Water ingestion causing engine failures?

[Vern]

Water ingestion seems to be the latest theory on faceyspace on why 858’s are blowing up. Those that have had there sleds out already, are you seeing much water in the intake? I haven’t had the chance to ride mine yet, but hoping to get out in the next couple days and wondering if this is something needing addressed like on the proclimb/ascender. Had high hopes the new hood/intake design fixed this issue.

 

[joshkoltes]

Saw that, they were squeezing a ton of water out of the foam inside the airbox

That'll be the first thing to go on mine

 

[Chewy22]

Those videos were crazy. I've read a few comments that guys found a lot of water in the airbox after open hauling in rain storms or leaving the sled out in a rain storm. Pretty concerning. Type of snow will play a big part.

Hopefully BDX or someone designs something similar to the Pro-Tectair. Something like that in the upper plenum and sealing the seam on the lower box, should stop most of it.

As a short term fix what is everyone's thoughts on drilling 1/8" holes in the lowest part of the bottom airbox? I think the holes would be small enough snow would not get in but would doing that cause any warranty concerns?

 

[Dam Dave]

No water in mine after my trip to Montana over Christmas

 

[ratlover]

Is Snow ingestion or water the theory? Can see how it would be worse than the ascender with the intakes if its getting hit with outside water.

 

[Vern]

Most of the videos on line are showing guys spraying the intake with water and it getting in, that’s why I was asking for opinions on people that have actually ridden them in the snow to see if it’s a legit issue. Sounds like I might be finally getting out on mine tomorrow, so guess I’ll see what happens. I’ll pull the hood when I get home if I’m not completely beat from being the first ride. I was wondering if maybe fine snow is getting pulled through the intake prefilters as most of the blown sleds I’ve seen in videos are in over the hood fluff.

 

[koolaid]

I have had three rides with my 858, two of them in good powder, no moisture in the air box.

 

[Krause09]

I’m at 14 hrs in heavy cascade concrete, no water either!

 

[tswan]

3 blower deep days on mine no motor down yet..no stumbles from air intake with lots of snow on it either...someone on the internet/snowest keeps saying this is impossible and the cat should have exploded by now.

 

[Chewy22]

Great to see a lot of you are not having problems, but I've seen enough photos to know it's still an issue. It was an issue on the ascender chassis also.

 

[akdanno]

After leaving mine out in the rain for a couple days, I had water in the air box and hood. It could be seen by looking through the frog skins on top. I don't think it's an issue with the seals, water passes through the screens themselves. Haven't had it put in deep powder yet, but I'll be keeping the cover on it for transport

 

[steenso]

Great chassis, workmanship is questionable especially at the price Cat was setting for the new Catalyst 858. Seems we continue to pay more for whatever we purchase nowadays be it trucks, boats, etc only to return to the dealer- WTF. Welcome to The New World. As the saying goes after using a Craftsman you’ll never go back to a Tradesman. Tough to fine Craftsman these days!

 

[Old & slow]

Mine has been dry in side i have been checking after every ride. I think if you hauling in the rain or leaving it uncovered in the rain sure water is going to get in. One guy on here did have a gap on the intake he sealed up . Mine is sealed good. I don't recall any issues with water from last season but maybe the snow conditions are different. It seems that a lot of the failures are early hour ones and that is usually a parts or assembly problem.

 

[slyrydr]

couple of 858 engines going down seem to be crank bearing seizures or spun crank bearings......likely suspect being not enough oil in crankcase, our epa doing their job(gag)...once mine came off the enrichening cycle, i've been adding 1.5 oz of oil per gallon of fuel....no downside to this other than nominal cost (but whats a couple of bucks for oil)....i've had several rides in blower powder with no hiccups....do get some ice buildup behind screens at front of engine, but doesn't seem to get in air box.....haven't opened the hood while i have been riding, having too much fun....but i think i will in the next ride or two, have to have a nice day with powder though.

 

[slyrydr]

another thought on the ingestion ..... water in the intake likely to cause piston scuffing and seizure, whereas bottom end bearing failure likely due to insufficient oil...just my experience ( at 80 years old, there's been a little)

 

[arcticridr]

Slyrydr get the f outta dodge 80 and sporting an 858 !! 65 here ride a hardcore alpha and just getting ready to sport the 858 , keep us posted on the failure analysis if it's oil or lack their of , pretty easy to add an ounce per gallon for insurance you rock at 80

 

[arcticridr]

Still gonna pull it apart when I get it and check for gaps like I did on the 2020 alpha resealed the whole lid on the 20 and no issues , do the old run through look over and protect anything that even remotely looks like it could rub through , been doing that since my new 2005 King cat , a little wire loom and heat tape goes along ways for protection !!

 

[dunatyk]

Rode mine for the first time today, got around 30 miles. Ran good seemed to loosed up as the day went on. On one of my stops today I pulled the right side panel to look in and check exhaust springs. What I found was a good amount of snow built up right below the ECU on top of the frame and by the lower plenum. So naturally I was concerned about moisture in the air box. When I got home I pulled the hood and everything was nice and dry. I started looking at where the snow could come in and with a flashlight I found some gaps between the frame and the plastic right by the upper A-Arm mounts. I plan on sealing that area up and hope that it solves it. I’ll report back what I find. Now to solve the problem of the rivet rubbing on the drive clutch when side hilling to the left

 

[Chad_Brochill]

couple of 858 engines going down seem to be crank bearing seizures or spun crank bearings......likely suspect being not enough oil in crankcase, our epa doing their job(gag)...once mine came off the enrichening cycle, i've been adding 1.5 oz of oil per gallon of fuel....no downside to this other than nominal cost (but whats a couple of bucks for oil)....i've had several rides in blower powder with no hiccups....do get some ice buildup behind screens at front of engine, but doesn't seem to get in air box.....haven't opened the hood while i have been riding, having too much fun....but i think i will in the next ride or two, have to have a nice day with powder though.

Just an fyi, the term spun a bearing comes from journal bearings which are used in systems that have oil pumps that recirculate oil in a sump, like in four strokes. Conventional gasoline two strokes to my knowledge do not use journal style bearings because the crankcases cannot be filled with oil. Instead they all use either roller or ball bearings. I haven't heard a definitive answer as to what is causing some 858's to seize or blow up. I would love it if dealers would share more information with the consumers. There were 800 Ctecs that also blew up in 2018 in small numbers so its not like this is a new thing and it does seem like cat has been good about getting them warrantied.

I also think the EPA is a joke that just hurts the lowly consumer, especially for power sports related things. They have also screwed over modern diesels lol.

The extra oil in the fuel is a good idea until we know what is really going on that is causing them to blow.

 

[Chad_Brochill]

I Just took a look at some part numbers and it seems that Cat is using the same main crank bearings and conrod bearings that were in the 800 ctecs. The main crank bearings are even the same part number. So undersized bearings is likely not the issue, those bearings in the 800 ctecs were already big to begin with. Could be oiling issues, crank shafts being out of spec, and could also be the top ends seizing up too.