That does seem to be the general consensus. The 174/5 sleds are still appealing to me, but I don't see going to a 150 class track at my size & weight, considering where I live. 160 class and up for me!
Should I upgrade my sled? Newb questions the value of a modern chassis...
- Thread starter TurboSportTSi
- Start date
A sled that's easier to ride in the steep has me excited for next season with a newer sled, but I'm a little bummed to know that it's not going to turn me into Dan Adams overnight.
I'll keep gettin' after it on the M until then.I will say that it has been a big improvement over last year just by revalving the shocks for my weight and replacing a broken A-arm bushing. Sidehilling is noticeably easier (I still suck at it) and I can even ride on 1 ski in the flats for a good distance now, which was all but impossible last season. The M8 has proven to be a super stable, predictable platform, just difficult to get over and hold there. Looking forward to keeping it around as a backup/guest sled.
I suppose that's a good reason to put a little cash into it...maybe find a takeoff skid & track...hmmm.
you would love that sled tons of power ,the chassis on the snow ,and stock reliability ,night and day difference from the terrible cay chassis you are riding now
IMO you should keep the M8 for another year or two and hone in your skills. I'm a little biased because I've been riding older sleds for a little while now (08 XP and 05 M7). Get really good on the M8, learn to sidehill, learn to carve, learn to countersteer with ease. By the time you jump on a new one -- which I get to from time to time -- its's not even a learning curve. It's more like, oh this is really much easier to do all the things I already know how to do.
Nothing wrong with riding older sleds. And they are easier to work on. Save your $$ for a couple years and then upgrade. (And definitely don't buy a used, secondhand turbo. Period). My .02 worth.
Nothing wrong with riding older sleds. And they are easier to work on. Save your $$ for a couple years and then upgrade. (And definitely don't buy a used, secondhand turbo. Period). My .02 worth.
I thought you were joking once I read your handle...then I saw your avatar...still confused, lol.
Y'all are really bad at helping me spend my money! ?
I do feel like that's the overall trend of responses though. I'm hoping to develop some halfway decent skills on the M8, then switch to something much newer and be completely amazed.
I sure hope I don't have to work on the M much more than I already have! With the layback engine sunken way down between the frame rails, I wouldn't be looking forward to that! Sort of a bummer with the clamshell type hood giving what appears to be full access...even the intake is a PITA. My kid's old '03 Poo 340 had an upright motor in the same type of packaging and it was super easy to work on. The wife's Rev has the motor basically inside a roll cage, like most newer sleds, but it seems like getting to most things wasn't TOO bad when we rebuilt it, but I suppose that depends on the specific motor and/or chassis.
Thanks for the feedback!
i'm not joking i rode cats for 20 years and the breakdowns and unresolved nagging issues drove me away in 2011
If you can afford a new sled by all means go for it. Riding an older sled is fine but doesn't gain you anything. Anything you need to learn can be done and done easier on a new one. I learned all this stuff on my own riding that stuff because that was all that was available and the learning curve was a lot steeper. No videos or clinics. You had to horse sleds around. Didn't just roll sleds over to get unstuck or you would be doing skidoo aerobics and trading with 2 other guys to get them started. I would kill to have had these sleds 20 years ago. Don't listen to anyone that tells you to ride older sleds to learn on. All that does is put you further behind. Ride the newest thing you can afford and have fun. Less of a learning curve.
You could buy a 15 year old dirtbike and have about as good of time as on a new one. You aren't doing that on a sled.
You could buy a 15 year old dirtbike and have about as good of time as on a new one. You aren't doing that on a sled.
Appreciate the insight. Good analogy with the dirtbike...sleds are so much heavier that I could see small changes making a bigger difference from a rider's perspective.
Riding the newest sled I can afford sounds like good advice. Between 2 trailers and 4 sleds over the past 12 months, I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to upgrade, but I'm thinking next year might be the year. I do want something that takes effort to hustle around, but if I'm not at too much of a disadvantage with what I've got, then I guess I'm good for the moment.
