Whistler - Pemberton 08-09 official report
- Thread starter RGM
- Start date
Once the Upper Lillooet FSR melts out to around Meager Creek the hut is reachable in a day on foot. I'm planning go there for the May long weekend. As you suggested, mid winter access is long. Some parties fly in to the hut for a week of skiing, then fly out. A VOC group was planning ski in over the Christmas Holidays (2 days in, 1 day out), but the avalanche conditions were poor so the trip was cancelled.
I do agree with your unstated point that it's dumb to have non-motorized zones around huts that barely get used. As I said before, there's a lot of ways that this zoning plan could be improved.
J
jonnyk
Member
agreed!
I doubt anyone's going to strictly enforce the Harrison area and I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to follow that rule.
To start off, on most pow days, people aren't going to have nearly enough gas to make it there and back and there's more than enough terrain to keep you busy.
That being said, on weeks that it is set up I don't see the harm in sledders going to tour around there. If the snow conditions are such that sledders can get back there, I doubt the skiing would be all that great.
I'm still dumbfounded on the whole callaghan thing. Sproatt makes some "logical" sense to have signs to keep people out of the watershed, but some people aren't that bright to stay away. I think myself and most would be more than stoked to trade sproatt access for callaghan, too bad canadian snowmobiles is all up in there.
I doubt anyone's going to strictly enforce the Harrison area and I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to follow that rule.
To start off, on most pow days, people aren't going to have nearly enough gas to make it there and back and there's more than enough terrain to keep you busy.
That being said, on weeks that it is set up I don't see the harm in sledders going to tour around there. If the snow conditions are such that sledders can get back there, I doubt the skiing would be all that great.
I'm still dumbfounded on the whole callaghan thing. Sproatt makes some "logical" sense to have signs to keep people out of the watershed, but some people aren't that bright to stay away. I think myself and most would be more than stoked to trade sproatt access for callaghan, too bad canadian snowmobiles is all up in there.
A
ayup
Member
Regardless of designation, barely anyone goes to Harrison by sled, ski or heli in the winter, it's a long way back and the shortish route is a very technical sled with difficult route finding. As far as I know, and as Scott said, most skiers heli in and out of the hut - it's certainly no purist, self-propelled, backcountry zone.
It's going to be a tough winter in 09/10 for sledders and sled skiers wanting to play in the Sea To Sky corridor and beyond - lots of closures, road checks on the highway etc between the city and clown town. The noose is getting tighter!
It's going to be a tough winter in 09/10 for sledders and sled skiers wanting to play in the Sea To Sky corridor and beyond - lots of closures, road checks on the highway etc between the city and clown town. The noose is getting tighter!
Scott....you seem to be well versed on the closure topic.
I handed out over 1000 letters last fall at the Vancouver and Puyallup snowmobile shows and asked people to sign them and send in to Tracy Ronmark, Planning Officer Land and Resource Management Plan, The Honourable Stan Hagen Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts and The Honourable Pat Bell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.
The proposed Sea-to-Sky Region LRMP does not fairly represent the local residents, clubs and business. Our comments put forward during the public input process for the Plan have been ignored.
I do not agree with the proposed prohibitions to motorized access to the backcountry. They conflict with historical uses, and provide benefit primarily to a non-resident minority of backcountry users.
I also feel that the proposed plan will have a negative impact on the local economy. Motorized backcountry use is a significant factor in the local economy. The restriction in areas where one can enjoy motorized backcountry recreation will hurt an already struggling local economy in the Pemberton area.
I request that the Plan not proceed further: until an economic impact assessment is undertaken to determine what impact there will be on the local economy as a result of the Plan, and until the plan is revised to fairly represent the desires of the local residents, clubs and businesses.
I am not sure how many people actually signed them and sent them in, but I for one, did not receive any feedback to date.
In your honest opinion, what do you think the chances are of getting an access route through Callaghan Valley re-opened again? Would "we" (individuals and club members) be wasting our time trying to make this happen?
I handed out over 1000 letters last fall at the Vancouver and Puyallup snowmobile shows and asked people to sign them and send in to Tracy Ronmark, Planning Officer Land and Resource Management Plan, The Honourable Stan Hagen Minister of Tourism, Sports and the Arts and The Honourable Pat Bell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.
The proposed Sea-to-Sky Region LRMP does not fairly represent the local residents, clubs and business. Our comments put forward during the public input process for the Plan have been ignored.
I do not agree with the proposed prohibitions to motorized access to the backcountry. They conflict with historical uses, and provide benefit primarily to a non-resident minority of backcountry users.
