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What would WyoBoy do to improve a pro?

14 pro rmk I had raptors all around before it hit the snow. When I rode a 2013 pro with stock shocks, the front I had so tight on the springs it was hard to make it role up on an edge. And I could bottom them out on the 2-3' roller holes. The rear track shocks I could bottom out at will. Unless they were tighten up to almost max. Then it rode like a 1ton truck. Trenched a lot like this. With the raptors I had the front springs almost as loose as they go and just used the clicker for the conditions im in. Sled would role on edge a lot easier, makes the sled fell lighter.and no impact up to my arms. The rear on the raptors I set the ride hight and just use the clicker most of the time for snow conditions.front track shock set 1/8"-1/4" from bottom threads. I had a nice soft ride, but most importantly I would not bottom out on the hard hits that you feel in you're back or knees. And if I did bottom out it would not transfer back to my body...
 
As far as "improving the PRO"... making it fit you and your riding style are the biggest strides in the right direction.

Countless threads and posts on here since 2010 have outlined this topic by many people who have ridden and wrenched on is platform for years... many with 10's of thousands miles on more than one model-year in their stable and often a new one every year. The wealth of knowledge and experiences from our members is amazing!

Getting the rider position right, for their proportions and bodily dimensions is huge.. handlebars play a big role in that... long arms/short arms, long torso/short torso, long legs/short legs, Wide shoulders/narrow shoulders... all require a different setup to be optimal... and rarely does that setup feel "good" to another rider.

Keeping ice and snow off of the sled is a good place to start as well....

Tunnel reinforcements, Gearing and clutching changes, seat height etc... all go a long way to fine tuning the sled for the particular rider.




.
 
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MO about the "old pro". It's not over for it yet lol.

Power wise the pro is easy to improve with the side benefit of better component life.
Gear down to a true mountain ratio to get use of the power available. The others have used this advantage to improve belt and clutch life over the last few years. Even though we don't "need to", for clutching, it still helps belt and clutch life and lower ratio pulls through deep and steep easier. I think some of the performance improvement on the Axys comes from gearing.
Different combustion chamber design offers power over the whole range and if your not pulled into the "higher ratio than your elevation needs", thing, helps with piston cooling-life too.
Polaris has been adding oil each year. Reasons are obvious but get it to the ratio of the others. Ads power by keeping things "like new".
Know your year. Poo has change fueling every year. Some are too lean here and there, some are too rich here and there and some are both. When it's right you wouldn't notice it so much but it will pull with the rest.
It's snappy and fun to use power. Most failures happen within 5 miles of a stop. Think that one through.

The handling is great stock. Best sled ever. Too many have been sold for just this reason to deny it but some want more. The platform is the easiest to move around on for room so for me "fit" was less important ie bar height. I see that as a good thing because rarely is mountain riding a constant terrain. I did find the front footholds tight so I opened them up to save myself when I screw up. IMO if handlebar height makes a sled something else is wrong.
Increased steering (decrease steering radius) helps the "Old Pro" as much as it did on the PC or M-sled and for the same reasons. Narrow front end or raising the chassis has the same effect but you don't have to move the bars as much to initiate. For this reason I always like to shorten the throw on the handle bars and increase steering and I did it to my Pro.

Suspension. MO ICR hit it when he pointed to QC on the shocks. I had no luck with different oil because bodies were too loose. Fade in 10 min. from expansion and wear contaminated oil in 200 km. EVO 3's were my cure because the stock shocks are so light anything else added weight but lots of good options including good stock bodies revalved. Shocks are huge even in 3 feet of snow because the sled still weighs more than you so why fight it.
Rear skid. You'd be hard pressed to measure the geometry differences between M-sled, PC, Holz and Pro skids with them on a bench. It's a good powder set-up. How they mount in the chassis is everything which allows slight rear shock control arm differences and front shock mount location. If a '16 Cat rear is better than an old pro skid it's only because of shock set-up or a couple of holes different and it won't be much different from a '12 pc skid with the front shock mounted a bit different.

Tracks are tracks so compare apples to apples in your world. Any bets on 3.5" before the end of the year?

