Thanks Dan and thanks again for your efforts. If there's anything else we can do to help those knuckleheads in Olympia understand where we are coming from, let us know.
Venting....plows and why we pay taxes
- Thread starter winter brew
- Start date
Thanks Dan and thanks again for your efforts. If there's anything else we can do to help those knuckleheads in Olympia understand where we are coming from, let us know.
D
deepdiver
Well-known member
Great questions Eric and fairly good answers Dan..thanks!
Dan had it correct and so did Eric in re to the groomers that run when not needed. Many "contracted" gromers are paid by mile groomed. So if they are not grooming they are not getting paid. Doing this would be mis approation of funds of tax money as far as I am concerned. I think Eric hit the nail on the head..mis-managed!
Dan....Not all groomers come up short..in fact while I was on the groomer commity and a board of directors member for a snowmobile club in this state I can tell you that there is money to be made in contractgrooming if managed properly with investements and of course counting for volunteer labor.
Baker grooming is a whole different world all together.
Dan had it correct and so did Eric in re to the groomers that run when not needed. Many "contracted" gromers are paid by mile groomed. So if they are not grooming they are not getting paid. Doing this would be mis approation of funds of tax money as far as I am concerned. I think Eric hit the nail on the head..mis-managed!
Dan....Not all groomers come up short..in fact while I was on the groomer commity and a board of directors member for a snowmobile club in this state I can tell you that there is money to be made in contractgrooming if managed properly with investements and of course counting for volunteer labor.
Baker grooming is a whole different world all together.
Dan,
I want to say thanks for all of your efforts. It may not sound like it but it is greatly appreciated by all of us. When I went to renew my tabs, I was asked if I wanted to donate $5 to the parks department. Is there something like this that we could do until the tab fees can be increased? By the way, thanks for getting me that Triton light switch so quick.
I want to say thanks for all of your efforts. It may not sound like it but it is greatly appreciated by all of us. When I went to renew my tabs, I was asked if I wanted to donate $5 to the parks department. Is there something like this that we could do until the tab fees can be increased? By the way, thanks for getting me that Triton light switch so quick.
I've been riding Baker for 18 years or so. It seems the whole time, the grooming has always been so-so, some days are great, some days really suck. Some observations in last couple years that seem odd to me are...
Last year in January the road was nothing but ice but the groomer was still running. It was still icy and the whoops never got knocked down.
The road never seems to be groomed flat except for the start of the season. The rest of the season, it always has these big rolling whoops even after the groomer goes through.
The groomer runs on the weekdays. I'm sure there's a few folks that regularly ride during the week, most of us don't.
They groom the blue lake trail that doesn't get used.
Just a few suggestions....
When there hasn't been any new snow and the road is nothing but ice, don't run the groomer. Save the funds for later in the season when it really needs to be groomed.
Quit grooming the blue lake trail, put the focus on the main road up and trail to the dam.
Quit grooming during the weekdays. It should be done on Friday night and Saturday night if two days of grooming are allowed. Otherwise it should only be done on Friday night or early Saturday morning.
And lastly, I have ridden on many trails that are groomed flat. Is there some reason the Baker trail can't be groomed flat? Is it an operator issue or an equipment issue? Are the temps to warm for the snow to setup right? I've never operated a groomer so I gotta ask.
Last year in January the road was nothing but ice but the groomer was still running. It was still icy and the whoops never got knocked down.
The road never seems to be groomed flat except for the start of the season. The rest of the season, it always has these big rolling whoops even after the groomer goes through.
The groomer runs on the weekdays. I'm sure there's a few folks that regularly ride during the week, most of us don't.
They groom the blue lake trail that doesn't get used.
Just a few suggestions....
When there hasn't been any new snow and the road is nothing but ice, don't run the groomer. Save the funds for later in the season when it really needs to be groomed.
Quit grooming the blue lake trail, put the focus on the main road up and trail to the dam.
Quit grooming during the weekdays. It should be done on Friday night and Saturday night if two days of grooming are allowed. Otherwise it should only be done on Friday night or early Saturday morning.
And lastly, I have ridden on many trails that are groomed flat. Is there some reason the Baker trail can't be groomed flat? Is it an operator issue or an equipment issue? Are the temps to warm for the snow to setup right? I've never operated a groomer so I gotta ask.
this is just my opion
Maybe someone needs to look into how other states run there plowing programs. Like Oregon there u pay 10$ ever to yours for your sled. I ride tollgate alot and they r using grooming every Sunday and Thursday nights up there and the money that is used for grooming come from the club from what i understand.
