Actually the Doo clickers don't get near enough credit as they at least try to cater to everyone and every condition. Too bad most guys don't give them much thought.
Ski-Doo vs Polaris: Handling differences?
- Thread starter Rob.G
- Start date
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the old TRA clutch went the opposite way for the clickers? Higher number meant higher rpm? What you are saying hear sounds opposite? If so maybe many guys are turning them the wrong way for desired results?? I brought this up with my Doo buddy last year and he had no response.
V
volcano buster
Well-known member
Do you suppose the higher engagement at higher elevation is to compensate for an engine not creating as much power?
By engaging higher it would allow the engine to have more power at hand and feel less boggy.
I don't know anything about Doo clutches but sounds like a nice system if it is auto correcting for elevation.
I don't have any experience with TRA's and little with the newer P-drive. From what I have heard a lower clickers number shifts faster/less revy with lower peak rpm, higher clickers shifts slower/revyier with higher peak rpm. You use the clicker position to get the feel you want and then add/subtract pin weight to get desired peak rpm, however this appears to contradict what the manual says. All this changes based on sled speed and on/off throttle conditions where back shift quality comes into play. I personally would like slower upshift with a revy throttle feel as a slow upshift promotes good backshift. I'm going to experiment this year.
Cinno
I know the backshift kit lowers engagement from 4100 to about 2800 rpm and engagement is smooth. The skidoo 850 etec is a torque monster at low rpm so it does't require higher rpm as other sleds may. it's very snappy with no bog. As good or better than the Polaris axis and much better than the Arctic cat CTEC I have had in the past.
Cinno
Just came across this forum and read all the comments. After which I had to join and state my opinions, lol.
I currently ride a 22 alfa m8000 154 3in track.
This will be my 3rd year riding it. Has 528 miles on it now. Last sled was a 2008 yamaha nitro, and older more trail type sleds. Sold the nytro and went about 12 years without riding at sled at all. So not a ton of experience but I get around pretty good now, I hated the thing at first its a very hard sled to ride. Doing much better with it now that I've learned to side hill pretty decent. But still struggle with it at times. I can hop on a Polaris, ski-doo and ride much better and have more confidence in my abilities. As soon as I can, hopefully this year, I'm ditching this dumb alfa and going to a 5th gen ski-doo summit x with expert package and a turbo. Or MAYBE a Polaris 9r, would definitely go 9r but I don't trust Polaris, I've had polaris's that gave me trouble and seen several pulled back to the truck. Skidoo seems to be quite a bit more reliable.
I totally disagree with what some of you say here about the alfa being easy to ride, for me it's hands down the hardest to ride. Everyone I let ride it feels the same way. Pretty certain it's the mono rail that is the issue. The alfas are like riding a motorcycle with a flat tire, they require a lot of movement, they're unpredictable, and it definitely don't stay put when you're on a side Hill trying to hold a particular line. If you can't ride a Polaris or ski-doo, sorry, but it's you, or the sleds your trying out have issues or are set up weird.
I currently ride a 22 alfa m8000 154 3in track.
This will be my 3rd year riding it. Has 528 miles on it now. Last sled was a 2008 yamaha nitro, and older more trail type sleds. Sold the nytro and went about 12 years without riding at sled at all. So not a ton of experience but I get around pretty good now, I hated the thing at first its a very hard sled to ride. Doing much better with it now that I've learned to side hill pretty decent. But still struggle with it at times. I can hop on a Polaris, ski-doo and ride much better and have more confidence in my abilities. As soon as I can, hopefully this year, I'm ditching this dumb alfa and going to a 5th gen ski-doo summit x with expert package and a turbo. Or MAYBE a Polaris 9r, would definitely go 9r but I don't trust Polaris, I've had polaris's that gave me trouble and seen several pulled back to the truck. Skidoo seems to be quite a bit more reliable.
I totally disagree with what some of you say here about the alfa being easy to ride, for me it's hands down the hardest to ride. Everyone I let ride it feels the same way. Pretty certain it's the mono rail that is the issue. The alfas are like riding a motorcycle with a flat tire, they require a lot of movement, they're unpredictable, and it definitely don't stay put when you're on a side Hill trying to hold a particular line. If you can't ride a Polaris or ski-doo, sorry, but it's you, or the sleds your trying out have issues or are set up weird.