I also feel that the proposed plan will have a negative impact on the local economy. Motorized backcountry use is a significant factor in the local economy. The restriction in areas where one can enjoy motorized backcountry recreation will hurt an already struggling local economy in the Pemberton area.
I request that the Plan not proceed further: until an economic impact assessment is undertaken to determine what impact there will be on the local economy as a result of the Plan, and until the plan is revised to fairly represent the desires of the local residents, clubs and businesses.
I am not sure how many people actually signed them and sent them in, but I for one, did not receive any feedback to date.
In your honest opinion, what do you think the chances are of getting an access route through Callaghan Valley re-opened again? Would "we" (individuals and club members) be wasting our time trying to make this happen?
R
RGM
Well-known member
Backcountry skiing/boarding has doubled in the last few years. The reason, sled access. Skiing and sleds do mix for 98% of the backcountry skiers. For the other 2%, stay in the park. Harrison Hut has been used only ONCE this season so far by backcontry skiers that hike up Mad horse creek in November. The sled community has never signed off on the Backcountry accord as it was unacceptable to us.
S
SummerSucks10
New member
“Some parties fly in to the hut”
This would be with peddled powered aircraft since it is a “non-motorized zone”, or is it only “non-motorized” when convenient to the back country skiers?
I do abide to rules and regulations regarding closed areas. I don’t think we are helping any cause by breaking rules, but I find the hypocrisy of some groups humorous (see previous thread on “environmentally friendly electric ski lifts”).
K.
This would be with peddled powered aircraft since it is a “non-motorized zone”, or is it only “non-motorized” when convenient to the back country skiers?
I do abide to rules and regulations regarding closed areas. I don’t think we are helping any cause by breaking rules, but I find the hypocrisy of some groups humorous (see previous thread on “environmentally friendly electric ski lifts”).
K.
Perhaps in Brandywine and Rutherford 98% of skiers are using snowmobiles, but there are lots of other areas outside the park where self propelled skiers outnumber snowmobile skiers throughout the winter. For example Cloudburst, Brew, Rainbow, Sproatt, Phelix. Self propelled skiers prefer to stay away from snowmobiles, which is why no one goes to the popular snowmobile destinations. Brandywine meadows used to be a popular trip with the self propelled crowd, but not anymore. This makes it really hard to estimate the number of people in each user group based on casual observations.
An SFU proffessor did a recreation study last winter to look at the number of users from all the different users groups, but the results aren't available yet. I think it will be pretty interesting.
The report will be interesting. This is hyprocrisy at its finest. I've been snowmobiling in the entire area for 15 years and have seen hundreds of sledders in all areas. I can count on one hand the number of skiers I've come across using non motorized means to access . The same can be said about wildlife. Very few tracks or signs of life. Even the heli sliers use choppers that thunder in the valleys and can be heard for miles. When a snowmobile goes over the first hill out of sight you don't even know its there. What has the government done to support our sport. One thing, take our areas away. They built a multi million dollar legacy for a small percentage of users with the new cross country track in Callaghan and we lost another area. I dropped below the snow cat yesterday and looked at the out of bounds sign and could not believe the size of area the skiers have laid claim too. I want to get along and share, this is not sharing and you are (GOVT and OTHERS) creating a conflict.
A
ayup
Member
Come on Scott, you know full well that the number of self-propelled skiers in those areas are tiny. Most are over on the other side of the highway in the park. Regardless of designation, Cloudburst will never see sleds (terrain issues) and barely sees ski-tourers without sleds in mid-winter when there's snow to H99 and the Squamish Valley. Same goes for Rainbow, most take a heli to the top and do laps before exiting to Whistler. Brew and Phelix, fair enough, but in the grand scheme of things the numbers really are tiny. Let's pretend there were no sleds in Brandywine or on the Ice Cap, how many ski-tourers would actually go there? I suspect, few, because the effort and logistics for the average backcountry skier to play in there are huge. Most tourers are recreational day trippers or happy at the most to hut hop. That's why Cerise is busy on a winter wkend while other drainages off the Duffey are in comparison, almost always empty. I'm all in favour of designated non-motorized areas but it seems they're increasing exponentially compared to the number of self-propelled folk who will actually use them. The S2S backcountry shouldn't just be a personal play area for a tiny handful of lobby savvy Bivouacers and BCMC members who want to get away from other, less capable, backcountry skiers. I guess the SFU prof's study should shed some light but it won't really be representative. Realistically, how many of those q's will have been filled in and returned by post? I sent in mine, did anyone else here?
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I got two of the surveys last winter, both in april. A few friends of mine got them as well.
