Weight as you ride VS Dry weight? Pro compared Proclimb/Summit

[mountainhorse]

As far as the coolers... The PRO RMK with the highbrid design cooler that run the full length of the tunnel... those keep the snow off the top of the tunnel.. and the length of the roof of tunnel inside.

They are a continuation of the Dragon design... but slimmed down a bit as they optimized the cooler dimension for most off trail riding.

The cooler, since it is actually part of the tunnel structure, is a very lightweight design... Polaris did their homework on that one for sure.

 

[fatcat65]

this thread is funny...

what i do is eat mexican at pacos tacos the night before a big ride. i then take as many laxatives as i can stomach. through out the day i can crap out about 20 lbs of tacos as well as vent a bunch of super heated methane that keeps the tunnel clear of any pesky weight...2 birds with 1 stone.

im so glad im a rider that just rips the cord and lets my RIDING do the talking instead of dwelling on useless pitter patter that does nothing for my technique.

 

[mountainhorse]

This is actually a good thread....

It brings up a great topic that I've discussed with Polaris...

It is NOT what the sled weighs on the showroom floor (though that is important)

It is what the sled weighs on the hill after it has accumulated ice and snow that sets the characteristics for how the sled performs and feels with that ACTUAL riding weight.

If it is light to start with... and gains less weight in the course of riding...then the sled will perform better.

Coating bare aluminum is just good practice... Sure it will up the "floor" weight a bit... but not the riding weight.

PRO-RMK gain weight in the fwd tunnel area at the "roll" ... could be fixed VERY simply with a thin sheet of UHMW at the factory... and would shed the 10 lbs of ice that accumulates there... weight and parasitic drag from reduced tunnel clearance due to the ice buildup.

Rails... Coat them like Ski Doo XM keeps the snow off.

Tunnel.. Coat that so the snow does not stick (again... an XM thing) HMMM... there onto something here????

Polaris used to coat there stuff... and they coat the Burandt boards.

Plug that obnoxious hole in the nose cone so that the 10 lb chunk of ice does not form there.

The cut-out holes like in the SnowFlap support ... tape or film over them will keep that 5 lb chunk of ice from forming... same for the drop brackets

GET RID OF THE CENTER TRACK DRIVER!... With the track tensions that Polaris requires so that the track does not ratchet... and for efficient operation of the single-ply tracks... this driver is NOT necessary... adds weight and attracts ice build up on the shaft/drivers. Carl's Cycle runs high boost turbos in the back country and on the RMSHA circuit with ONLY involute drivers and NO center driver...

.

 

[super6]

a few years ago snowest did do a weight test with clean sleds and then after they had been ridin' to see how much snow they held.

i'll tell you i love my doo best when its carrying a heavy load of fresh pow

89Sandman: LOVE THIS PIC. Awesome. Ya might just want to give the hood a slight wipe with a gloved hand quick...then pull the rope and pin it!! HAHA.

Let us know what you find with your Summit...do the exchangers run all the way to the back? Do you ride with other brands? How does yours compare as far as snow/ice build up?

 

[super6]

It brings up a great topic that I've discussed with Polaris...

It is NOT what the sled weighs on the showroom floor (though that is important)

It is what the sled weighs on the hill after it has accumulated ice and snow that sets the characteristics for how the sled performs and feels.

If it is light to start with... and gains less weight in the course of riding...then the sled will perform better.

Coating bare aluminum is just good practice... Sure it will up the "floor" weight a bit... but not the riding weight
.

Mountainhorse: This is what I was trying to get at. I am jacked that the PRO is 417 dry...going to drive the whole mtn segment to lighter more agile sleds. The point the guy at arctic cat was making last week (he is a smart guy, wish I could tell you all his name, one of the most respected in the industry) was exactly what you put in your post. It isn't so much the show floor or the dry weight, although that is HUGE...no denying that (neither did he), but it is how it works where we all ride...bottomless powder...yeehaw!

It would be super cool to weigh all 3 in sugar Jan. pow and in heavy spring pow out in the field...might tell us all a lot. To the guys who say "who cares just ride"...couldn't agree more. If I could go ride right now, I wouldn't be on the forum...haha.