D
Driver
Well-known member
When talking about pdrive "clikers" there is one very common misconception, especially when talking about turbo. I hear people say clikers are for compensating altitude, but I see it rather as conditions compensation system.
As we all know, BRP turbo compensates elevation keeping the 180hp until 8000ft. So why then there is different clutching for different altitudes below 8000ft? For example, see this chart: https://cdnmedia.endeavorsuite.com/...ab/2022 High Altitude Clutch Calibrations.pdf
So whats its all about: Well ofcourse its the snow. Around sea level, snow pack is usually lower and kind of light, dry snow. When going up the mountais the snow pack is higher and snow is more wet and dense. We all know that this high altitude deep, wet powder is much heavier than this light cold dry snow and rpm wont be the same.
Ski-Doo has tailor made their setups for different altitudes (=snow). So when season changes snow also changes and you can do the fine tuning with clikers.
If you set cliker 1 step up it usually gives you that extra 100-200rpm and vice versa when going down. But the thing is if you are way too off from calibrated area, clikers aint doing so much. In this case you need to go down/up on primary spring end force or lighter/heavier weights etc.
One more thing. Many times people say that they went down on the clikers but still get the overreving in the beginning when hitting full throttle. They think clikers aint working. Well actually they do but you have to understand how. We need to remember that most common used position for clikers is #3 from the factory. With this position, the clutch will be most linear and logical.
BUT when going for positions #2 or even #1, this changes. With lower positions you will more likely get "overshoot" in the beginning but then it gets steady after longer pull. This is because how the ramp weight angle changes between the positions. Sled will feel more revvy and responsive.
And if you lacking rpm, you wanna go up for #4 and even #5. And what happens with these positions is that clutch enganges "stronger", kind of 4-stroke way. Also it wont feel as revvy but will pull stronger straight from the start. In the end on longer pull you will see higher rpm than you saw on position #3.
Here is an old image from 2017-2018?
As we all know, BRP turbo compensates elevation keeping the 180hp until 8000ft. So why then there is different clutching for different altitudes below 8000ft? For example, see this chart: https://cdnmedia.endeavorsuite.com/...ab/2022 High Altitude Clutch Calibrations.pdf
So whats its all about: Well ofcourse its the snow. Around sea level, snow pack is usually lower and kind of light, dry snow. When going up the mountais the snow pack is higher and snow is more wet and dense. We all know that this high altitude deep, wet powder is much heavier than this light cold dry snow and rpm wont be the same.
Ski-Doo has tailor made their setups for different altitudes (=snow). So when season changes snow also changes and you can do the fine tuning with clikers.
If you set cliker 1 step up it usually gives you that extra 100-200rpm and vice versa when going down. But the thing is if you are way too off from calibrated area, clikers aint doing so much. In this case you need to go down/up on primary spring end force or lighter/heavier weights etc.
One more thing. Many times people say that they went down on the clikers but still get the overreving in the beginning when hitting full throttle. They think clikers aint working. Well actually they do but you have to understand how. We need to remember that most common used position for clikers is #3 from the factory. With this position, the clutch will be most linear and logical.
BUT when going for positions #2 or even #1, this changes. With lower positions you will more likely get "overshoot" in the beginning but then it gets steady after longer pull. This is because how the ramp weight angle changes between the positions. Sled will feel more revvy and responsive.
And if you lacking rpm, you wanna go up for #4 and even #5. And what happens with these positions is that clutch enganges "stronger", kind of 4-stroke way. Also it wont feel as revvy but will pull stronger straight from the start. In the end on longer pull you will see higher rpm than you saw on position #3.
Here is an old image from 2017-2018?
D
Driver
Well-known member
I do identify this problem. But there are few simple fixes and not that expensive if you want to improve handling, especially when snow isnt optimal.
First of all, Ski-Doo stock ski rubbers suck big time! Its small, weak an fragile. Will work fine on good powder though. There are many good options, for example: Install rubbers from lynx shredder, salazzking or DJ (havent tried dj myself but I believe it works).