For now, the plan is to do whatever it takes to get as much off trail experience as I can this season...possibly upgrading my track...and re-evaluating when snow-checks open. I was hoping for an intermediate solution before jumping to some badass new sled in a few years, but if the ol' M isn't too outdated, maybe something new and plenty capable is all I need...especially after looking at and buying a bunch of used sleds. I'm more-or-less done with that noise.
I don't know the situation over there but here, due to people backing out of late deliveries last season, there are plenty of new MY -22 sleds available still. And in a month or two, when MY -24 sleds are revealed I'm guessing there might be bargains to be made on remaining new -22s in stock.
To some extent those bargains have started to pop up already, saw the other day an ad offering brand new -22 YamAlpha 800s for , if i remember correctly, something like 2500-3000 USD under last year's sticker price.
To some extent those bargains have started to pop up already, saw the other day an ad offering brand new -22 YamAlpha 800s for , if i remember correctly, something like 2500-3000 USD under last year's sticker price.
I'm in the "ride what you've got for a while" camp, unless you've got a big budget or come across a great deal. You'll find much better deals in the offseason, waiting gives you time to try some different sleds, and you can learn a lot on what you've got. I just rode my "ancient" 600 last weekend. I'd learned some things riding my "new" sled (a '12 Pro RMK), but was surprised at how well that transferred back to the old sled. I could do things that it took me a season of riding the Pro to get comfortable with. I've never rode an M8 like yours, but if people are saying it's not hard to sidehill, then it's not like you're going to wear yourself out and hit a wall. Sleds like my old 600 are a PITA to get on edge in stock form (I've narrowed it and made some other changes that help), and the newer sleds are night and day better, but you're coming from something much closer to my Pro than that.
As for what next, I'd avoid long tracks (17x) and turbo or engine modded sleds. Probably a 163 is the sweet spot for you, but a 155 might be better if you're not in deep stuff much. The trouble with a 17X sled is it's going to want to go straight and be more difficult and frustrating to maneuver; you only want the extra length if you need it, and you don't around here except for a few epic days a year at Cooke. At this stage, a turbo would probably just "help" you get in more trouble, and an aftermarket one could be a ton of headaches. You'll know if that extra power is something you can use after you've rode more, but right now it's not likely you'd even use the extra power. One plug for the AXYS: it's not the easiest to sidehill and carve with, but you can do about anything to it to and make it more playful, more or less "tippy," and so on. If you like working on your own stuff and tweaking things, Polaris is probably where you want to be. Doos tend to be more pull and go, but heavier and harder to work on. Cats have their issues, and the monorail is kind of a love it or hate it thing, from what I gather; others can speak better to that. You can spend days reading up on one particular sled here, so especially if you buy used, do some digging and you'll probably get a good idea as to whether it's a problem child, or not the right thing for you.
One other thing on learning to ride: push yourself, but don't force yourself. Because of the particular conditions, something that came easily one day might seem impossible a week later. Nothing will ruin a day like forcing yourself to work on something that doesn't want to come. The better the snow, the easier it is to hold an edge and make the sled do what you want, up to a point. Also, it's still hard for me to look at terrain and judge what I can do. So, on crusty days, or if you can't seem to hit a sidehill, just move on to doing something more fun and easy, and maybe try it again in a different area. Obviously, you have to challenge yourself to advance, but it's easy to overwhelm and/or wear yourself out. When it clicks, you'll get far more comfortable and make a lot more progress in an hour or two than days of trying to force it.