Of all the sleds I've owned the Pro has the shortest list of must do's to make it excellent. I'm not excellent anymore but I can still appreciate excellent. If you need more than excellent, more power to you. If you want more than excellent, good luck because that is open ended.
The Axys will be more excellent than the Pro and the '16 PC Cat may be more excellent than the previous PC but will they be more excellent than the modified more excellent machines from last season is yet to be seen and more excellent can be improved to way more excellent if your heart desires (and many will) but way more excellent will soon be surpassed by way way more excellent so sooner or later you will find the level of excellence that you appreciate which may be more or less excellent than what someone else needs to appreciate excellence and it's all good because the level of excellence on the snow is still a balance of 90 % rider excellence and 10% machine excellence. Isn't it?

Or something like that.
 
MO about the "old pro". It's not over for it yet lol.



Power wise the pro is easy to improve with the side benefit of better component life.

Gear down to a true mountain ratio to get use of the power available. The others have used this advantage to improve belt and clutch life over the last few years. Even though we don't "need to", for clutching, it still helps belt and clutch life and lower ratio pulls through deep and steep easier. I think some of the performance improvement on the Axys comes from gearing.

Different combustion chamber design offers power over the whole range and if your not pulled into the "higher ratio than your elevation needs", thing, helps with piston cooling-life too.

Polaris has been adding oil each year. Reasons are obvious but get it to the ratio of the others. Ads power by keeping things "like new".

Know your year. Poo has change fueling every year. Some are too lean here and there, some are too rich here and there and some are both. When it's right you wouldn't notice it so much but it will pull with the rest.

It's snappy and fun to use power. Most failures happen within 5 miles of a stop. Think that one through.



The handling is great stock. Best sled ever. Too many have been sold for just this reason to deny it but some want more. The platform is the easiest to move around on for room so for me "fit" was less important ie bar height. I see that as a good thing because rarely is mountain riding a constant terrain. I did find the front footholds tight so I opened them up to save myself when I screw up. IMO if handlebar height makes a sled something else is wrong.

Increased steering (decrease steering radius) helps the "Old Pro" as much as it did on the PC or M-sled and for the same reasons. Narrow front end or raising the chassis has the same effect but you don't have to move the bars as much to initiate. For this reason I always like to shorten the throw on the handle bars and increase steering and I did it to my Pro.



Suspension. MO ICR hit it when he pointed to QC on the shocks. I had no luck with different oil because bodies were too loose. Fade in 10 min. from expansion and wear contaminated oil in 200 km. EVO 3's were my cure because the stock shocks are so light anything else added weight but lots of good options including good stock bodies revalved. Shocks are huge even in 3 feet of snow because the sled still weighs more than you so why fight it.

Rear skid. You'd be hard pressed to measure the geometry differences between M-sled, PC, Holz and Pro skids with them on a bench. It's a good powder set-up. How they mount in the chassis is everything which allows slight rear shock control arm differences and front shock mount location. If a '16 Cat rear is better than an old pro skid it's only because of shock set-up or a couple of holes different and it won't be much different from a '12 pc skid with the front shock mounted a bit different.



Tracks are tracks so compare apples to apples in your world. Any bets on 3.5" before the end of the year?



Of all the sleds I've owned the Pro has the shortest list of must do's to make it excellent. I'm not excellent anymore but I can still appreciate excellent. If you need more than excellent, more power to you. If you want more than excellent, good luck because that is open ended.

The Axys will be more excellent than the Pro and the '16 PC Cat may be more excellent than the previous PC but will they be more excellent than the modified more excellent machines from last season is yet to be seen and more excellent can be improved to way more excellent if your heart desires (and many will) but way more excellent will soon be surpassed by way way more excellent so sooner or later you will find the level of excellence that you appreciate which may be more or less excellent than what someone else needs to appreciate excellence and it's all good because the level of excellence on the snow is still a balance of 90 % rider excellence and 10% machine excellence. Isn't it?



Or something like that.


Excellent
 
MO about the "old pro". It's not over for it yet lol.

Power wise the pro is easy to improve with the side benefit of better component life.
Gear down to a true mountain ratio to get use of the power available. The others have used this advantage to improve belt and clutch life over the last few years. Even though we don't "need to", for clutching, it still helps belt and clutch life and lower ratio pulls through deep and steep easier. I think some of the performance improvement on the Axys comes from gearing.
Different combustion chamber design offers power over the whole range and if your not pulled into the "higher ratio than your elevation needs", thing, helps with piston cooling-life too.
Polaris has been adding oil each year. Reasons are obvious but get it to the ratio of the others. Ads power by keeping things "like new".
Know your year. Poo has change fueling every year. Some are too lean here and there, some are too rich here and there and some are both. When it's right you wouldn't notice it so much but it will pull with the rest.
It's snappy and fun to use power. Most failures happen within 5 miles of a stop. Think that one through.