Now for the plowing of the snow parks, i don't really know who des that but they have always seemed to be plowed out every time i head up . but i usably wait tell there is about 4 feet of snow b4 i head up.
As for the idea of pay booths at the trial head . Hum what club member would want to set in alittle booth making sure everyone has a permit, who would enforce it, ? I think we should have the state drop the price and sell to wssa clubs r members and have dealerships r clubs sell them for a set amount so the club and the state makes money, if the r should by a dealer ship the money would be sent to wssa and they would split the money up between need places for grooming and plowing.
WE have to understand that the snow parks wont be plowed every time we go. and the trails don't always stay nice and groomed. Have anyone ever know someone that does road plowing. it isn't a ez job u get woke up at 3 am if there is snow. u miss holidays if the roads need plowed. u Lois your days off because of it, thees guys have it hard enough without some ppl giving them a hard time because they didn't do a snow park, The state r county road crews r not responsible for snow parks.
Here is a idea if it makes u mad that your favorite snow park isn't plowed out all the time go by a quad with plow on it and spend your own money and time doing it.
Yes the state does get money to plow snow parks but how many of them r the all through out the state .Are tab money goes to take care of all of them not just the one that u use in your area. So ppl thank of big picture and if there is a problem help solve it not make it bigger by yell and cussing at ppl. To say is not as ez to make as now park bigger there is a lot of stuff The has to looked into. Such as the effect of more hard scape on the local watershed and the environment.
Maybe someone needs to look into how other states run there plowing programs. Like Oregon there u pay 10$ ever to yours for your sled. I ride tollgate alot and they r using grooming every Sunday and Thursday nights up there and the money that is used for grooming come from the club from what i understand.
Now for the plowing of the snow parks, i don't really know who des that but they have always seemed to be plowed out every time i head up . but i usably wait tell there is about 4 feet of snow b4 i head up.
As for the idea of pay booths at the trial head . Hum what club member would want to set in alittle booth making sure everyone has a permit, who would enforce it, ? I think we should have the state drop the price and sell to wssa clubs r members and have dealerships r clubs sell them for a set amount so the club and the state makes money, if the r should by a dealer ship the money would be sent to wssa and they would split the money up between need places for grooming and plowing.
WE have to understand that the snow parks wont be plowed every time we go. and the trails don't always stay nice and groomed. Have anyone ever know someone that does road plowing. it isn't a ez job u get woke up at 3 am if there is snow. u miss holidays if the roads need plowed. u Lois your days off because of it, thees guys have it hard enough without some ppl giving them a hard time because they didn't do a snow park, The state r county road crews r not responsible for snow parks.
Here is a idea if it makes u mad that your favorite snow park isn't plowed out all the time go by a quad with plow on it and spend your own money and time doing it.
Yes the state does get money to plow snow parks but how many of them r the all through out the state .Are tab money goes to take care of all of them not just the one that u use in your area. So ppl thank of big picture and if there is a problem help solve it not make it bigger by yell and cussing at ppl. To say is not as ez to make as now park bigger there is a lot of stuff The has to looked into. Such as the effect of more hard scape on the local watershed and the environment.
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Maybe someone needs to look into how outher states run there plowing programs. LIke oregon there u pay 10$ ever to yours for your sled. I ride tollgate alot and they r using grooming every sunday and thursday nights up there and the money that is used for gromming come from the club from what i understand.
Now for the plowing of the snowparks, i dont really know who des that but they have always seemed to be plowed out everytime i head up . but i usly wait tell there is about 4 feet of snow b4 i head up.
As for the idea of pay booths at the trial head . Humm what club member would want to set in alittle booth makeing sure everyone has a permit, who would inforce it, ? I think we shoul have the state drop the price and sell to wssa clubs r memmbers and have deallerships r clubs sell them for a set amount so the club and the state makes money, if the r sould by a dealler ship the money would be sent to wssa and they would split the money up between need places for gromming and plowing.
WE have to understand that the snowporks wont be plowed every time we go. and the trails dont always stay nice and groomed. Have anyone ever know someone that does road plowing. it isnt a ez job u get woke up at 3 am if there is snow. u miss hoildays if the roads need plowed. u loos your days off becuse of it, theese guys have it hard engough without some ppl giving them a hard time becuse they didn't do a snowpark, The state r county road crews r not responeable for snow parks.
Here is a idea if it makes u mad that your favorite snow park isnt plowed out all the time go by a quad witha plow on it and spend your own money and time doing it.
Yes the state does get money to plow snowparks but how many of them r the all through out the state .Are tab money goes to take care of all of them not just the one that u use in your area. So ppl thank of big picture and if there is a problem help solve it not make it bigger by yell and cussing at ppl. To say is not as ez to make asnow park bigger there is alot of stuff tha has to looked into. Such as the effect of more hardscape on the local watershed and the eviroment.