As for what next, I'd avoid long tracks (17x) and turbo or engine modded sleds. Probably a 163 is the sweet spot for you, but a 155 might be better if you're not in deep stuff much. The trouble with a 17X sled is it's going to want to go straight and be more difficult and frustrating to maneuver; you only want the extra length if you need it, and you don't around here except for a few epic days a year at Cooke. At this stage, a turbo would probably just "help" you get in more trouble, and an aftermarket one could be a ton of headaches. You'll know if that extra power is something you can use after you've rode more, but right now it's not likely you'd even use the extra power. One plug for the AXYS: it's not the easiest to sidehill and carve with, but you can do about anything to it to and make it more playful, more or less "tippy," and so on. If you like working on your own stuff and tweaking things, Polaris is probably where you want to be. Doos tend to be more pull and go, but heavier and harder to work on. Cats have their issues, and the monorail is kind of a love it or hate it thing, from what I gather; others can speak better to that. You can spend days reading up on one particular sled here, so especially if you buy used, do some digging and you'll probably get a good idea as to whether it's a problem child, or not the right thing for you.
One other thing on learning to ride: push yourself, but don't force yourself. Because of the particular conditions, something that came easily one day might seem impossible a week later. Nothing will ruin a day like forcing yourself to work on something that doesn't want to come. The better the snow, the easier it is to hold an edge and make the sled do what you want, up to a point. Also, it's still hard for me to look at terrain and judge what I can do. So, on crusty days, or if you can't seem to hit a sidehill, just move on to doing something more fun and easy, and maybe try it again in a different area. Obviously, you have to challenge yourself to advance, but it's easy to overwhelm and/or wear yourself out. When it clicks, you'll get far more comfortable and make a lot more progress in an hour or two than days of trying to force it.
I currently have a 2017 Mountain Cat 153. My dad has a 2005 M7. Before I had an 06 700 RMK and my dad had a 1998 RMK. My dad's friend has an 05 Summit Rev. I've also ridden for 10 or 15 mins on a friend's 2020 Summit X Expert.
Of the 3 brands of mid 00s sleds, the M series is definitely the best off trail. My 2017 is definitely a step up and is easier to ride than the M series but I feel like I could probably ride about the same terrain. It just takes more effort.
If I were you I'd learn some more on the M before I upgraded. It will sidehill fine with the right technique and a little extra effort and if you screw up and it goes rolling downhill without you into a tree, you'll be glad you did it to a sled worth 3k instead of 13k.
The power claw track was a good upgrade for my dad and he found one on ebay for like $300. If you haven't adjusted your skis to the narrowest position they'll go yet, do that too. That's a free upgrade. You may also play with stiffening the front track shock and softening the ski shocks to make the front feel a little lighter. If you dont like the way the shock adjustment feels you can easily go back.
Ultimately sidehilling just takes practice and getting over the fear of using the throttle, going wrong foot forward, and counter steering to pop you up on edge. Practice on gentle slopes with low consequences where you can be really aggressive with the throttle. My experience with beginners is that they're afraid to give the throttle a firm blip to get it on edge enough to balance.
Of the 3 brands of mid 00s sleds, the M series is definitely the best off trail. My 2017 is definitely a step up and is easier to ride than the M series but I feel like I could probably ride about the same terrain. It just takes more effort.
If I were you I'd learn some more on the M before I upgraded. It will sidehill fine with the right technique and a little extra effort and if you screw up and it goes rolling downhill without you into a tree, you'll be glad you did it to a sled worth 3k instead of 13k.
The power claw track was a good upgrade for my dad and he found one on ebay for like $300. If you haven't adjusted your skis to the narrowest position they'll go yet, do that too. That's a free upgrade. You may also play with stiffening the front track shock and softening the ski shocks to make the front feel a little lighter. If you dont like the way the shock adjustment feels you can easily go back.
Ultimately sidehilling just takes practice and getting over the fear of using the throttle, going wrong foot forward, and counter steering to pop you up on edge. Practice on gentle slopes with low consequences where you can be really aggressive with the throttle. My experience with beginners is that they're afraid to give the throttle a firm blip to get it on edge enough to balance.
J
Jaynelson
Well-known member
An Axys chassis 163 stocker would be an awesome way to get into a modern chassis for reasonable $$. Find a clean low mile one and run it. Yes the chassis is light years better than an M…anyone saying otherwise is sniffing adhesives. Not just better for tree riding/siding hulking, but also on not getting stuck/getting out easy…huge difference.