The handling is great stock. Best sled ever. Too many have been sold for just this reason to deny it but some want more. The platform is the easiest to move around on for room so for me "fit" was less important ie bar height. I see that as a good thing because rarely is mountain riding a constant terrain. I did find the front footholds tight so I opened them up to save myself when I screw up. IMO if handlebar height makes a sled something else is wrong.
Increased steering (decrease steering radius) helps the "Old Pro" as much as it did on the PC or M-sled and for the same reasons. Narrow front end or raising the chassis has the same effect but you don't have to move the bars as much to initiate. For this reason I always like to shorten the throw on the handle bars and increase steering and I did it to my Pro.

Suspension. MO ICR hit it when he pointed to QC on the shocks. I had no luck with different oil because bodies were too loose. Fade in 10 min. from expansion and wear contaminated oil in 200 km. EVO 3's were my cure because the stock shocks are so light anything else added weight but lots of good options including good stock bodies revalved. Shocks are huge even in 3 feet of snow because the sled still weighs more than you so why fight it.
Rear skid. You'd be hard pressed to measure the geometry differences between M-sled, PC, Holz and Pro skids with them on a bench. It's a good powder set-up. How they mount in the chassis is everything which allows slight rear shock control arm differences and front shock mount location. If a '16 Cat rear is better than an old pro skid it's only because of shock set-up or a couple of holes different and it won't be much different from a '12 pc skid with the front shock mounted a bit different.

Tracks are tracks so compare apples to apples in your world. Any bets on 3.5" before the end of the year?

Of all the sleds I've owned the Pro has the shortest list of must do's to make it excellent. I'm not excellent anymore but I can still appreciate excellent. If you need more than excellent, more power to you. If you want more than excellent, good luck because that is open ended.
The Axys will be more excellent than the Pro and the '16 PC Cat may be more excellent than the previous PC but will they be more excellent than the modified more excellent machines from last season is yet to be seen and more excellent can be improved to way more excellent if your heart desires (and many will) but way more excellent will soon be surpassed by way way more excellent so sooner or later you will find the level of excellence that you appreciate which may be more or less excellent than what someone else needs to appreciate excellence and it's all good because the level of excellence on the snow is still a balance of 90 % rider excellence and 10% machine excellence. Isn't it?

Or something like that.

again GEO talking his axx in a O just to hear his self type.

you need to get WYO's number so you guys can talk about how great you are to each other and spare the 4ms all your self ego bull $hit.
 
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again GEO talking his axx in a O just to hear his self type.

you need to get WYO's number so you guys can talk about how great you are to each other and spare the 4ms all your self ego bull $hit.

Lol, your comment is pure ego, disgust and chatter with nothing to back it up.
Don't confuse confidence with ego. When credit is due I give it.
We are having a great conversation hear. Not a lot that's new but it's all good waiting for snow.
 
Lol, your comment is pure ego, disgust and chatter with nothing to back it up.
Don't confuse confidence with ego. When credit is due I give it.
We are having a great conversation hear. Not a lot that's new but it's all good waiting for snow.


no kidding huh? my primary sled is not even a polaris, and i still was enjoying this conversation.
 
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He'd put a A/C sticker on it and brag how its the best cat he's ever had:)

Nah, it might add 3hp though, lol

I've beat on cat way more then the pro, you just don't see it here. In fact I've spent 4yrs thrashing cat for not building or modifying a chassis to the pro standard of backcountry performance. Now a lot of guys and aftermarket companies are taking matters into there own hands to modify the chassis exactly the way I did 4 years ago. I avoided the pro early on because of the engine, which got better, but by the time it did I figured out how to make the right changes easier and decided to stick with it last season. Remember this is looking at it from a time perspective and 4k worth of changes. That is where you can't really compare brands as much as style. 4k in the cat goes farther then the pro. On the cat it was all in chassis, weight loss and track. Just to put the same track on would eat up nearly 2k, then to turn the engine into comparison would eat up the rest. Will be interesting to see what this year brings.
Like I've always said, if I had to ride 100% stock it would be pro.
The question was what would I do, I don't ride stock so it's open market.
Based on everything I know the easiest thing to do would be sell the pro and get an axys. Beyond that you have to be ready to fab which also opens the discussion for any make really.
 
