list

[Motley Doo]

Yup, most people only see them in movies, have never seen the wake of carnage a pack of wolves can leave behind. They are killers, but do not kill to eat, just to kill. I take it back, the other day I saw my FIRST fully eaten dear killed by wolves, probably the amount of snow this year forcing them to eat while they can, but most kill, then leave. Mtn_extreme's video is a good representation of what they ACTUALLY do, someone needs to show these environmentalists that slide show!

 

[Ollie]

again, not being as dick, but isn't that natural selection. too many elk = more wolves. the wolves eat the elk, thus not enough elk for that many wolves, and they begin to die off, thus allwoing more elk. it's a natural cycle. like global warming and cooling, and i know where most you stand on that one, so i don't really see the difference here. now if they are starting to attack people in towns or livestock, that's a whole different story

Natural selection isn't working. The enviro's and the government as well as human intrusion have made the process with big game not really possible. Wolves can travel a LONG distance in search of food. They will cross paths with humans LONG before they starve to death. Starving to death is the only way natural selection will work.

Take Estes Park here in colorado. Everyone loves the elk. They are everywhere. They can be found all over town. Well guess what. There is too many of them. There is no way to use natural selection to control the herds because they are too interwoven with humans and human habitation. There was a proposal to introduce wolves to try and control the population. They decided to try to thin the heards with hunters. The enviro's sued. So the town decided to try and thin the herds with snipers firing at night. Haven't heard what the final decision was.

What happens when the wolf packs grow to the point where there arn't enough Elk to feed em?? They aren't going to just say, oh well, time to move on. They will find a source of food.

A wolf is a BIG animal. If you have never seen one up close. Find a nice big dog. Say in the 200lb range. Now wrestle with him and imagine that he is not playing. Imagine that there are 5-10 of them and they are trying to eat you.

wolf packs can grow pretty rapidly when the food supply is good. In just 15 years they have gone from the brink of extention to being delisted. They have been spotted as far south as northern colorado.

To stay fiable, they have to be controled. If left uncontrolled there will be huge repurcussions in the farming comunities as well as back country people such as ourselves. You may find it too dangerous to go into some areas because of the wolves.

 

[mOdD]

Natural selection isn't working. The enviro's and the government as well as human intrusion have made the process with big game not really possible. Wolves can travel a LONG distance in search of food. They will cross paths with humans LONG before they starve to death. Starving to death is the only way natural selection will work.

Take Estes Park here in colorado. Everyone loves the elk. They are everywhere. They can be found all over town. Well guess what. There is too many of them. There is no way to use natural selection to control the herds because they are too interwoven with humans and human habitation. There was a proposal to introduce wolves to try and control the population. They decided to try to thin the heards with hunters. The enviro's sued. So the town decided to try and thin the herds with snipers firing at night. Haven't heard what the final decision was.

What happens when the wolf packs grow to the point where there arn't enough Elk to feed em?? They aren't going to just say, oh well, time to move on. They will find a source of food.

A wolf is a BIG animal. If you have never seen one up close. Find a nice big dog. Say in the 200lb range. Now wrestle with him and imagine that he is not playing. Imagine that there are 5-10 of them and they are trying to eat you.

wolf packs can grow pretty rapidly when the food supply is good. In just 15 years they have gone from the brink of extention to being delisted. They have been spotted as far south as northern colorado.

To stay fiable, they have to be controled. If left uncontrolled there will be huge repurcussions in the farming comunities as well as back country people such as ourselves. You may find it too dangerous to go into some areas because of the wolves.

When have you gotten close enough to a wolf to be scared? I have spent ALOT of time in the bush and when I have seen a wolf which is rare they run so fast away you can hardly see them.
Some of you people make it sounds like wolves are a bred human killing machine gimmme a fawking break!

 

[mtn_extreme]

"They all say, and please dont take this wrong, I am just ranting, that wildlife belongs to ALL of the public. But yet, I have never see the public pay a pasture bill to feed their wildlife, to fix the fence, ect. I wonder how many cows I truely could run if I had no elk or deer...."