For a little more $$…2019 and newer on a Pol or Cat and yer laughing.
For a little more $$…2019 and newer on a Pol or Cat and yer laughing.
For a little more $$…2019 and newer on a Pol or Cat and yer laughing. (For not having bought a Doo
I think this might have been a big source of my frustrations last season. The park we generally go to has some steep hills that are always tracked up into oblivion and some shallower slopes that are mostly untouched, which is where I've been practicing sidehilling. I've often wondered if it wasn't steep enough to sidehill easily and maybe that's why I feel like I'm tipping the sled over on its side by the time it gets on edge. Crusty snow just makes that even worse...maybe that's part of the reason why it's been easier this year compared to last. I should probably find somewhere better to learn, but it's hard to have the confidence to go steeper when the shallower hill frequently pulls the ski back on the ground, laughing at my ~240 lb self trying to keep it on edge, and sends the sled downhill. If that were to happen in a steep area with trees, I might end up with a mangled sled....or it would be easier to sidehill...or both, lol.
I can't imagine a person smaller than me sidehilling this thing comfortably, but then again, it might be more technique then strength/leverage.
Definitely plan to play with shock settings a bit the next time I go out. I've heard that Ms have a "light feeling" and that is not at all my impression, so maybe the FTS spring is too soft or something. Skis have been set to narrow since day one, though I think that still puts them at 39". Yikes!
I'd 1000% take a chance on a used PC track for $300! At ~$1,400 or whatever a new one is at Country Cat, it gives one pause. It does sound like maybe a narrow a-arm kit and a 2.6" PC track might actually be good purchases and keep me from dropping many more thousands on a newer sled for a couple more years. I think it's about $2,500ish all in and probably a huge difference. I did order a 2-wheel kit the other day, lol...$45 to help get this tank over a bit easier is worth a gamble, I think.
I have actually been a lot more aggressive with the throttle this year to get the sled set over, which has been helpful. I think I might overdo it a tad...need to get on the brake faster after the blip as the sled can get away from me when I try to use throttle to keep it on edge, which makes me go from proactive to reactive. I've also found that, curiously, putting my foot way far back doesn't seem to make the sled want to turn uphill, which I haven't figured out yet. Maybe not enough countersteer and/or maybe the suspension is all out of whack. I might try to snag the wife's GoPro next time. It would be good to have footage to review and see if I am doing all the things that I think I'm doing.
Only problem I have with math is by the time I add my improved parts like a weight loss program or clutching or a belt drive or shocks (shocks cost so much) I start thinking it’s not money well spent. If I put 5-7k into even my sled I lose. I think the market will correct itself and prices will be better but for technology and reliability and of course performance, it’s hard for me to think it’s a win. You also absolutely have to think about flipping these things before they are old or high mileage lol! Of course I’ve made the investment so I fall back on that number. I had the 2016 for 4k and thought the same thing. Now iam looking again and iam allways about 6k out. So not bad really. For 6k I can make a move into newer (if I sell) so it makes the 4-6k dollar older sled seem a bit less appealing. It’s unfair comparison I know and money is money it’s not just a game if its important but you’d have to think you’ll get there eventually. I bought radios after I ran out of gas and couldn’t find my wife lol. I bought good boots after I got bad blisters and sore legs lol. So far I’ve been behind the curve lol. I tried a steep side hill last week and it was way easier UNTIL I lost my edge then I went straight down lol! Still think you should try this sled to get it out of your system cause the alpha rail isn t for everyone (says the experienced riders) and maybe you should be looking for a rmk or a expert?? Going to be good for a week down here hopefully this storms getting you too! My wife’s from great falls and she likes skiing showdown, maybe we could meet up and ride there too? After you see me ride you’ll feel like burandt lol! Let me know if you guys wanna go sometime.