Boards

<a href="http://s1300.photobucket.com/user/roni8710/media/2012%20RMK/image.jpg1_zpsucrrgtnq.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag92/roni8710/2012%20RMK/image.jpg1_zpsucrrgtnq.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo image.jpg1_zpsucrrgtnq.jpg"/></a>

Since this thread lost its punch here we go.
Here's a little peak into my upgrade. Boards are 1" higher on inside and 3" higher on outer edge. Moved forward 1.75" along with panels being tucked a bunch. Not completely bolted on but close.

Handlebars are only about 5-6" off the garage floor when the back of the boards hit the floor.

Bunch more done to this sled already and plan on more stuff before the snow flies.
 
Why would you not want to raise the inside of the boards level with the outside? Seems it would be pretty uncomfortable having to ride on the rails all day. Had to do that on a 700 powder special years ago and it was less than optimal. Bending over bars all day for me at least is not desirable.
 
Standing on it with tennis shoes, it is quite noticeable when both feet are on the boards. I'm sure with sled boots on it will be less stress on the ankles. If the inside of the boards were up any higher I'd be getting into where the front of the skid bolts on.

Once you lay it over it feels way better than stock (flat) boards.

I'm building this sled to be on one ski. Anything that touches the snow will act as a brake, that is my game plan.
 
MO about the "old pro". It's not over for it yet lol.

Power wise the pro is easy to improve with the side benefit of better component life.
Gear down to a true mountain ratio to get use of the power available. The others have used this advantage to improve belt and clutch life over the last few years. Even though we don't "need to", for clutching, it still helps belt and clutch life and lower ratio pulls through deep and steep easier. I think some of the performance improvement on the Axys comes from gearing.
Different combustion chamber design offers power over the whole range and if your not pulled into the "higher ratio than your elevation needs", thing, helps with piston cooling-life too.
Polaris has been adding oil each year. Reasons are obvious but get it to the ratio of the others. Ads power by keeping things "like new".
Know your year. Poo has change fueling every year. Some are too lean here and there, some are too rich here and there and some are both. When it's right you wouldn't notice it so much but it will pull with the rest.
It's snappy and fun to use power. Most failures happen within 5 miles of a stop. Think that one through.

The handling is great stock. Best sled ever. Too many have been sold for just this reason to deny it but some want more. The platform is the easiest to move around on for room so for me "fit" was less important ie bar height. I see that as a good thing because rarely is mountain riding a constant terrain. I did find the front footholds tight so I opened them up to save myself when I screw up. IMO if handlebar height makes a sled something else is wrong.
Increased steering (decrease steering radius) helps the "Old Pro" as much as it did on the PC or M-sled and for the same reasons. Narrow front end or raising the chassis has the same effect but you don't have to move the bars as much to initiate. For this reason I always like to shorten the throw on the handle bars and increase steering and I did it to my Pro.

Suspension. MO ICR hit it when he pointed to QC on the shocks. I had no luck with different oil because bodies were too loose. Fade in 10 min. from expansion and wear contaminated oil in 200 km. EVO 3's were my cure because the stock shocks are so light anything else added weight but lots of good options including good stock bodies revalved. Shocks are huge even in 3 feet of snow because the sled still weighs more than you so why fight it.
Rear skid. You'd be hard pressed to measure the geometry differences between M-sled, PC, Holz and Pro skids with them on a bench. It's a good powder set-up. How they mount in the chassis is everything which allows slight rear shock control arm differences and front shock mount location. If a '16 Cat rear is better than an old pro skid it's only because of shock set-up or a couple of holes different and it won't be much different from a '12 pc skid with the front shock mounted a bit different.

Tracks are tracks so compare apples to apples in your world. Any bets on 3.5" before the end of the year?

Of all the sleds I've owned the Pro has the shortest list of must do's to make it excellent. I'm not excellent anymore but I can still appreciate excellent. If you need more than excellent, more power to you. If you want more than excellent, good luck because that is open ended.
The Axys will be more excellent than the Pro and the '16 PC Cat may be more excellent than the previous PC but will they be more excellent than the modified more excellent machines from last season is yet to be seen and more excellent can be improved to way more excellent if your heart desires (and many will) but way more excellent will soon be surpassed by way way more excellent so sooner or later you will find the level of excellence that you appreciate which may be more or less excellent than what someone else needs to appreciate excellence and it's all good because the level of excellence on the snow is still a balance of 90 % rider excellence and 10% machine excellence. Isn't it?

Or something like that.

How did you open them up?
 
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