Should I upgrade my sled? Newb questions the value of a modern chassis...

[MTsled3]

One thing that might help a lot would be to find the first 3 Schooled videos with Chris Burandt and Bret Rasmussen. Watch them once, then try the new techniques on your next ride, then watch them again to see how you can improve.

I grew up riding with my dad and uncles on older sleds, and they all had that old school riding style (even still kinda do to this day) where you have to crank your mountain bar to get the sled on edge, and you put left hand throttles and super tall bar risers on because those old tanks needed the help. So I learned like that, mountain bar, left hand throttle, and knees on the seat.

When I was in college, I went from a 2003 800 RMK to a 2012 Pro-RMK and it was a whole new world to ride that thing, but I kinda had to re-learn to ride. Those Schooled videos were great to teach me the techniques that came with the newer style sleds, as I didn't have anyone to teach me in person. Now I'm the one teaching the old guys the newer riding styles as they've gotten into new machines.

As for getting a newer sled, I'd agree with most who say to shoot for an Axys or 2018+ Cat for the future.

I know you said no Doo but I also think the XM Chassis sleds are great, especially if you get a 2015 or 2016 T3 package machine. I've had a couple years now riding a few xm sleds back to back with my wife's 2020 Summit Expert, and I honestly think the xm handles better and is overall easier to ride than the Gen 4, and I have played with setup on that sled more than I have on every other sled I've owned combined.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Front track shock needs to be cranked up.
1in or so of threads below the jam nut.
If ur trying to side hill slopes 15-20°, those are harder than 30-40°
20-30° u should be able to stand in the neutral position and counter steer to sidehill. Somewhere between 30-40° and maybe even a touch below 30°, u will need to be wrong foot forward or at least both feet on one side. 40°+ is getting pretty steep, and u will be hanging off the one side and leaning over the handlebars trying to prevent washout.

I put 4,000 miles on my 09, at 170 lbs, i tossed that sled around pretty easy sidehilling. I could side hill hard crusty snow, and it stuck to the hillside with a 2.25 powerclaw.


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OK, you got me curious. Just went out to the trailer and took another look at the FTS. Looks like it needs to go up a bit...not knowing the spring rate...probably stock.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Grain of salt…but you ever do the rider sag set up thing? That shock looks pretty much unloaded? There’s a really good video on you tube on the rider sag shock thing . If you haven’t just search it and it’ll come up. Takes a hour or two but fun and then you can have a good start point. I have the opposite problem , mine wants to pop wheelies and I don’t lol. A good analogy I heard was to think of the front track shock as the center of the teeter totter? Soft is flat hard is fulcrum? I think lol? Hopefully some salty dawg will take ya in! Would be nice to have someone who could actually do it right lol!!! The Rasmussen videos are on you tube now called ,” back to school with Brett Rasmussen.” And dude from alpine Dan…oh man I forget but his videos are really good too. I d love to do a clinic but am nowhere close to ready lol

 

[TurboSportTSi]

One thing that might help a lot would be to find the first 3 Schooled videos with Chris Burandt and Bret Rasmussen. Watch them once, then try the new techniques on your next ride, then watch them again to see how you can improve.

I grew up riding with my dad and uncles on older sleds, and they all had that old school riding style (even still kinda do to this day) where you have to crank your mountain bar to get the sled on edge, and you put left hand throttles and super tall bar risers on because those old tanks needed the help. So I learned like that, mountain bar, left hand throttle, and knees on the seat.

When I was in college, I went from a 2003 800 RMK to a 2012 Pro-RMK and it was a whole new world to ride that thing, but I kinda had to re-learn to ride. Those Schooled videos were great to teach me the techniques that came with the newer style sleds, as I didn't have anyone to teach me in person. Now I'm the one teaching the old guys the newer riding styles as they've gotten into new machines.

As for getting a newer sled, I'd agree with most who say to shoot for an Axys or 2018+ Cat for the future.

I know you said no Doo but I also think the XM Chassis sleds are great, especially if you get a 2015 or 2016 T3 package machine. I've had a couple years now riding a few xm sleds back to back with my wife's 2020 Summit Expert, and I honestly think the xm handles better and is overall easier to ride than the Gen 4, and I have played with setup on that sled more than I have on every other sled I've owned combined.

I'll check out the Schooled videos...have heard of them but never watched them. We've been pretty into the Next Level videos but more instruction and different styles never hurt!

Totally believe what you're saying about re-learning how to ride. There was a thread recently about a guy who is apparently a pretty skilled rider that upgraded sleds and he felt like he didn't know WTH he was doing when he rode it. Too many changes from the sled he had (around mine's vintage, I think) to the new one. Mostly foot position/balance point stuff, but still!