Please post some pics of your PRO/Doo/ProClimb loaded up with snow/ice...be interesting to see. Thanks

 

[89sandman]

rode a pro the last 2 years and from the seat back was always covered with a mound of pow. the summit exchanger goes almost all the way back and is right in the middle of the tunnel, it actually is the middle of the tunnel, and have no build up at all. i wouldn't call the couple of square tubes that the pro has a "cooler" that was one of the few things i didn't like about the pro. constantly watching the temp gauge anytime you weren't in at least 8 inches of fresh. i must say the narrow side panels of the pro never had any build a, a plus. i ride mostly with pro's. one of my buddies just picked up an xm, so i'll keep an eye on the buildup.

 

[cateye5312]

Everyone should go over to the Cat forum and see the thread complaining about all the snow buildup on the 2013 Cat front end before you assume the Cats shed snow so well. That thread makes me think they don't!

 

[boondocker1]

Remember that guy named "383" or whatever his name was who claimed his old RMK was 383 pounds.... he posted pictures and didn't have a hood and had a corrugated drain pipe with a T on it for an air intake?

Oh god I miss that guys threads.... some of the funniest crap I ever heard. He said he made his living in the wintertime going to ski doo fan boi rides and riding behind them picking up parts and selling them on ebay.

383lbs800 was his username i believe...hilarious!!!

 

[907sledhead]

Everyone should go over to the Cat forum and see the thread complaining about all the snow buildup on the 2013 Cat front end before you assume the Cats shed snow so well. That thread makes me think they don't!

You noticed that too!!! I was just over there yesterday and was reading all the complaints. My PRO is a 2012 and my main riding buddy is on a new 2013 CAT. We were riding in about 3' of base with 2' of pure pow on top of it the other day. The temps were +20F and we were strictly boondocking the whole day. When we got to his cabin we were looking at the snow and ice on the sleds. The places we noticed much of a difference was at the rear of the running boards around the suspension brackets. The pro had a little more ice buildup there. (No more than a couple of pounds) and the pro also had some ice on the center part of the tunnel from the seat back to the tail light (no more than a couple of pounds) The cat had more around certain areas in the front suspension, but not much. I would bet money that if we weighed them "or just the snow and ice buildup" it would not be more than a few pounds apart in the accumulation. Maybe it would be different if we were riding in wet snow "I don't know" but I don't think there is even close to enough buildup to make up to the lower dry weight.
FWIW

 

[m1kflyingtiger]

Arctic cats mountian testing.

Ok so here's the cat promo video about riding weight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbbeK93CVrQ&sns=em

I feel that that is a lot of snow as well, but seems pretty well thought out and accurately done....however....They measured 94 lbs increase on the pro and 47 lbs on the cat, and the pro was STILL lighter. Only by one pound but still lighter.

I know that this tells me a tunnel top wrap and nose cone block off plate are in my future, possibly a powder coated chassis or cf tunnel...

If the differance of a painted/coated to shed snow sled is 50 lbs in riding weight then I'm going to take the lightest dry sled, with the lightest riding weight AND the eaisest one to improve riding weight on and make it an even better sled.

 

[Jaynelson]

Aight....math class back in.

Leave the poo out for a sec. The Doo started out lighter, and by the end the AC gained 36 LESS lbs that the Doo.

Just that 36 lbs would be an extra 4.32 GALLONS of water. Don't think 4.32 gallons is a lot....go pour 4.32 gallons of milk on your shop floor and let me know how much of a mess it makes. And that's just the extra that Doo supposedly holds over the Cat....not the total. Keeping in mind that Doo has all the same powdercoating/painted bits.

Further on that, lets say ice melts 1:1 into water (close enough). Snow melts 5:1 into water or less....so 5 gallons of average snow would give you 1 gallon of water. So any powdery, light-ish snow is adding very little weight without a HUGE volume of it.

With the pro....they are saying a gain of 94lbs. 94 lbs would be 11.30 GALLONS of water melted off. Over two 5-gallon pails full of solid ice, or over eleven 5-gallon pails full of snow....however you want to split that up. I always park my sled in a heated shop right after riding, and I know what 11 gallons on the ground would look like from my gas station days. It ain't that.....not even close.

Get out the hip-waders....it's getting deep in cat land. Bottom line is....they are trying to justify having the heaviest sled.

 

[Skeld]

Aight....math class back in.

Leave the poo out for a sec. The Doo started out lighter, and by the end the AC gained 36 LESS lbs that the Doo.

