Whats up with all the people skiing on the trails.

[Deep Powder Guy]

The birth place of public land closure years ago began in Calfornia and the results of that was a over spill into other states east of the California state line. California base companies like the Sierra Club along with there hug contributions have been stirring the pot for years and will continue to do so at will....

I'm curious to know as we are heading into winter and soon summer is there any specific user group of the backcountry in any state unsatisfied ?....I know of many groups who never step foot into the backcountry who are on a crusade but which winter category is Californians struggling with ? Snowmobilers, Skier/Boarders, Snowshoers, Dog Mushers, who ?

Here's some facts that will certainly be objected by the liberals in California.....There's an estimated 39,000,0000 people living in California and only a handful of snow parks available for winter access to calif backcountry. With such a large population opening more public lands will spread the users out giving everyone more elbow room to play.....Not In California's Use Plan

There's approx 20 snow parks for a population of close to 40 million people.....What if there were 20 beaches in California ?

DPG

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

And the 3 survey monkey.com links are polluted with anti snowmobile & OHV use. The 10 asked must have been written by a contributor to the Sierra Club. .......Anti Snowmobiles Anti OHV slogans used in the literature is just proof of the California BS.

DPG

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Winter Wildland Alliance Mission Statement.....Winter Wildland Alliance is a national non-profit organization dedicated to promoting and preserving winter wild lands and a quality human powered snow sport expriance.

Snowlands Network Mission Statement same chit as above

DPG

 

[Pickin’ Boogers]

There's an estimated 39,000,0000 people living in California and only a handful of snow parks available for winter access to calif backcountry. With such a large population opening more public lands will spread the users out giving everyone more elbow room to play.
DPG

This is exactly the kind of comment that you should submit to the survey. If all they get is anti-access type comments, that gives them more fuel for their cause. And I promise you that if you live in the Western US, WWA's cause includes closing some if not most of your access.

Nobody from the USFS is checking comments from this forum (at least in any meaningful, positive way), but you can bet that the USFS will be hearing about the "results" from WWA's survey.

 

[Deep Powder Guy]

Were talking California where well funded special interest groups hire a teams of lawyers to muddy up anything and everything that is not consistent with there belief and in California those numbers are in the millions who would like nothing more than to control public lands to there liking which has been going on in California for going on 30 plus years.

On the other hand I can assure that in other states where snowmobiling plays a huge part of the economic & tourism portfolio land grabs by special interested has been very very limited. Still millions and millions of acres to ride and 100's of snow parks to park unload and enjoy the backcountry.

Not just for snowmobilers for everyone.

DPG

 

[509 jw]

Yep these are the same people that ride their bicycles on the HWY's and expect traffic to wait for a passing lane. They have some nads.

 

[CO Powder]

I wouldn't underestimate WWA. I fought them 10 years ago in po dunk SW CO. They are not just in California, they are all over the west working on similar projects. They support the Sneffels Wilderness expansion, which I look at through my window... The worked hard to lock up Red Mtn Pass but I think I stopped them on that one. They succeeded between Silverton and Durango in adding 40,000 of new Wilderness.

The push these days is to limit sleds to trails. They are starting in Cali because it is easiest. They were shot down and that is why they are challenging the decision.

If sleds are to be limited to trails, skiers are to be limited to commercial ski areas. Fair is fair and you can bet they wouldn't like their own brand of medicine.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Classic divide-and-conquer strategy. The greenies have been using it for years to drive us off of public lands.

They keep using motorized i.e. multi-use trails LOOKING for conflict so they can add more grist to the complaint mill.

And of course, when they complain about us using the trails we're allowed on to the various public land managers, 99% of the time, they are complaining to a fellow greenie.

But then, we are our own worst enemy. What with all the focused sledder activism, and all.

 

[Pro-8250]

Join your local snowmobile club.

We did see a few skiers on the trail recently in the snowies. No big deal. What irks me is when I see a sign on the road side with a bicycle on it and it says share the road. How about share the cost? Here in MN we have 22,000 miles of snowmobile trails. Bikes or any motorized vehicle except snowmobiles are not allowed on the trail and if you are walking, skiing, or dog sledding on the trail the snowmobile has the right of way. The best thing any snowmobiler can do is join your local snowmobile and ATV club and get involved. Years ago we used to get 30-40 people at club meeting, now were lucky if we get a dozen.

 

[Jaynelson]

FWIW - me, my girl and 2 friends went snow-shoeing with our dogs on an old snowmobile trail on the weekend. I know the trail well, and it rarely gets used as there is a newer/bigger/faster road that goes to the same place...so I assumed we wouldn't run across anyone. We did actually run across a group on sleds...they slowed down to not cause issue with the dogs, we all said hi, everyone lived.

I have sledded that particular mountain as much as anyone my age and am actively involved in the local club, same can be said for the other guy with us. So I really think many of you are stereotyping those users in the same way many of them would stereotype us. You have no idea what other activities they participate in, clubs they belong to, or fees they pay. If the rules don't stipulate that they pay fees for their activity, then they are playing by the rules....so be mad at the system, and not the individual just trying to enjoy their weekend.

