WHAT HAPPENED TO INDY DAN's LONG ROD MOTOR THREAD??

[LoudHandle]

, FTX uses Brad's billet crankcase which is a work of art for their billet polaris based top ends and would also bet they got the cranks from Brad also. Scary the reifications of one decision to use questionable parts.

Ouch! Hey that hurt...what'd I do???

We built ONE custom engine based of the billet bottom end last year...We have not personally tested the other crank products released by PAR and as always, we will never sell anything to the public unless we've used it ourselves-that's been our shops MO from the beginning and it will never change since that's why we have happy customers!

Please do not include my shop in this discussion...it kinda hurts my feelings

Curt[/QUOTE]

I extend my personal apologies, I should have withheld the business name in this discussion. Please forgive me, I meant no ill will towards FTX and it's choice of vendors.

 

[Scott]

I deleted Indy Dan's Post... And talked to both Dan and Brad on the phone (yesterday)

Both have agreed not to air their "personal laundry" on the forums here.

It was deleted for a reason... There are no personal or business attacks allowed on here... plain and simple.

There seems to be a deterioration of the relationship between Dan and Brad... and that is between the two of them.

Both Dan and Brad are friends of mine. I've stayed with Dan at his home. And have visited with Brad as well at his home. Which makes this personally very difficult for me to watch happen.

Both parties build high quality parts in my experience... I have installed/used parts from both people and I have been very happy with the results.

I currently have a motor with Dan Turen and really look forward to running it.

"Cheap Taiwanese" connecting rods...C'mon man... do you have any personal experience with QC on these rods or any real information to share with us??

Your rods WERE made in Taiwan, I'm told by Brad... by the same company that makes OEM rods for Arctic Cat and Carillo. You bought your parts for a reason... IMO... you should trust your first instinct OR if you don't trust it ... do as you say and send the Crankshaft to Indy Specialty to have the work done if that is your preference.

The last thing we need to see on here is another "Battle of the Cheerleaders".

I will delete any Cut & Pastes or quotes of this from ebay or other sources.

Most of you know me and know that I work very hard to keep an even keel and not over-moderate these forums. I VERY rarely delete a thread... and can count the amount of times on my hand that I've done that.

Also... you all need to understand that ALL of the moderators Volunteer their time on here

All this talk of censorship is starting to get old as well.

Simply put, you cannot come on this forum and start a feud.

I don't need to watch a cheerleading match on here to enjoy this forum.... Do you???

Dan told me that he understands what and why... If that is good enough for him... It should be good enough for you too.







.

Thank you and well done.

 

[LoudHandle]

I deleted Indy Dan's Post... And talked to both Dan and Brad on the phone.

Both have agreed not to air their "personal laundry" on the forums here.

It was deleted for a reason... There are no personal or business attacks allowed on here plain and simple.

There seems to be a deterioration of the relationship between Dan and Brad... and that is between the two of them.

Both Dan and Brad are friends of mine. I've stayed with Dan at his home. And have visited with Brad as well at his home. Which makes this personally very difficult for me to watch happen.

Both parties build high quality parts in my experience... I have installed/used parts from both people and I have been very happy with the results.

I currently have a motor with Dan Turen and really look forward to running it.

"Cheap Taiwanese" connecting rods...C'mon man... do you have any personal experience with QC on these rods or any real information to share with us??

Your rods WERE made in Taiwan, by the same company that makes OEM rods for Arctic Cat and Carillo. You bought your parts for a reason... IMO... you should trust your first instinct OR if you don't trust it ... do as you say and send the Crankshaft to Indy Specialty to have the work done if that is your preference.

The last thing we need to see on here is another "Battle of the Cheerleaders".

I will delete any Cut & Pastes or quotes of this from ebay or other sources.

Most of you know me and know that I work very hard to keep an even keel and not over-moderate these forums. I VERY rarely delete a thread... and can count the amount of times on my hand that I've done that.

Also... you all need to understand that ALL of the moderators Volunteer their time on here

All this talk of censorship is starting to get old as well.

Simply put, you cannot come on this forum and start a feud.

I don't need to watch a cheerleading match on here to enjoy this forum.... Do you???

Dan told me that he understands what and why... If that is good enough for him... It should be good enough for you too.







.

mountainhorse,

While I sympathize with your position, I disagree with your approach!

Ultimately the consumer has the right to know. The rods I received on my crank are not as advertised pure and simple. They are not made in-house, they are not billet, they are not the rods depicted on Brad's sight, before he pulled all the long rod pages off of the web. I paid good money for quality parts not to mention shipping costs to Alaska. I can not afford a failure in the bush any more than the rest of the sled community. His bait and switch marketing is suspect at best. Finally, yes I will take the grand I spent with him and chalk it up to educational experience and will never do any more business nor PR for Brad nor PAR on the forum. Feel free to delete this post too and protect the public from the information they deserve to hear.