If I had a sled as new as yours, I would be thinking along the same lines! Fortunately/unfortunately, both my wife and I like my sled and we realize that it is worth way more as our eventual backup sled than I would be to someone else, so I'm certainly not opposed to dropping some coin on it to keep it capable & enjoyable. Resale just isn't a concern, but saving up for a new sled is. I'm sure I'll find a happy medium, but I've seen all kinds of opinions, from 'don't put any money into a sled that archaic' to 'it's not THAT different from a newer sled.'
I think I will go ahead and upgrade the track, but not sure if a narrow front end is on the docket quite yet. The sled already has upgraded shocks, an aftermarket seat, a can, running board inserts, and an upgraded rear bumper...and soon to be a 2-wheel kit & anti-stab, so it's probably a decent platform to keep around. I think the previous owner said there was some kind of motor work too, but I'll pretend that I didn't hear that.
Yeah, getting excited about the forecast! Supposed to get a foot or so at Kings Hill, near Showdown. Definitely down to meet up and take turns getting each other unstuck, lol. I need to check out some of the riding down your way too. Off tomorrow and next Friday, so I'll be looking to go make a fool of myself somewhere for the next two long weekends.
I think I will go ahead and upgrade the track, but not sure if a narrow front end is on the docket quite yet. The sled already has upgraded shocks, an aftermarket seat, a can, running board inserts, and an upgraded rear bumper...and soon to be a 2-wheel kit & anti-stab, so it's probably a decent platform to keep around. I think the previous owner said there was some kind of motor work too, but I'll pretend that I didn't hear that.
Yeah, getting excited about the forecast! Supposed to get a foot or so at Kings Hill, near Showdown. Definitely down to meet up and take turns getting each other unstuck, lol. I need to check out some of the riding down your way too. Off tomorrow and next Friday, so I'll be looking to go make a fool of myself somewhere for the next two long weekends.
I’ve never snowmobiled over there but I’ve hunted quite a bit and we run whitewater rivers and do an annual belt creek trip. There’s alot of country back there. Big country! As soon as your dialed you’ll have a lot of ground you can cover. Not to awful far from the crazies either but kinda I guess. Guy on here from Lewiston who talks about the crazies now and again. I just looked at a really nice forest service cabin there that snowmobile access and riding all around. So looking like a life time of gnar to send! Only thing I really ever get nervous about is an injury deep in the woods. But that’s life. I carry a inreach from river stuff just in case lol. I’ve been broken a few times but never anything bad. The ran out of gas thing made my wife very upset and she was scared so don’t scare your wife !!! I’ll send ya my contact info and I’ll see if I can come up. I actually want to ride the little belts and we can stay at Grammys house lol.
Front track shock needs to be cranked up.
1in or so of threads below the jam nut.
If ur trying to side hill slopes 15-20°, those are harder than 30-40°
20-30° u should be able to stand in the neutral position and counter steer to sidehill. Somewhere between 30-40° and maybe even a touch below 30°, u will need to be wrong foot forward or at least both feet on one side. 40°+ is getting pretty steep, and u will be hanging off the one side and leaning over the handlebars trying to prevent washout.
I put 4,000 miles on my 09, at 170 lbs, i tossed that sled around pretty easy sidehilling. I could side hill hard crusty snow, and it stuck to the hillside with a 2.25 powerclaw.
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1in or so of threads below the jam nut.
If ur trying to side hill slopes 15-20°, those are harder than 30-40°
20-30° u should be able to stand in the neutral position and counter steer to sidehill. Somewhere between 30-40° and maybe even a touch below 30°, u will need to be wrong foot forward or at least both feet on one side. 40°+ is getting pretty steep, and u will be hanging off the one side and leaning over the handlebars trying to prevent washout.
I put 4,000 miles on my 09, at 170 lbs, i tossed that sled around pretty easy sidehilling. I could side hill hard crusty snow, and it stuck to the hillside with a 2.25 powerclaw.
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