I'm curious, how many people go sledding at Brandywine, Rutherford or Tricouni on a busy day? Brandywine Meadows (not the ice cap) used to be a popular ski touring destination in the 1980s. I think the BCMC was doing 10 trips a year in there, and that's only 1 club. At the time, I would guess it was probably the #2 destination in the sea to sky (after diamond head) for BC skiing because the terrain is so good and the access is really easy (especially compared to Garibaldi Park). But times change and we all have to adapt. The shift to more day use has been a recent trend as well, which is why more skiers are visiting easily accessible day trip areas like Rainbow, Sproatt and Metal Dome. These areas are a lot easier to day trip than most of Garibaldi Park because of quicker access.
A
ayup
Member
But the number of day use skiers going into areas like Rainbow, Sproatt and Metal Dome are also tiny. Rainbow = heli and some from the Olympic Park trailhead, Sproatt might see a handful each winter at G&T Lakes, and Metal Dome, barely a few parties even with the now easy access on the N side from the new Olympic Park road. The majority go to the parks and always will even if there are some other areas that are easier to get into because there are facilities...parking, huts, marker wands etc plus you can't underestimate the follow the herd mentality.
If sledders are legislated out of more backcountry zones, it won't lead to a marked increase in self-propelled skiers in those areas because the majority either don't have the knowledge, aren't capable or don't want to haul camping gear up 15kms plus drainages in mid-winter. It'll only benefit a tiny handful of hard mountain men, and commercial operators, who have an elitist agenda.
Lastly, IMO, skiing in Brandywine Meadows is far from fantastic unless you're into hucking cliffs for photo ops. You'd have to be nuts to want to skin a dozen k's up the road for that terrain. Skiers have different objectives now than they did in the 80's....it's all about maximizing pow turns and / or freestyle, not spending ages on the skinny ski up and down. That's why lots are buying sleds
If sledders are legislated out of more backcountry zones, it won't lead to a marked increase in self-propelled skiers in those areas because the majority either don't have the knowledge, aren't capable or don't want to haul camping gear up 15kms plus drainages in mid-winter. It'll only benefit a tiny handful of hard mountain men, and commercial operators, who have an elitist agenda.
Lastly, IMO, skiing in Brandywine Meadows is far from fantastic unless you're into hucking cliffs for photo ops. You'd have to be nuts to want to skin a dozen k's up the road for that terrain. Skiers have different objectives now than they did in the 80's....it's all about maximizing pow turns and / or freestyle, not spending ages on the skinny ski up and down. That's why lots are buying sleds
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4" of Fresh and calling for another 15 CM (6 inches) tonight and Callaghan is open for riding as of Friday!
I have crossed the lake in June when it was mostly open water so there should be no problems this weekend. (Just don't get your belt wet and wear a life jacket)
Tonight..Snow.
Alpine low minus 4.
Snowfall accumulation 10 to 15 cm.
Thursday..Cloudy with sunny periods.
Friday.. Sunny.
I have crossed the lake in June when it was mostly open water so there should be no problems this weekend. (Just don't get your belt wet and wear a life jacket)
Tonight..Snow.
Alpine low minus 4.
Snowfall accumulation 10 to 15 cm.
Thursday..Cloudy with sunny periods.
Friday.. Sunny.
G
glaciertim
Member
Rutherford access
Can anyone advise if we can still make it to the icecap via Rutherford? What is the road like?
Can anyone advise if we can still make it to the icecap via Rutherford? What is the road like?
R
RGM
Well-known member
Was up Callaghan yesterday for the last ride of the season with newtrout and blindman and Bruce. You could drive right to the snow line , the lake was a little iffy so we came out through Callaghan country which was a bit of an ordeal. Great spring snow up top and lots of huge avys. The creeks are pumping
C
cragar
New member
surfs up!
just like to go up for some cruising around and some sun... went jun 29th one year and hung out at the toilet bowl,drank beer and stayed in the ice cave like encino man... pretty good time, but the ridges were starting to become too large to rock crawl through. was beach shorts and wife beaters !unloaded at the treeline to rental bowl?gauntlet s curve valley area.got an alright little toyota, can go in anywhere...long days are gooood times!
just like to go up for some cruising around and some sun... went jun 29th one year and hung out at the toilet bowl,drank beer and stayed in the ice cave like encino man... pretty good time, but the ridges were starting to become too large to rock crawl through. was beach shorts and wife beaters !unloaded at the treeline to rental bowl?gauntlet s curve valley area.got an alright little toyota, can go in anywhere...long days are gooood times!
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