Water ingestion causing engine failures?

[arcticridr]

Yes not sure about the ctech 800's but have built several of the 900's which was a Suzuki mill, main crank bearings in that motor are friggin massive , two of the ones I did had 5,000 miles on them running Amsoil interceptor , one crank had .001 runout and the other .003 think cat calls for .003-
.005 bearings were pristine , hope the 858 cranks and internals are as robust , gonna run a little extra oil for a while I think !!

 

[favoritos]

Watch the airbox seal when you set the hood. The seating surface gasket is not sealing on the back side. The hood section has a ridge that should be around the outside of the lower gasket. In most cases it sits right on the rubber gasket. That leaves a gap you can see by poking a light in from the right side.
Not sure how much snow can get to the gap, but it is an open pathway to the airbox.

 

[tenacious84]

couple of 858 engines going down seem to be crank bearing seizures or spun crank bearings......likely suspect being not enough oil in crankcase, our epa doing their job(gag)...once mine came off the enrichening cycle, i've been adding 1.5 oz of oil per gallon of fuel....no downside to this other than nominal cost (but whats a couple of bucks for oil)....i've had several rides in blower powder with no hiccups....do get some ice buildup behind screens at front of engine, but doesn't seem to get in air box.....haven't opened the hood while i have been riding, having too much fun....but i think i will in the next ride or two, have to have a nice day with powder though.

I've seen references to adding oil to the fuel a few different places recently, but people are forgetting these engines don't use a carburetor or throttle body injection. The 858, just like the ctec 800 after the revision in 2020, injects fuel into the boost port and the fuel does not travel through the crankcase. Adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crankshaft bearings. At most it would only help lubricate the cylinder walls during the exhaust/compression stroke. Is there benefit to that? Possibly, but I'm not sure. However, I am sure adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crank bearings.

 

[arcticridr]

Sounds to be a valid point , anybody have anymore thoughts on whether adding oil is like greasing a brake squeal

 

[cubby]

I've seen references to adding oil to the fuel a few different places recently, but people are forgetting these engines don't use a carburetor or throttle body injection. The 858, just like the ctec 800 after the revision in 2020, injects fuel into the boost port and the fuel does not travel through the crankcase. Adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crankshaft bearings. At most it would only help lubricate the cylinder walls during the exhaust/compression stroke. Is there benefit to that? Possibly, but I'm not sure. However, I am sure adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crank bearings.

I've also heard that the newer injectors don't like oil, not sure about cat's but I know other brands have said not to add oil to the fuel

 

[Vern]

Got out on my first ride yesterday, 1-1.5 feet of fluff, not blower powder but still fluffy enough to come over the hood. Put on about 30 miles. I was beat when I got home so didn’t pull the hood then, but went out today and pulled it. There was two small drops in the lower airbox, but I had been running the heater in the trailer for a few hours prior to melt the sled off, so it could have been condensation. Squished the foam piece in the front of the air box and no water ran out but fingers were damp after. I ripped that piece of foam out for piece of mind and am currently pulling the foam off the side panels cuz they’re soaked and water pours out if you squish them. They’re pretty much sponges. While I had the hood off I stuck a flashlight in it and the lower air box and didn’t see any light shining through any of the seems, so for now I’m just gonna send it.

On another note, sled ran great, seemed to be down a couple hundred rpm as the day warmed up and we got up near 9000ft, but in the morning near the truck around 7700ft she was tacking 8-8100 and screaming. She’s a handful compared to the ascender.

 

[dunatyk]

Got out on my first ride yesterday, 1-1.5 feet of fluff, not blower powder but still fluffy enough to come over the hood. Put on about 30 miles. I was beat when I got home so didn’t pull the hood then, but went out today and pulled it. There was two small drops in the lower airbox, but I had been running the heater in the trailer for a few hours prior to melt the sled off, so it could have been condensation. Squished the foam piece in the front of the air box and no water ran out but fingers were damp after. I ripped that piece of foam out for piece of mind and am currently pulling the foam off the side panels cuz they’re soaked and water pours out if you squish them. They’re pretty much sponges. While I had the hood off I stuck a flashlight in it and the lower air box and didn’t see any light shining through any of the seems, so for now I’m just gonna send it.

On another note, sled ran great, seemed to be down a couple hundred rpm as the day warmed up and we got up near 9000ft, but in the morning near the truck around 7700ft she was tacking 8-8100 and screaming. She’s a handful compared to the ascender.

Vern I rode yesterday also first ride out. I seen similar with my airbox but i pulled it in a heated shop when i got home. I was pulling 8-8100 end of day same about 30 miles. What zone did you ride?

