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snowmobiler
Well-known member
you wont get any thank you's for that one.LOL
Why are 2 stroke 800cc motors so unreliable?
- Thread starter TIM
- Start date
To the OP, I've always been told and gone by the rule of a new top end every 1300-1500 miles. Maybe you should try it and see what that does for you.
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
For sure some are better than others...didn't mean to give the impression I don't believe that. Although I kinda see trying to pick the most trouble-free 2-stroke mountain sled as trying to pick the healthiest McDonalds combo. Ya some are better than others...
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GRAVITYSUCKS
New member
Big difference between flatland and mountain miles also. Not picking a fight, just saying.
Polaris and Skidoo = pistons and cranks. The XM is TBD. Each brand has some great attributes. Motor longevity is not one of them for Polaris or Skidoo.
Cat engine with the polaris chassis and clutch... that'd be cool
Jaynelson hit the nail on the head. Name another mass produced, resonably priced engine that makes the same hp to displacement ratio and that lasts a long time. Well that and the severe conditions these engines are operated in.
Poo does have a turd though. My '12 Pro barely broke in shakes/vibrates as much at idle as my M1000 did. Waaaaay more than my old 800 Gen 2 or M7 and that aint right. I can hop on any other 800 form the last 10-12years and none of them vibrate like a 800 Pro motor.
The other factor is luck of the draw which I attribute to manufacturing tolerances. Just like your typical car engine that is designed to go 150-200k mayb before giving up the ghost, some go longer, some much less......manufacturing tolerances (especially in Polaris' case). I had a 01 Poo 800 that I sold with over 3000mi on it, engine ran like a champ, never been opened up. Guy who bought it from me was still riding it 2 yrs later, hadn't opened up the engine. I got lucky as these were the ones with the bad pto crank bearing castings that shelled out pto bearings.
Poo does have a turd though. My '12 Pro barely broke in shakes/vibrates as much at idle as my M1000 did. Waaaaay more than my old 800 Gen 2 or M7 and that aint right. I can hop on any other 800 form the last 10-12years and none of them vibrate like a 800 Pro motor.
The other factor is luck of the draw which I attribute to manufacturing tolerances. Just like your typical car engine that is designed to go 150-200k mayb before giving up the ghost, some go longer, some much less......manufacturing tolerances (especially in Polaris' case). I had a 01 Poo 800 that I sold with over 3000mi on it, engine ran like a champ, never been opened up. Guy who bought it from me was still riding it 2 yrs later, hadn't opened up the engine. I got lucky as these were the ones with the bad pto crank bearing castings that shelled out pto bearings.
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snowmobiler
Well-known member
if you build the same unreliable turd engine year after year.then some brands must be thinking ,why fix it.broken parts = more profit.
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INDEEP
Well-known member
"Name another mass produced, resonably priced engine that makes the same hp to displacement ratio and that lasts a long time. Well that and the severe conditions these engines are operated in."
The 800 Etec's, Suzuki 800's, Yamaha 700's and Gen II 700's all proved to be very reliable. I don't buy the theory that we're getting soooo much power out of a small package that reliability can't be obtained. Because your manufacturer can't do it doesn't mean it's not getting done.
The 800 Etec's, Suzuki 800's, Yamaha 700's and Gen II 700's all proved to be very reliable. I don't buy the theory that we're getting soooo much power out of a small package that reliability can't be obtained. Because your manufacturer can't do it doesn't mean it's not getting done.
Im with Jaynelson on this one a 2 stroke engine the size of a lunch box putting out more power than the average 4 cyl car.These are ecentially race engines.I have only ever blown up one sled and that was my 2002 Skidoo highmark 800.I had good luck with my 09 D800 and put 1600 trouble free miles on that one.I also think that the reason Cat has been more reliable is its old emissions standards on the Suzuki built engine.I see this changing in the future with the tighter emission controls that Doo and Poo have been running.As everyone says have you seen the smoke from a cat 800,cough ,cough.I have never seen such good oil and fuel economy as my 12 pro.I know these sleds are lean and right on the edge from the factory due to tight emissions.I make sure i always warm up my sled and add extra oil to the gas tank and always use non ethanol shell gold 91 octane.I also think its wise to keep these modern 2 strokes under warranty.