I'm actually open to Doo, but I just don't know what's 'good' about them other than fit & finish. Overall rideability, maybe? I don't see the appeal and they are ugly as sin to me (hey, it matters a little...then again, so is my M8, haha). Lynx is a tad better; other side of the same coin. Anyway, that's all subjective. I care about reliability as #1, agility/technical prowess as #2, and innovation as #3. Same thing with cars - after being into Japanese turbo cars for a long time, I eventually landed on BMW M3s. Never the fastest or most exciting visually, but solid engines and communicative, predictable chassis.

Also, the wife & I have been very much annoyed by her Rev, so I was sort of half joking when I said no Doo. I hear they may have gotten rid of the irritating, ever-present "bick, bick" alarm from the DESS. Having that in another sled would be a dealbreaker. ?


I think the bottom line is that I should go ride as many sleds as I can get my grubby little paws on and only upgrade what I've got when I find something that feels right. The recent sales tactic of snowcheck-only (or mostly) would make me very nervous unless there are few changes from a chassis I've been on and liked.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Grain of salt…but you ever do the rider sag set up thing? That shock looks pretty much unloaded? There’s a really good video on you tube on the rider sag shock thing . If you haven’t just search it and it’ll come up. Takes a hour or two but fun and then you can have a good start point. I have the opposite problem , mine wants to pop wheelies and I don’t lol. A good analogy I heard was to think of the front track shock as the center of the teeter totter? Soft is flat hard is fulcrum? I think lol? Hopefully some salty dawg will take ya in! Would be nice to have someone who could actually do it right lol!!! The Rasmussen videos are on you tube now called ,” back to school with Brett Rasmussen.” And dude from alpine Dan…oh man I forget but his videos are really good too. I d love to do a clinic but am nowhere close to ready lol

We did some basic setup last season, but I should probably revisit. I don't recall there being a good spec out there. I see a lot of 'there should be x number of threads showing' type of stuff or '~2 inches', but nothing real specific. Normally, at least on motorcycles, rider sag is set to something like 30% of total suspension travel. Could be in the manual, actually. Will have to dig one up.

Thanks for the video title update!

 

[summ8rmk]

OK, you got me curious. Just went out to the trailer and took another look at the FTS. Looks like it needs to go up a bit...not knowing the spring rate...probably stock.

Yeah, get 10 threads or so showing below the jamb nut.
That will help lighten the steering and get it to pop up a little easier.


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[summ8rmk]

Arctic Cat Camoplast 162 x 15 x 2.25 Power Claw 80-Duro Track

Arctic Cat 162 x 15 x 2.25 Power Claw 80 Duro Track 2005-2019 M - 2602-168

www.countrycat.com

2.25, but a great price and the correct durometer. You don't want the 85 duro, way to stiff.

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[summ8rmk]

10 Arctic Cat M8 M 800 Track 162 X 15 X 2.25 Power Claw Stock OEM M1000 7331 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 10 Arctic Cat M8 M 800 Track 162 X 15 X 2.25 Power Claw Stock OEM M1000 7331 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

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[TurboSportTSi]

Adjustment made. Will see how she feels this weekend!

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Arctic Cat Camoplast 162 x 15 x 2.25 Power Claw 80-Duro Track

Arctic Cat 162 x 15 x 2.25 Power Claw 80 Duro Track 2005-2019 M - 2602-168

www.countrycat.com

2.25, but a great price and the correct durometer. You don't want the 85 duro, way to stiff.

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Haha, I've had that open in a tab, along with the 2.6 PC ($1,300), 3.0 PC ($1,090!!!), and the 2.5 CE ($800). My wife asked me to please stop talking to her about tracks.

The used one looks great, but it's hard to ignore the 2.25" PC on clearance for $600 new. Would it really make that much of a difference over a 2.25" Challenger? I try to buy once, cry once and am tempted by the 2.5 CE as it seems comparable to the 2.6 PC, but at about 2/3 the price.

Decisions, decisions....

 

[summ8rmk]

Any powerclaw is a huge upgrade over ur current track.
One thing about the 2.25 is that if ur not happy with it, u can sell it for about the same amount u paid for it. The 2.6 will lose 1/3 what u spend.
The 2.6 is a great track. I'm not sure if it's worth twice the price.
Part of me says yes and part says use that money toward an 09-11 skid.

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[TurboSportTSi]

Any powerclaw is a huge upgrade over ur current track.
One thing about the 2.25 is that if ur not happy with it, u can sell it for about the same amount u paid for it. The 2.6 will lose 1/3 what u spend.
The 2.6 is a great track. I'm not sure if it's worth twice the price.
Part of me says yes and part says use that money toward an 09-11 skid.