Just that 36 lbs would be an extra 4.32 GALLONS of water. Don't think 4.32 gallons is a lot....go pour 4.32 gallons of milk on your shop floor and let me know how much of a mess it makes. And that's just the extra that Doo supposedly holds over the Cat....not the total. Keeping in mind that Doo has all the same powdercoating/painted bits.

Further on that, lets say ice melts 1:1 into water (close enough). Snow melts 5:1 into water or less....so 5 gallons of average snow would give you 1 gallon of water. So any powdery, light-ish snow is adding very little weight without a HUGE volume of it.

With the pro....they are saying a gain of 94lbs. 94 lbs would be 11.30 GALLONS of water melted off. Over two 5-gallon pails full of solid ice, or over eleven 5-gallon pails full of snow....however you want to split that up. I always park my sled in a heated shop right after riding, and I know what 11 gallons on the ground would look like from my gas station days. It ain't that.....not even close.

Get out the hip-waders....it's getting deep in cat land. Bottom line is....they are trying to justify having the heaviest sled.

Yeah this is ridiculous, they are really reaching on this one.

On another note, in the latest American Snowmobiler, the cat pulled 157 HP and the Polaris 142. I lol'd.

 

[m1kflyingtiger]

I know that math and its been somewhat discussed in this thread so far as to how much snow actually weighs and I agree the weights seem quite a bit heavy, just posting the info they are advertising is all.

Another thing that popped into my head is how long they sat after running to weigh them. I know when I stop my sled water runs off of the top and bottom side of the tunnel. Just thinking about the time it takes to rig up a sled and weigh it, I would be curious to see the difference in weight of they weighed them all again in the same order after sitting that long.

 

[Jeff C]

Here is the link to the youtube video that shows the test.

Very interesting.

Tiger: Looks like they are weighing them right on the hill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbbeK93CVrQ&safe=active

 

[knifedge]

Yeah this is ridiculous, they are really reaching on this one.

On another note, in the latest American Snowmobiler, the cat pulled 157 HP and the Polaris 142. I lol'd.

--Weak POS motor(by industry standard) -- of course, if Polaris owners/buyers do not care, then you will continue to get more of the same

 

[knifedge]

--For clarification--

Standard M800 = long coolers = more weight and snow buildup

M800 SnoPro = long coolers = more weight and snow buildup

'13 M800 Limited Edition(shown in video) = short coolers = less weight and less snow buildiup

'12-'13 HCR = short coolers = less weight and less snow buildup

 

[Jaynelson]

--Weak POS motor(by industry standard) -- of course, if Polaris owners/buyers do not care, then you will continue to get more of the same

This thread isn't about the motor. But you could play that game with any manufacturer. Cat version

--Weak + heavy POS chassis (by industry standard) -- of course, if Cat owners/buyers do not care, then they will continue to get more of the same



Again, it's all marketing spin. Trying to downplay their largest disadvantage; weight. If Cat was really as slick as they want you to believe with this video....they would build a sled that doesn't hold snow/ice AND doesn't start out weighing so much more than the others. But it's cheaper to make little videos than to put forth the engineering for that. Until that happens, this is just spin and nothing more.

 

[Leaf27]

rode a pro the last 2 years and from the seat back was always covered with a mound of pow. the summit exchanger goes almost all the way back and is right in the middle of the tunnel, it actually is the middle of the tunnel, and have no build up at all. i wouldn't call the couple of square tubes that the pro has a "cooler" that was one of the few things i didn't like about the pro. constantly watching the temp gauge anytime you weren't in at least 8 inches of fresh. i must say the narrow side panels of the pro never had any build a, a plus. i ride mostly with pro's. one of my buddies just picked up an xm, so i'll keep an eye on the buildup.

Wow that is some nice deep snow! Looks really heavy.

 

[knifedge]

This thread isn't about the motor. But you could play that game with any manufacturer. Cat version

--Weak + heavy POS chassis (by industry standard) -- of course, if Cat owners/buyers do not care, then they will continue to get more of the same



Again, it's all marketing spin. Trying to downplay their largest disadvantage; weight. If Cat was really as slick as they want you to believe with this video....they would build a sled that doesn't hold snow/ice AND doesn't start out weighing so much more than the others. But it's cheaper to make little videos than to put forth the engineering for that. Until that happens, this is just spin and nothing more.

--Well, actually, I for one do care, that is why I am getting a BDX ProLite at 430lbs RTR no fuel and 190+hp.

 

[spider]

I'd give this video a little more cred if there was at least 1 single snowflake on the Cat's running boards !