Second one is the spindle, if you are riding summit or older freeride (2023 or older). The deep snow spindle introduced for 2020, has more caster (its "leaning" more back) and brings a bit more stability on high speeds and also more feedback from the ski. 2024+ freeride spindle is more upwards and works better on most conditions. So I would give it a go if ski rubber change wont do enough.
Third one is the ski. If you still feel that front end is too twitchy, best ski replacements are Gripper or SLP Mohawk. SLP is more aggressive, but Gripper is very well balanced all season around ski. Some also do ride the older DS3 ski which they find better. But will be interesting how the 2025 rewised DS4 ski works.
For most of my friends and customers the ski rubber fix is enough. Some have installed new freeride spindles. Very few end up switching the skis also.
I have only ever owned Polaris. I had never even ridden any Skidoo, until Saturday when I rode a 2024 Summit Expert turbo 165. I was immediately comfortable. First thing that jumped out at me was the steering angle and how light the steering effort felt on the trail, yet the carbides bit and it effortlessly went wherever I turned the bars. It felt like power steering. Any Polaris mountain sled I have ever ridden on a trail has had very heavy feeling steering by comparison and often feels like you’re fighting every corner. In the trees with lots of old tracks, I was strangely at home on the Doo. I was really blown away by the power curve. It was like I was riding an NA sled until I gave it lots of throttle and could hear the turbo and feel the extra power. That is a big contrast from the Boost I owned. I had given up completely on turbo sleds and reserved myself an NA guy, but that Skidoo has me rethinking that philosophy.
Unfortunately I didn’t really get a chance to sidehill the Gen 5, which is one of the things I’ve been most curious about. The chassis felt very smooth and refined. I also liked the variable hand warmer temp control versus Polaris high/low/off. SHOT start was really nice. I just ride pull start sleds these days since I don’t care for the Polaris e-start.
My current sled is a 23 9R Khaos 165 with Ibexx clutching. One thing that has really been attracting me to a Skidoo is the lay down steering angle. Two surgeries a year apart have left me with about 50% range of motion in the right wrist and 50% ROM in my right thumb. In addition things are pretty stiff and tight. So anyway, I have this weird issue, where when I am riding neutral, on edge, carving left, while countersteered right, I am nearly unable to operate the throttle anymore. The Polaris steering plane brings the right grip awkwardly high and close to my torso, which pretty much renders my hand useless, and I am often forced to relinquish my grip on the throttle flipper, losing all my momentum, and falling over. I thought a finger throttle might remedy this, but it was worse. Anyway during this same maneuver on a Skidoo the right hand is positioned lower and more away from my torso which allows me to maintain control. This is a huge thing for me since a carving maneuver is often executed to get out of a stressful spot or situation. This isn’t as much a problem when carving left from wrong foot forward.
Switching brands is somewhat of a big deal, since my wife and I ride very remote backcountry areas, and I would be giving up a lot of mechanical familiarity and knowledge for a machine that I wouldn’t even know how to take off the side panel. Our collection of spare parts, our travel covers, and tunnel bags would be useless and I would be giving up 7S, which could be remedied with the Trail Tech I guess. I wouldn’t even know how to begin putting together a backcountry tool kit for a Skidoo…
The narrative of Polaris being the most precise machine has always been what drew me to them, but now I am wondering if this no longer applies as much to the newer equipment. I am super curious if my wife could benefit from the claimed ease of riding a Summit X with T-motion and flex edge, or does this make things squirrelly and unstable feeling when in bad conditions? She didn’t ride the Doo since she had just had a negative experience on a 154 Catalyst 600 lol, but I think she would have loved it.
One last point, I find the goofy frog look from the front to be ugly as hell, but if I’m being honest I didn’t even notice that while I was riding it…
Unfortunately I didn’t really get a chance to sidehill the Gen 5, which is one of the things I’ve been most curious about. The chassis felt very smooth and refined. I also liked the variable hand warmer temp control versus Polaris high/low/off. SHOT start was really nice. I just ride pull start sleds these days since I don’t care for the Polaris e-start.