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Glad to hear that anything is an upgrade...I went out this morning and got very, very stuck, lol. I backed out of a few situations because I was pretty sure I wasn't going to be able to claw through it. It'd be nice to have a better track, especially for days like today when the pow is bumper deep and hip deep or more when trying to maneuver around the sled to dig out! Starting to look at that 3" PC for $1k. ? Probably not a great choice for MOST days around here though.


Update on the FTS change: HUGE difference. I totally get 'that light feeling' that I've read about! When on the gas in powder, I could rock the skis from side to side like an airplane does when they dip their wings. Crazy different. It no longer feels super stable which is nice, but gosh is it ever heavy. Shoulders are beat! Totally sucks on the trail compared to before...it pushes more...but I don't give a rip about that. It's manageable and worth the tradeoff.

Easier to initiate a sidehill, but I don't feel like maintaining an edge was affected. Still can't really sidehill with feet in the normal position (on hills...but I can ride one ski up in the flats); have to be opposite foot forward. Not sure if that is normal on the older sleds. Overall, upping the FTS preload was a big change in the right direction. I might play with it some more, but will ride it a few more times to re-learn the sled before changing anything (other than the 2-wheel kit, which BDX is taking forever to ship).

The only real problems I had today were the darn running boards! I thought my inserts were pretty aggressive, but I had a few times that I either slipped off altogether or slid all the way forward when I was trying to shift weight backward to turn a downhill sidehill back uphill. We had some pretty heavy, wet snow today. Maybe that's a problem for everyone, but the newer running boards I see, especially from Doo, look a million times better.

 

[summ8rmk]

I could literally sit down on the seat and ride one ski for very long distance, on flat ground up to 25° slopes on my 09. And do donuts.

whenever i seen ski-doos struggle, just to be a dick.....[emoji38][emoji28][emoji1787]I would literally sit down and sidehill across the same hillside, multiple times. That 09 was an amazing sled for its day.

The further back u stand on the running boards, the easier it is to initiate and hold a sidehill on shallow slopes.




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[turboless terry]

I could literally sit down on the seat and ride one ski for very long distance, on flat ground up to 25° slopes on my 09. And do donuts.

whenever i seen ski-doos struggle, just to be a dick.....[emoji38][emoji28][emoji1787]I would literally sit down and sidehill across the same hillside, multiple times. That 09 was an amazing sled for its day.

The further back u stand on the running boards, the easier it is to initiate and hold a sidehill on shallow slopes.
The fun was having your buddy follow on his doo and stop right in front of him on a steep sidehill. Watch their skis turn down towards some sh!thole. Then take off laughing.



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[summ8rmk]

Yes!
Stop and go was so easy on cat and polaris, those damn doos struggled so bad on sidehills, but they did climb well!

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[turboless terry]

Polaris was the same but they seemed a little more nose heavy to me. Liked the cat better.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

So...I know this thread has had a bit of scope creep (many thanks for all the guidance!!!), but just to bring some closure, I've decided to keep my sled until something hits the market that seems interesting enough to want to snowcheck. I need to spend some time riding to figure out what type of riding I actually like and get a feel for the different platforms out there. Once my truck is paid off, I'll be more open to a sled payment. Will probably look to snowcheck in early 2025.

In the meantime, I went ahead and ordered a 2.6" PC since it seems like it'll make the biggest difference and will get it installed ASAP. I also realized that the Alt Impact 36" a-arm kit in chromoly is closer to $500 than $1k, so I will probably do that this summer. I had my front FLOATs revalved this past summer and will have the Zero Pro skid shocks done this coming summer. I did not realize at the time that the skid made such a big impact on handling and that the '07 valving was particularly awful. Again, with it being a long term backup sled, I don't mind putting some money into it.

With all the recommendations I've seen for low bars, it got me thinking...when I bought my sled, it had a ~3" riser block on it, which I took off immediately. It dawned on me that the handlebar mounting block I have on my sled is actually an aftermarket riser that was on top of the riser block (see attached). I went ahead and ordered the factory pieces, which should get me another 1-2" lower. Hoping my shoulders will thank me. Might be too low, but we shall see. Hopefully on a good path here and can have a capable, reliable platform to learn on for a couple more years.

 

[summ8rmk]

Narrow front end requires shorter shocks....$$$
Not sure if u can just shorten urs with a 1in spacer?

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[TurboSportTSi]

Narrow front end requires shorter shocks....$$$
Not sure if u can just shorten urs with a 1in spacer?

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Yeah, I think that's where the $1k came from. I was recalling the Ti arms + shortening shocks. Probably around $900-1000 total.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Check out muskoka freeriders new video on you tube. Shows what a great rider can do on a old sled lol. Embarrassing how little I can ride a nice one jeeshh…lol! So somewhere in the middle and a lot of give er and you’ll be ripping!!