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
I don't have a manufacturer, no one pays me to ride $h!t. For what it's worth, my Pro has been the most reliable sled I've ever owned, but I'm not thick enough to think that's been everyone's experience."Name another mass produced, resonably priced engine that makes the same hp to displacement ratio and that lasts a long time. Well that and the severe conditions these engines are operated in."
The 800 Etec's, Suzuki 800's, and Yamaha 700's all proved to be very reliable. I don't buy the theory that we're getting soooo much power out of a small package that reliability can't be obtained. Because your manufacturer can't do it doesn't mean it's not getting done.
What I'm saying is, because these things are strung out, any little thing out of whack and it all goes to hell. One little tear in an intake boot, a little too much air and you can bake a top end in a perfectly good motor just like that. Little too long at one throttle position in a mid-range lean spot on a warm day, ooops. That's why even the "good" one's go down, and the "bad" one's go down a lot more. Something with much less specific output is much more forgiving. If it was easy, why would a huge company like BRP get the pistons/rings all wrong when the Etec first came out? Why couldn't cat have a worthwhile 800 till 800HO? Why can't Pol figure out the CFI once and for all? They've all been building these things for years, right? It's because they ARE high strung little motors. Like I said in the 1st place....that is the general, non-technical, non-brand specific answer. I'm sure an engine builder could tell us the exact pros/cons to each motor and the math behind it.
Not saying there's no room for improvement either. But compare it to, say, an ATV....you get a LOT more engine tech and performance for about the same $$....so (as always) there is a financial component to everything as well.
BTW, I honestly believe you could edit out a lot of the motor failures by replacing top-ends on interval (on all brands, poo would benefit the most currently), but most people can't be bothered and so it is what it is.
This is an interesting thread tho;
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=344083
Lots of miles on highly modified and boosted motors. 2-stroke 800, by comparison, is like trying to pick what fart smells best.
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2014 Arcticcat motors are gonna be made by Yamaha
I haven't tried to follow what Cat is going to do, but seems to me if Yamaha is going to start making motors for Cat, it may be a little like having a fox guard the henhouse.
I said it in an earlier post on this thread and I'll say it again for those that missed it - My 99 Summit X 670 was putting out nearly the same HP per litre as the new 800's and when I sold that sled it had over 5,000 trouble free miles on the engine, not to mention very very minimal clutch work ($100?).
Also, of people having earlier than expected engine trouble, I wonder how many did break-in according to manual and how many "rode it like you stole it". Not saying which is better, but curious if there is a correlation.
I said it in an earlier post on this thread and I'll say it again for those that missed it - My 99 Summit X 670 was putting out nearly the same HP per litre as the new 800's and when I sold that sled it had over 5,000 trouble free miles on the engine, not to mention very very minimal clutch work ($100?).
Also, of people having earlier than expected engine trouble, I wonder how many did break-in according to manual and how many "rode it like you stole it". Not saying which is better, but curious if there is a correlation.
the 7000 series has the nytro motor. that's it.
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X2Freeride
Well-known member
Think about it from this perspective for a second...
What if they build them this way on purpose? Just so they can sell replacement parts to make more money. I have to think based on the history of the 800 cfi this at least some what has to be true.
Take Polaris for example. I think most can agree Polaris builds a great chassis.
People are willing to buy a sled with an anemic engine basically just for this chassis.
What if they build them this way on purpose? Just so they can sell replacement parts to make more money. I have to think based on the history of the 800 cfi this at least some what has to be true.
Take Polaris for example. I think most can agree Polaris builds a great chassis.
People are willing to buy a sled with an anemic engine basically just for this chassis.
WRONG
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Jaynelson
Well-known member
Exactly....so did the same company completely forget how to build motors when they built the 07 800r? Doubtful....they just got one little item not quite right, and that was all it took to make an unreliable motor. Once they figured it out, the 800r was pretty solid actually. If it would have been in a less stressed motor in a less stressed application, that original centre crank bearing might have been "good enough" and no one would be the wiser