My current sled is a 23 9R Khaos 165 with Ibexx clutching. One thing that has really been attracting me to a Skidoo is the lay down steering angle. Two surgeries a year apart have left me with about 50% range of motion in the right wrist and 50% ROM in my right thumb. In addition things are pretty stiff and tight. So anyway, I have this weird issue, where when I am riding neutral, on edge, carving left, while countersteered right, I am nearly unable to operate the throttle anymore. The Polaris steering plane brings the right grip awkwardly high and close to my torso, which pretty much renders my hand useless, and I am often forced to relinquish my grip on the throttle flipper, losing all my momentum, and falling over. I thought a finger throttle might remedy this, but it was worse. Anyway during this same maneuver on a Skidoo the right hand is positioned lower and more away from my torso which allows me to maintain control. This is a huge thing for me since a carving maneuver is often executed to get out of a stressful spot or situation. This isn’t as much a problem when carving left from wrong foot forward.
Switching brands is somewhat of a big deal, since my wife and I ride very remote backcountry areas, and I would be giving up a lot of mechanical familiarity and knowledge for a machine that I wouldn’t even know how to take off the side panel. Our collection of spare parts, our travel covers, and tunnel bags would be useless and I would be giving up 7S, which could be remedied with the Trail Tech I guess. I wouldn’t even know how to begin putting together a backcountry tool kit for a Skidoo…
The narrative of Polaris being the most precise machine has always been what drew me to them, but now I am wondering if this no longer applies as much to the newer equipment. I am super curious if my wife could benefit from the claimed ease of riding a Summit X with T-motion and flex edge, or does this make things squirrelly and unstable feeling when in bad conditions? She didn’t ride the Doo since she had just had a negative experience on a 154 Catalyst 600 lol, but I think she would have loved it.
One last point, I find the goofy frog look from the front to be ugly as hell, but if I’m being honest I didn’t even notice that while I was riding it…
I wish you could have rode the Ski-Doo on a good sidehill. Thats one area, that at times is difficult for me, but I ride a 22 arctic cat alpha, which I find very hard to ride most the time.
Would also like to hear your wife's opinion as well.
I definitely want something different, really like the new skidoos, but also like a couple of the polaris's I've gotten to ride as well. Due to shot and what seems like better reliability I think I'm leaning towards a 2025 skidoo turbo, with the expert package. I hate fighting the sled to get it to go where I want, next sled I want to be very predictable and easy to ride. I'm always searching for reviews and opinions like yours.
Right before I took out the Skidoo, I rode an 858 Catalyst 165. I don’t want to knock any brand, but I am being honest, and maybe it was that particular sled, but to me it felt crude, vibrated a lot, and power felt very soft from low through mid. It could be that I’m used to a well clutched 9R, but even my wife’s 850 Polaris feels stronger off bottom, which was unexpected. I only spent a short time in the trees because I just did not connect at all with that thing. The throttle reminded me of my old Boost where there isn’t much power until revs really start to build, then there’s tons of power and then it hooks up, shoots out of the hole, yanking my arms and getting me left behind, then needing heavy brake to reset. I’m sure some clutching and some seat time with it and it would be better. I just didn’t like the unstable feeling of that monorail when poking slowly through trees where there was a mix of hard tracks and soft snow. The amount of traction from that track was outstanding, as was the Doo track really. Definitely better than my 2.75 series 8 track on my 9R. Honestly though it’s pretty hard to form a fair opinion having spent such a short time on it, and without a good variety of conditions. I bet in shines in deep conditions.
It didn’t help that I forgot to brief my wife on how tippy the monorail was going to feel as compared to her 850 Matryx Pro RMK 165. While I was in the trees she decided to try an off camber 3 point turn and flopped the sled over on its side in the middle of the trail. She couldn’t right the sled as she had to lift it uphill, and a traffic jam developed before I could get to her lol. Needless to say she was pretty flustered and embarrassed, so not the best introduction to the catalyst for her lol.
My 9R is really a point and shoot machine where you can more or less go wherever you look. It is very confidence inspiring in most terrain and conditions. Not even sure if it makes sense to consider anything else, but I always can’t help but wonder if there’s something else out there I’m missing out on that is maybe a better fit (especially with the hand issue).