 

[R44guy]

I have also had business experience with both parties. I did use the non USA long rod kit from Hanson Racing Engines that came directly from PAR and they work just fine and Eric had very good things to say about these rods and they are now very well tested and they work very well and I would buy them again.

I feel like the eBay listing was interesting reading material but for Dan to say the very well established machine shop has a airplane that needs fuel money is completely ridiculous and most successful business people choose to write of the cost of car, truck, boat, airplane, RV for various tax portfolio reasons and maybe Dan is jealous?

This machine shop produces a huge volume of work from mostly all none sled or engine related projects in one week which is probably 100 times greater then Indy produces in 5 years. The eBay ad also does not mention who the other shop is but it makes the business that placed the said ad look bad too.

Also remember that Dan's claims are not against the Airplane owner but his son! Now I hope that this disagreement does not hurt either business and with them both being competitors this should all be taken with a grain or two of salt IMO.

 

[Scott]

Indy Dan's Long Rod Motor Thread was on here yesterday.

Where'd it go?

I don't to prolong this topic, but i do want to clarify.
IndyDans long rod motor thread is still there and it hasn't been edited.
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312173


The post in question is just that, a post, at the end of a thread started by someone else inquiring about long rod motor products.

 

[R44guy]

mountainhorse,

While I sympathize with your position, I disagree with your approach!

Ultimately the consumer has the right to know. The rods I received on my crank are not as advertised pure and simple. They are not made in-house, they are not billet, they are not the rods depicted on Brad's sight, before he pulled all the long rod pages off of the web. I paid good money for quality parts not to mention shipping costs to Alaska. I can not afford a failure in the bush any more than the rest of the sled community. His bait and switch marketing is suspect at best. Finally, yes I will take the grand I spent with him and chalk it up to educational experience and will never do any more business nor PR for Brad nor PAR on the forum. Feel free to delete this post too and protect the public from the information they deserve to hear.

LH, So to be clear you understood from PAR that you were buying the made in the USA Billet rods and then you got the cheap ones made in china?

 

[glassman]

Is this what you got?


Because that is how it is advertised.

 

[LoudHandle]

LH, So to be clear you understood from PAR that you were buying the made in the USA Billet rods and then you got the cheap ones made in china?

Exactly! if he had even mentioned otherwise I would have sent the crank elsewhere. I am very pro american in my buying habits. Up until an hour ago his website still claimed the rods to be "billet" made "In-house rods". That has proven to not be the case. My rods were forgings or castings made by "Kingrod" with PAR stamped in black ink on the flip side. The most current web picture was of a billet rod made by some other company ADR? I should have taken a screen shot as Brad pulled the pages minutes later.

 

[LoudHandle]

Is this what you got?


Because that is how it is advertised.

No, that is not at all what I received. I can text you a photo if you want. (Never posted a photo on here.)

I just shot a short video showing both sides of the rods and can email (or upload that as soon as I figure out how).

 

[mountainhorse]

Is this what you received?

 

[LoudHandle]

Is this what you received?

Yes

 

[mountainhorse]

That was shot back in October at the Puyallup Snow Show on the PAR display table.



.

 

[LoudHandle]

That was shot back in October at the Puyallup Snow Show on the PAR display table.



.

And that matters why? I live in Alaska, Never been to a show. All I can go by his his web description and his word. My point of contention is false advertising not whether or not the rod is or is not a quality piece. His web description up until hours ago was "PAR's own Billet rod" this is a Foreign made forging. Entirely different animal.

Can forging be better? Damn straight! But a lot of variables come into play. Material quality before forging, Heat treatment, etc. etc. If you are selling something describe it appropriately.

 

[mountainhorse]

Just stating where/when I took the photo.

I actually agree with you... you did not get what PAR stated in their webpage...

PAR does/did describe the 910 as having billet rods... you got the Forged rods instead.

So ... I DO agree with you... the website should have been updated to show that these are now forged rods and not billet rods. You did not get what was advertised on the PAR website... which is a billet rod.

A more accurate description would have been better.

Good luck, sincerely, with your engine !

PAR....and our new longer billet rods

And that matters why? I live in Alaska, Never been to a show. All I can go by his his web description and his word. My point of contention is false advertising not whether or not the rod is or is not a quality piece. His web description up until hours ago was "PAR's own Billet rod" this is a Foreign made forging. Entirely different animal.