 

[Vern]

Vern I rode yesterday also first ride out. I seen similar with my airbox but i pulled it in a heated shop when i got home. I was pulling 8-8100 end of day same about 30 miles. What zone did you ride?

We were at the sinks up Logan canyon

 

[dunatyk]

We were at the sinks up Logan canyon

We rode Franklin yesterday

 

[Vern]

We rode Franklin yesterday

How was that? Sinks was pretty much trashed already until we got back into the trees a ways and hit up some of our not so secret secret spots. Definitely needs a reset and a few more feet.

 

[J270wsm]

I've seen references to adding oil to the fuel a few different places recently, but people are forgetting these engines don't use a carburetor or throttle body injection. The 858, just like the ctec 800 after the revision in 2020, injects fuel into the boost port and the fuel does not travel through the crankcase. Adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crankshaft bearings. At most it would only help lubricate the cylinder walls during the exhaust/compression stroke. Is there benefit to that? Possibly, but I'm not sure. However, I am sure adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the

I've seen references to adding oil to the fuel a few different places recently, but people are forgetting these engines don't use a carburetor or throttle body injection. The 858, just like the ctec 800 after the revision in 2020, injects fuel into the boost port and the fuel does not travel through the crankcase. Adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crankshaft bearings. At most it would only help lubricate the cylinder walls during the exhaust/compression stroke. Is there benefit to that? Possibly, but I'm not sure. However, I am sure adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crank bearings.

so how does the engine get oiled?

 

[dunatyk]

How was that? Sinks was pretty much trashed already until we got back into the trees a ways and hit up some of our not so secret secret spots. Definitely needs a reset and a few more feet.

Sketchy. Need more snow

 

[turboless terry]

I wasn't necessarily impressed. Sled is awesome. Motor or clutch or combo of both, not so much. Felt like the Demos they supposedly fixed. Doo motor has better bottom end. Definitely not a 9r killer. Definitely fun though. Second day I lost reverse and estart. Thawed it out and apparently just froze up. Bogged a few times.

 

[MTN_VIPER]

 

[MTN_VIPER]

Pic from the service manual above shows how the 858 gets oiled directly into the crankcase. C-Tech 800 is similar to the 858.

 

[Vern]

I wasn't necessarily impressed. Sled is awesome. Motor or clutch or combo of both, not so much. Felt like the Demos they supposedly fixed. Doo motor has better bottom end. Definitely not a 9r killer. Definitely fun though. Second day I lost reverse and estart. Thawed it out and apparently just froze up. Bogged a few times.

Snow can get packed behind the lip on the estart/reverse button. I had it happen a few times on my ‘20 alpha with estart.

Granted it’s been since last season that I rode my ‘20, but I thought the 858 felt way stronger than my jaws piped and tuned ‘20. Clutching felt pretty good overall too to me other than the loss of a couple hundred rpm as I mentioned above later in the day. pretty instant response and back shift seemed pretty good. Would pick the skis up at the blip of the throttle. No bogs for me so far.

 

[J270wsm]

View attachment 428345

I seen a different pic with those fittings but but it didn’t have the oil lines.

 

[BeartoothBaron]

I've seen references to adding oil to the fuel a few different places recently, but people are forgetting these engines don't use a carburetor or throttle body injection. The 858, just like the ctec 800 after the revision in 2020, injects fuel into the boost port and the fuel does not travel through the crankcase. Adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crankshaft bearings. At most it would only help lubricate the cylinder walls during the exhaust/compression stroke. Is there benefit to that? Possibly, but I'm not sure. However, I am sure adding oil to the fuel provides no benefit to the crank bearings.

My understanding is that below about half throttle the bottom end gets some backwash. This is based on a handout from Indy Specialties, specifically regarding break-in on Polaris engines, but it seems the CTEC 800 and 858 would be similar. The recommendation was to premix the first tank 40:1 and not exceed half throttle until it's verified the oil pump is pumping, then continue to premix for a couple tanks (obviously, no break-in mode at play). The amount that reaches the bearings in typical use might not be enough to keep it going long, but it's something. Most of the benefit is to the top end though; that's the best reason I've heard for adding a little pre-mix. It's hard to say how much good it does, but with EPA requirements and the desire to minimize smoke driving oil use to a minimum, a little extra oil does seem like a good idea.

 

[BFisher]

Getting close to the 400 mile mark, all of which in Revelstoke. I have checked the airbox a time or two and have found zero signs of water. I did adjust the hood latch bolt so it made the seal tighter as mine had some play in it from factory. I do run a little pre mix in the tank and also spike it with some 100LL.

 

[tenacious84]

My understanding is that below about half throttle the bottom end gets some backwash.

can you describe what you mean by backwash?