My biggest takeaway was at least now I know I could ride and be happy on a Skidoo. Before having ridden one I imagined it might feel so weird and different that I might never connect with it, especially when you listen to some of the social media stuff, which I find there’s often a huge disparity between what I see on there, versus our real world experiences in the mountains and what we personally see. That definitely applies to the reliability thing as well.
The polaris is more precise in the trees. The 858 is a fun sled but no 9r killer. I actually like the doo steering better when standing because it's easier on my shoulders. People will tell you one is better than the other. All what your used to. Really surprised you felt right at home immediately on the doo when coming from polaris. Steering usually throws people for a loop. I actually like all three.
I was really surprised too, but I’m wondering if it was due to motorcycles/motocross and other powersports background.
Maybe but you are one of the few I've seen
I can ride either but I've had a little of everything. I have bud that are in to anything powersport and hate the doo when riding for 5 minutes. They can jump on cat and that doesn't bother them. Also have die hard doo buddies that jump on vertical steering and hate it.
Yeah it's hard to get the truth out of some of these media sources. I suppose how they feel about a sled is probably true but for the rest of us, and in my opinion, they are way off from the way I feel when I get on a sled. I hate the alpha setup, and while some say they're easy to ride, I find that they're not easy at all. You have to really have a lot of practice on the alpha and in my opinion it just takes too much time to learn when it don't take much time to get on either the Polaris or Ski-Doos and have a much easier time getting them to go where you want them. I rode a few different Ski-Doos this year and I really like them, I don't feel that they're heavy and that they're in any way hard to ride or get used to. But that is coming off an alpha and anything seems to be easier to ride than that.
I would like to rent one for a full day and try getting it into more scenarios.
You should and see for yourself. I actually think brand loyalty is the dumbest thing ever. I also think you will find that even though they steer twice as easy, sometimes, you steer them 3 times as much. It is in lesser snow that I'm not a fan of spindle. Probably my favorite motor of the three. They are more playful than polaris but the kaos has lessened that. They climb better but don't crawl on the snow like the poo. The other one i don't understand is people trying to make them like a polaris. You don't have too. Polaris makes that.
Newer sleds handle much different that what you were riding previously and spending a few hours/riding sessions learning some new school techniques will help out immensely.
Practice being on edge a lot, do this slowly, put it on edge wrong foot forward while not moving/in the garage without the motor running. Do it many times on both sides and find the balance point. Then do it on snow, once on edge not moving add a little throttle, use the free leg to periodically reset the balance on edge as you move slowly along kind of skipping along. Just practice this slot and the balance on edge will come, don’t pick up much speed. It won’t take long and you will easily pop up on edge while in neutral position and be able to ride down the trail on one ski on either side. Use steering and throttle to maintain your edge and speed.
All of the modern mountain sleds are capable, there will be the learning curve you are going through to learn how to ride a modern mountain sled in challenging terrain.
Cheers
I have to say as a long time doo owner that the polaris is just a better handling sled. I just came back from revy for a 4 day trip and I have a 23 skidoo turbo r 154 3 inch and had my 22 polaris matryx slash 155 2.6.
I rode my polaris and turbo doo on this trip and the polaris is just so much better in the tight trees and on steep sidehills, it really is confidence inspiring compared to the doo, I would always feel on edge riding the doo through a steep sidehill because Ive been bucked off my line a few times where the polaris just seems to cut right through. And yes a polaris will hold a steeper sidehill than the doo thats a fact.
I love the power of the doo but I would reserve that sled for just really deep days because thats where it shines.
I rode my polaris and turbo doo on this trip and the polaris is just so much better in the tight trees and on steep sidehills, it really is confidence inspiring compared to the doo, I would always feel on edge riding the doo through a steep sidehill because Ive been bucked off my line a few times where the polaris just seems to cut right through. And yes a polaris will hold a steeper sidehill than the doo thats a fact.
I love the power of the doo but I would reserve that sled for just really deep days because thats where it shines.
The sidehill handling is what makes me want a Polaris, but power and what I feel is more reliable less likely to give me trouble are the main reasons I want a turboed skidoo. I'd have to get on a newer Polaris a couple more times. But I feel it's the easiest sled to ride out of the 3 brands.
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