In Idaho the landowner is payed for crop reimbursment through state funds collected from the license and tag fees of the sportsmen. And it is quite fair to the point that some landowners are taking advantage of it.

"When have you gotten close enough to a wolf to be scared? I have spent ALOT of time in the bush and when I have seen a wolf which is rare they run so fast away you can hardly see them.
Some of you people make it sounds like wolves are a bred human killing machine gimmme a fawking break!"


Aparently you have not been hunting in the woods during archery season, armed only with a bow and arrow, and had a pack of 6 wolves come running up and circle you and pace around you only to finally be run off by the screaming and hollaring of a crazed hunter scared shi+less! I now pack a pistol, so don't give me the "gimmme a fuwking break" thing until YOU have!!!

 

[Nate]

When have you gotten close enough to a wolf to be scared? I have spent ALOT of time in the bush and when I have seen a wolf which is rare they run so fast away you can hardly see them.
Some of you people make it sounds like wolves are a bred human killing machine gimmme a fawking break!

Canadian wolves must be like the canadian military

 

[Mayfly]

Curious as to how many humans have been killed by wolfs in the last hundred years?
Nice comment there Nate...

 

[mod03rmk800]

probable not very many people killed by them in the last 100 years. never will know exact numbers as I think the trappers took care of a lot by then. I'll bet the number was higher in the 1700-1800 though.
All as I know is I have come very close to black bear,grizzly, and 2 wolves with all but the black running away immediately, the black bear stood on his hind legs which to me seemed like eternity 15 ft from each other, probably @10 seconds.
I know a lot of montana people that rely on venison for there food and unchecked predators impact those numbers.
I could care less if people hunt wolfs or grizzlies but I sure as heck don't want to have to debate with myself whether the predator is sizing me up or gonna stalk me a while sizing me or just gonna go for dinner at the local campground where little suzy may be playing before I shoot and suffer confiscation of my gun,truck and hunting privileges plus thousands of dollars in fines.
So I guess I am one of those boo hooer non rancher types as buck50 says, but I am the top of the food chain and enjoy the outdoors and if Jeffry dalmer or a predator is in my company BOOM!!
However little suzy is on her own unless buck50 will come to her rescue, or stand in for her.
Not trying to sound like a d***.

 

[FIII_Mtn]

SSS

Or just SS. Works either way.

 

[hilinerider]

ditto on that ^^^^

 

[Gromit]

Canadian wolves must be like the canadian military

And our Canadian wolves would be polite while chewing your a$$ off..."Pass the dijon mustard please. This guy would taste great with a little poutine, a Kokanee and a side of back bacon."

 

[Nate]

And our Canadian wolves would be polite while chewing your a$$ off..."Pass the dijon mustard please. This guy would taste great with a little poutine, a Kokanee and a side of back bacon."

Ill bring the kokanee, its cheaper down here than up thar and its brewed in your country What is this world comming to?

 

[sldgy]

Ill bring the kokanee, its cheaper down here than up thar and its brewed in your country What is this world comming to?

I'll bring the music!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riVpDr2_5q0

 

[Gromit]

I'll bring the music!

Sounds like our politicians up here...standing by the hole and howling...heheh

Sorry for hijacking this thread.

 

[buck50]

Canadian wolves must be like the canadian military

yep, mean azz sum beotchs

 

[buck50]

probable not very many people killed by them in the last 100 years. never will know exact numbers as I think the trappers took care of a lot by then. I'll bet the number was higher in the 1700-1800 though.
All as I know is I have come very close to black bear,grizzly, and 2 wolves with all but the black running away immediately, the black bear stood on his hind legs which to me seemed like eternity 15 ft from each other, probably @10 seconds.
I know a lot of montana people that rely on venison for there food and unchecked predators impact those numbers.
I could care less if people hunt wolfs or grizzlies but I sure as heck don't want to have to debate with myself whether the predator is sizing me up or gonna stalk me a while sizing me or just gonna go for dinner at the local campground where little suzy may be playing before I shoot and suffer confiscation of my gun,truck and hunting privileges plus thousands of dollars in fines.
So I guess I am one of those boo hooer non rancher types as buck50 says, but I am the top of the food chain and enjoy the outdoors and if Jeffry dalmer or a predator is in my company BOOM!!
However little suzy is on her own unless buck50 will come to her rescue, or stand in for her.
Not trying to sound like a d***.