Can forging be better? Damn straight! But a lot of variables come into play. Material quality before forging, Heat treatment, etc. etc. If you are selling something describe it appropriately.

.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

but...but...

why didn't he at least go with the extreme series rod ,it is a billet rod..

and it could have been claimed custom made..

wow..like horseshoes eh..if your out an inch ya may as well be out a mile..





Kingrod's Connecting Rod
Kingrod never satisfy with our quality even though we are already have been one of the top connecting rod manufactory in the world. We believe the only way to keep survive in this strict is keep improving our skill and our product; otherwise you will be out of market very soon. That's why we offer our customer several options such as Material, Design and color of connecting rod.... etc. according to different customer have different needs. In Kingrod, we treat every our customer as V.I.P., every Customer’s request is always be our main goal to achieve.



Extreme Series (Billet Rod)
In case to increase the strength of Billet rod, we make forge first. (As you can see on the right picture)
Like we said, we never satisfy with quality so we found out that if we make forge first then machined instead of just
machined from a piece of steel, we can get 15% stronger.

Extremely light, unbelievably strong, our Billet Rod is intended for use in moderate horsepower and High-RPM application.
Made with the finest aircraft quality steel materials. They are heat treated to obtain that perfect balance of durability and strength

 

[backman]

you can still view PAR web site from google's cache . For example Link

 

[indydan]

Forum Racteteering

Everyone copy and save this post & this thread as fast as you can.

Snowest started out as a small ( free ) sled forum back in the late 90's.

Myself and a few other motorheads spent alots of time on this forum helping out sleds with many problems.

Snowest because knowen as the sled site with the best info.

Now SW has enough members to make it a pay site.

Why do people pay ?? FOR THE INFO !!!


I posted info on the Long Rod thread about mis dealing with Power Addiction racing........I contacted with CVM ( Central valley machine ) to build PTO-ends for the Small Block Polaris motor. I sent samples, and material sheets & heat treating specs. After the PTO were complete brad called and said they were done and asked how many i wanted ??


I said...... you told me I had to build 25, I said how many did you build ? brad said i built 50 .

I said i don't need 50 yet, this is a prototype run for testing purposes. brad said I am selling the rerst to starting line or who ever will buy them.

I said you can keep them I am not getting into a war with SLP or any other shop whoring parts out that are untested.

brad said we are here to sell parts, brad said I want to sell lots of parts.

I said we had a deal...... a gentalmens agreement.

I was done with PAR power addiction racing. ( then the phone call comes in from brad )..........he said we need to heel things up and move on.

I thought to myself...... REALLY!!!!! brad said I want to use your Long Rod design for 910 big bore. I said to myslef.......WOW !!!!

Then brad siad CVM can make the rods for Indy Specialty if we can use them for our 910 motors ONLY !! And brad promised he would not sell them to anyone for any reason.

I said after the PTO end deal you screwed Indy Specialty on I don't wanmt know part of this. ( brads under breath comment was I didn't screw you ) I said the hell you didn't.

Then he said if you don't trust me sign a no compete contract ( which I did this time.)

I have recently learned that i didn't need a no compete contract signed. Samples sent ofr a quote build are protected from production from the quoting company. My Lawyers said even a bad lawyer could win this case.

I then gave Power addiction the go ahead to quote the rods. 3 months later no quote, the 3 months later no quote ( I said brad whats the deal ? ) he said he didn't have time and it looked like they will cost to much to build.

How could brad know what was to much ?? He knew because he was looking at this for his own use and weighing the costs for Power addiction.

A gentalmens hand shake is a binding contract..... so we desided to give this new kid on the block a try........ 3 months later no progress..... I asked what is the deal ?? He said I have been busy flying my airplane. I said we need these done like NOW !!! 3 months later still not product. power addiction said we can't make these it will be to expensive. I started to panic..... then out of the blue we receive a few rods that say made in taiwan on the box ??????

I said whats the deal with this ?? He said this is the only way we could make this work..... go ahead and try them and let me know what you think ??

I was BLOWEN away !!! It was spring time !!! He called and asked how they worked I said i don't know i built two motors and gave them away for testing. I said i won't know for a few years if they work good or not.

Then he asks me how many i want for X number of dollars $$$$$ each ??

I had to laugh the price was high enough for 300 rods to cover his 50 rods for free I am pretty sure..........then over the next 3 days he dropped the price until he said thats as low as he could go...... I said shove them up your a$$.

I have give my lawyers the link to this site, and to this thread.

If this gets pulled by any moderator in bed with Power Addiction ( PAR ) it will have already be copied and pasted so many times it won't matter.