And yes, some people have a bad attitude....and it is also possible to run in to some of those.

 

[snowmobiler]

bet people are different way up there in BC..

 

[Butta]

I don't mind paying the fee to use my sled in the areas I ride, however, when the purpose of the fee is to "fund the trail grooming", I get annoyed. I could care less if the trails are groomed. In fact, I'd rather they weren't groomed. Then, maybe there would be less traffic and more parking. I love it when you see an out of state license plate parked without courtesy of others, sometimes even blocking passage. Get rid of the groomers, have the funds go to keep the areas open. Works for me. Skiers ought to pay to use the area, just like I feel bicyclists should pay a registration fee to use the road.

 

[powerstroke 350700]

This is a little off subject but my family and I, 10 of us went up on the north shore in MN to Lutsen to down hill ski and snowmoble woke up the first morning and my truck and inclosed trailer was covered in eggs yes eggs! We we never rodding around or loud I was riding with my 5 and 8 year olds, wife ,mom, and dad ......... SO.... what do you think my opinion is of these folks and I know they are not all the same just sayin!!!!!!!
Thanks
Ryan Hajek

 

[CO Powder]

I think it is a false presumption that sledders antagonize skiers without cause. Unfortunately, my experience is that many of them are entitled gentleman vegetables. Whether they are spouting lies at a forest circus meeting or standing in the road giving you attitude of some form, there are a bunch of clowns out there demanding respect but not earning it.

I understand that they feel the same way and throw various forms of pollution out as additional transgressions against nature and humanity. I remain reserved and polite right up until they start preaching to me, then I fulfill their dream of an angry sledder. I think they need reminders now and then that theirs is not the only form of recreation.

 

[mwgiant]

You have no idea what other activities they participate in, clubs they belong to, or fees they pay. If the rules don't stipulate that they pay fees for their activity, then they are playing by the rules....so be mad at the system, and not the individual just trying to enjoy their weekend.
Thank
And yes, some people have a bad attitude....and it is also possible to run in to some of those.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying so what you are saying is the ones we run into that are not aholes are probably fellow,snomobilers that makes sense. Ha! Ha!

 

[free2fawl]

In the Ketchum/Sun Valley area you will find califorication is the norm. The groomed trails are totally off limits. The Hyndman area, a 15mi ride that ends up at 11,000ft is closed until Mar. On one ride up on the east fork of Baker about 8 of us came upon the groomer which had slid off trail down the hill. We spent a couple of hours helping John get back up on the trail while groups of skiers ate their lunches and watched. Thought that was all behind me when I moved to McCall. But I witnessed an accident that scared the hell out of me. A group of us were riding on Brundage, I was bringing up the rear with a first time rider in front of me. I saw a sled coming down the hill at us. The woman in front of me took the corner wide to our side just like she had been instructed. The rider of the other sled was turned looking back when they had a head on. He was pulling a skier behind him on a rope. As we picked up the broken pieces I couldn't help but thinking what could have happened. This is so dangerous if you want to try it please, please do it at home.

 

[TreewellDweller]

In the McCall area, Unit 43A, anyone that uses the groomed snowmobile trail has to purchase a tag. This includes cross country skiers, fat-tire bicycles, dog sleds and, naturally, snowmobiles, tracked UTVs, and snow-bikes. I have even seen quite a few joggers the last few years and according to the new rules they should also be getting a tag. If the trails weren't groomed and the parking lots plowed no one could use them. So, if you use the trail you purchase a tag. Seems fair enough.

 

[TIM]

my fat bike saw more time on the trails this year than my snowmobile.
Funny thing is fat bikers are wanting to buy groomer stickers to support the trails, but we legally can't buy groomer stickers.

to me, the rzr's with tracks are more of a concern on groomed trails than a bicycle.

As a human powered sports fan whose favorite activity is sledding. it is funny to see the hate on both sides. and both sides do hate on each other the same.

 

[CO Powder]

my fat bike saw more time on the trails this year than my snowmobile.
Funny thing is fat bikers are wanting to buy groomer stickers to support the trails, but we legally can't buy groomer stickers.

to me, the rzr's with tracks are more of a concern on groomed trails than a bicycle.

As a human powered sports fan whose favorite activity is sledding. it is funny to see the hate on both sides. and both sides do hate on each other the same.

Just remember, this is very one sided. The non motorized groups are constantly, relentlessly trying to close public lands to the motorized community. It NEVER goes the other way. I see sledders anger as completely justified because of this.

What are the skiers mad about? Too lazy and slow to get out and get first tracks? Don't want to hear the sleds yet they recreate as close to the main highways as possible to save effort? The skiers are entitled whiney biotches. They preach tolerance right up until it is something they do not approve of, the irony is lost on them.

How are we supposed to get along and share nice in this type of situation? Just bend over and take it from the enlightened ones? I think not...

 

[Jaynelson]

"Groups" yes, but does that translate to every individual you run across? You think every single skier or hiker you meet on a trail is part of one of these groups? I bet the majority of them would have no idea what you're talking about. Just like the majority of sledders won't even join their local club....same on that side.