again, you're almost making my point. if you or someone you see is in danger, blamo, shoot em up. otherwise, if it's just a matter of them eating the deer and elk and you can't find them anymore, it is boo hoo coming from your pie hole. would i shoot one in a campground. most likely. in or around my campsite, more than likely. when i'm out hiking thru their territory and happen to see one, probably not. that's all i'm saying

 

[buck50]

and yes, i have seen enough wolves up close in the wild to be scared sh!tless!!!!!

 

[Nate]

This thread was hijacked a long time ago and Kokanee is damn near moonshine in this country, what do you guys say when you drink a budlight or something?

Ranchers have been shooting wolves around here forever. Hell ive seen ranchers lean over the hood and bust a bald eagle during lamb season cause its pretty funny the amount of eagles that sit around on the power lines watching these lambs stalking there livestock Alot of ranchers took a massive fine for this in the Kaycee Wy area from G&F, that ended up in a pretty big battle royal quite some years ago between the government officials and the ranchers. Ended up running a Game&Fish official out of the territory, sorta a civil war. I get to sit in the middle of it all. Friends with all of the ranchers, family members in the Game&Fish. So I cant really pick a side, but its making it easier now that the government is willing to do something about this. Its not just about Elk in this area. Its about all live stock. And to these ranchers, there livelyhood. They are not making any money, they are making a living, thats what Ranching is. Its not a huge money making industry, its making a living. So its very easy to understand when there are 4-5 Black Angus cattle layed over in the hills with just a hind leg missing, or the stomach. Or 30 lambs that were killed just for fun, they never even ate anything off of them, they just killed them for the fun. Easy to understand when they go to auction with 40 missing animals from there herd. Thats food on the table, a house payment, truck payment, taxes for land, and college educations. On the G&F side, they are trying to stop the ranchers from killing the wolves and the cougers. is this getting confusing yet? Basically nothing is happening with this problem. The ranchers got paid for the killed livestock, but it was nothing close to what they were worth. And they get no money from there guided hunts, which, well they shouldnt because its a wild animal. So this broke alot of ties in this area when the government wasnt doing anything about the problem except paying the ranchers 25% of what the animal was worth.

Every spring time we brand cattle for ranchers around here in a 200 mile radius. Alot of them know that 2-3% of the cattle that we brand wont make it to market, and thats just predetorial kills.

Alot of these Ranches run guided hunting, I know because I guide for the majority of them and help the G&F out with outta state hunters and such. A guided Elk hunt in this area is $4k-6k, and thats not getting greedy, thats a little less than the Natl. Average. A deer hunt down here for Mule deer runs $2400-$4000. And Wolves ARE killing these animals.

So whats that all boil down to? Money, its all about the money. It always has been. Killing wolves is a money making industry, saves on the herds, mentally easy on livestock, and wild game isnt effected. Money making for G&F because they get government funding and PETA folk give them alot of money to patrol and stop this.

So ya see? Money & Politics Just my .02. Its easier to keep the peace and turn a blind eye to the ranchers and keep in good with the G&F.

Ohh and if your offended I dont really give a shhit. Please come live in this community for 20 years before you voice your opinion to me, I see dead cattle and sheep everytime I go out from predetors. According to G&F of all these predetorial kills, about 24% of them are wolves. That margin grows each year, seems like a problem if your a rancher

i say good day to you <--moonshine

 

[buck50]

This thread was hijacked a long time ago and Kokanee is damn near moonshine in this country, what do you guys say when you drink a budlight or something?