There is nothing in print here that is not true, and there is nothing that is vulgar.

i am to busy to push this to far in the winter months as i am busy trying to keep the Polaris small block on the snow for my customers.

This summer full legal action against power addiction & CVM engaged.

My other post was much better, and I wasn't half as mad as i am now.

I have worked my entire life at this sport and i will not be run over by a spoil little brat that works for CVM in utah.

Dan

 

[aebsledder]

Huh

Everyone copy and save this post & this thread as fast as you can.

Snowest started out as a small ( free ) sled forum back in the late 90's.

Myself and a few other motorheads spent alots of time on this forum helping out sleds with many problems.

Snowest because knowen as the sled site with the best info.

Now SW has enough members to make it a pay site.

Why do people pay ?? FOR THE INFO !!!

Now we have moderators that are in bed with certain shops helping protect them from the truth.

I posted info on the Long Rod thread about mis dealing with Power Addiction racing........I contacted with CVM ( Central valley machine ) to build PTO-ends for the Small Block Polaris motor. I sent samples, and material sheets & heat treating specs. After the PTO were complete brad called and said they were done and asked how many i wanted ??


I said...... you told me I had to build 25, I said how many did you build ? brad said i built 50 .

I said i don't need 50 yet, this is a prototype run for testing purposes. brad said I am selling the rerst to starting line or who ever will buy them.

I said you can keep them I am not getting into a war with SLP or any other shop whoring parts out that are untested.

brad said we are here to sell parts, brad said I want to sell lots of parts.

I said we had a deal...... a gentalmens agreement.

I was done with PAR power addiction racing. ( then the phone call comes in from brad )..........he said we need to heel things up and move on.

I thought to myself...... REALLY!!!!! brad said I want to use your Long Rod design for 910 big bore. I said to myslef.......WOW !!!!

Then brad siad CVM can make the rods for Indy Specialty if we can use them for our 910 motors ONLY !! And brad promised he would not sell them to anyone for any reason.

I said after the PTO end deal you screwed Indy Specialty on I don't wanmt know part of this. ( brads under breath comment was I didn't screw you ) I said the hell you didn't.

Then he said if you don't trust me sign a no compete contract ( which I did this time.)

I have recently learned that i didn't need a no compete contract signed. Samples sent ofr a quote build are protected from production from the quoting company. My Lawyers said even a bad lawyer could win this case.

I then gave Power addiction the go ahead to quote the rods. 3 months later no quote, the 3 months later no quote ( I said brad whats the deal ? ) he said he didn't have time and it looked like they will cost to much to build.

How could brad know what was to much ?? He knew because he was looking at this for his own use and weighing the costs for Power addiction.

A gentalmens hand shake is a binding contract..... so we desided to give this new kid on the block a try........ 3 months later no progress..... I asked what is the deal ?? He said I have been busy flying my airplane. I said we need these done like NOW !!! 3 months later still not product. power addiction said we can't make these it will be to expensive. I started to panic..... then out of the blue we receive a few rods that say made in taiwan on the box ??????

I said whats the deal with this ?? He said this is the only way we could make this work..... go ahead and try them and let me know what you think ??

I was BLOWEN away !!! It was spring time !!! He called and asked how they worked I said i don't know i built two motors and gave them away for testing. I said i won't know for a few years if they work good or not.

Then he asks me how many i want for X number of dollars $$$$$ each ??

I had to laugh the price was high enough for 300 rods to cover his 50 rods for free I am pretty sure..........then over the next 3 days he dropped the price until he said thats as low as he could go...... I said shove them up your a$$.

I have give my lawyers the link to this site, and to this thread.

If this gets pulled by any moderator in bed with Power Addiction ( PAR ) it will have already be copied and pasted so many times it won't matter.

There is nothing in print here that is not true, and there is nothing that is vulgar.

i am to busy to push this to far in the winter months as i am busy trying to keep the Polaris small block on the snow for my customers.

This summer full legal action against power addiction & CVM engaged.

My other post was much better, and I wasn't half as mad as i am now.

I have worked my entire life at this sport and i will not be run over by a spoil little brat that works for CVM in utah.

Dan

Regardless of what happens, this is the first time I have seen a pre-cursor to a legal battle on Sno-West. I wonder how this bodes for the future of the forums?

 

[Scott]

Dan, what is going on? The moderation I've seen here is above the table.

 

[900polman]

Thank you, Dan. 99 % of the people on snowest are looking for help and info as you said. Not every one is a mechanic, machinist, nor can afford to haul a sled to a shop to be repaired. The advice on these forums save alot of bacon for alot of people and they deserve honesty. Im sorry to hear that your partnership went sour. A handshake and your word just doesnt go far anymore.