Ranchers have been shooting wolves around here forever. Hell ive seen ranchers lean over the hood and bust a bald eagle during lamb season cause its pretty funny the amount of eagles that sit around on the power lines watching these lambs stalking there livestock Alot of ranchers took a massive fine for this in the Kaycee Wy area from G&F, that ended up in a pretty big battle royal quite some years ago between the government officials and the ranchers. Ended up running a Game&Fish official out of the territory, sorta a civil war. I get to sit in the middle of it all. Friends with all of the ranchers, family members in the Game&Fish. So I cant really pick a side, but its making it easier now that the government is willing to do something about this. Its not just about Elk in this area. Its about all live stock. And to these ranchers, there livelyhood. They are not making any money, they are making a living, thats what Ranching is. Its not a huge money making industry, its making a living. So its very easy to understand when there are 4-5 Black Angus cattle layed over in the hills with just a hind leg missing, or the stomach. Or 30 lambs that were killed just for fun, they never even ate anything off of them, they just killed them for the fun. Easy to understand when they go to auction with 40 missing animals from there herd. Thats food on the table, a house payment, truck payment, taxes for land, and college educations. On the G&F side, they are trying to stop the ranchers from killing the wolves and the cougers. is this getting confusing yet? Basically nothing is happening with this problem. The ranchers got paid for the killed livestock, but it was nothing close to what they were worth. And they get no money from there guided hunts, which, well they shouldnt because its a wild animal. So this broke alot of ties in this area when the government wasnt doing anything about the problem except paying the ranchers 25% of what the animal was worth.

Every spring time we brand cattle for ranchers around here in a 200 mile radius. Alot of them know that 2-3% of the cattle that we brand wont make it to market, and thats just predetorial kills.

Alot of these Ranches run guided hunting, I know because I guide for the majority of them and help the G&F out with outta state hunters and such. A guided Elk hunt in this area is $4k-6k, and thats not getting greedy, thats a little less than the Natl. Average. A deer hunt down here for Mule deer runs $2400-$4000. And Wolves ARE killing these animals.

So whats that all boil down to? Money, its all about the money. It always has been. Killing wolves is a money making industry, saves on the herds, mentally easy on livestock, and wild game isnt effected. Money making for G&F because they get government funding and PETA folk give them alot of money to patrol and stop this.

So ya see? Money & Politics Just my .02. Its easier to keep the peace and turn a blind eye to the ranchers and keep in good with the G&F.

Ohh and if your offended I dont really give a shhit. Please come live in this community for 20 years before you voice your opinion to me, I see dead cattle and sheep everytime I go out from predetors. According to G&F of all these predetorial kills, about 24% of them are wolves. That margin grows each year, seems like a problem if your a rancher

i say good day to you <--moonshine

very good post, and finally some truth. MONEY. i can totally see the ranchers point of view, as i've said all along. i really don't have a problem with culling the wolves a bit, but some on here seem h3ll bent on totally destroying them, just for sh1ts and giggles, ie buddy that likes to run over coyotes. have i shot coyotes, yep, would i shoot wolves threatening my family or my herd, yep

 

[mtn_extreme]

Wolves just took out a pet German Shepard on the outskirts of the town of Centerville here in Idaho yesterday. Townsfolks are feeling pretty uneasy!

Buck50,

And why do you feel there is a need to let the over population of wolves(due to federal protection) desimate the ungulate population to the point of extinction thus causing starvation of the wolf population, to bring the numbers of both species to a natural existance? If management can reduce the number of wolves to the point that the existing food source can support the existance, why not take the steps now instead of forcing all other species to fight back to a recovery state.
Idaho does not have the vast expance of wilderness land that Canada has and can only support a certain amount of seclusion for the wolf to roam freely so why do you take offense to managing them with a hunting season? I am sure you can go shoot a wolf up there so whay can we not do the same?

You do not know the situation down here yet you take a negative stance to management???? Personally, I would prefer you mind your own business! It is people such as yourself that forced this preditor on those of us that didn't want it in the first place. Now we have to deal with it, not you!

 

[mtn_extreme]

And a Nate says:

Alot of Idaho revenue is from Sportsmen that visit our state to hunt. Without the quality of hunting our reputation has created to bring this income in, economically we would suffer as well. Money lost.