I will pay you $5 if you install spell check.
G
Good to Go
Banned
^^^^^^^^LMAO... beat me to it. I had to go get two aspirins.
I gotta ask after reading ALL of these posts... Do you guys actually read the posts and info that people put up, or is it just fun to ask the same questions over the over...?
I gotta ask after reading ALL of these posts... Do you guys actually read the posts and info that people put up, or is it just fun to ask the same questions over the over...?
U
Ultralord
Well-known member
It is NOT a blue versus red issue, so please stop the slurs. Majority rules, right? Sledders are NOT a majority of the voters in any way.
Idaho is solid RED and stole their ATV funds to put in the general fund just like Washington did with putting ours into the parks budget.
It is about those in office, regardless of political affiliation having to prioritize. Sorry to say snowmobiling and ATV'ing are lower than education and law enforcement.
I wait to hear the argument for sledding and ATV'ing versus police and schools.
Besides do you want then clearing now and then run out of funds in the middle of the REAL good sledding season. I say let them skip November and have the funds for when the snow is REALLY coming down and we have a good base.
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Wait till they are in "charge" of giving health care. New union for Goobermint workers
They are never going to be in charge of giving health care, just paying of the bills. They are not taking over the doctors, hospitals or any of the providers, just replacing the corporate middlemen making HUGE profits off paying our claims.
Besides last time I checked government works like the Military, Medicare, Social Security and the Post Office. I put a letter in an envelope, place a 44 cent stamp on it and it goes cross country in about 4 days. If I want a private company, like UPS or FEDEX to do that, it costs me about $5.00. All that extra expense goes to shareholder and CEO pockets.
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Ironically everyone is missing the point that we have had SOOO much snow over the last five years that we have needed this much plowing.
There were years where funding was left over. I prefer we run out early than not have snow for sledding.
There were years where funding was left over. I prefer we run out early than not have snow for sledding.
G
Good to Go
Banned
Not to rain on the parade... but the post office is NOT self sufficient. Medicare is broke and Social Security is so screwed up, no one even wants to address it.
Government should not be in retirement funds. Period. I'd rather have a CEO and middleman (it's your neighbor probably) take the profits and spend it, invest it, whatever, than have it eaten up and pizzed away by bureaucracy.
Anyone who thinks that those that pay the bills won't have control over how it's spent has got a hard lesson coming. Government ran death care would be just that.
So, back to the regularly scheduled programming, it is a blue vs red thing. Just 'cause some red governments haven't done well doesn't mean that blue is better.. You are correct, in that funds in all types of government are handled inappropriately..isn't that a good reason to whine and try to do something about? I hand it to this group. Most are willing to pay for their activity (self taxation) but they demand to control it and have it spent wisely. The discussion continues as the present system isn't cutting it for most.
lol, I thought you hated politics.....
^^^^^^^^^^you beet me this time! LOL
I'm never going to stop the slurs until sheeple like you wake up and start holding your party accountable for their insane spending practices and enormous tax hikes during the worst recession in our life time in an attempt to cover their BS. I'm sorry if this makes you feal bad but pull your head out and smell the $11 billion debt your party has burdened us with.
You want to compare sledding funds to education and law enforcement and that's not the point. I could school you (as usual) on this crap all day, so don't go there. Unless you want to talk about freeway sound barriers, road art, Washington state liquor stores, Indian gambling tax, Indian gas tax, health care for illegles and DSHS VS education and law enforcement??
The point is we need more money in the system and better management of it. $33.75 tabs are a joke for a user fee for our sport.
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I love this argument.. CEO and middleman take the money and spend it, but when government gets money it just shrivels up into thin air and is gone.
What is with all the spelling bee champions on here? Do we all feel so special because we spend so much time on the computer that we can type really well?
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Jet,
I am curious, would it be even possible to get a bill passed that would allow a council (snowmobilers, parks and rec, and others, not sure what is already out there that governs this sort of stuff) to be in more direct control over the fee structure for the grooming and plowing for snowmobiles and winter recreation? It seems like this is the key issue.
Or I guess another question would be "Why doe it take an act of congress to allow us to charge ourselves more (that sounded stupid) for snowmobiling?" Is there a specific reason that they have to (due to some law) be involved in the money collection process?
I am curious, would it be even possible to get a bill passed that would allow a council (snowmobilers, parks and rec, and others, not sure what is already out there that governs this sort of stuff) to be in more direct control over the fee structure for the grooming and plowing for snowmobiles and winter recreation? It seems like this is the key issue.
Or I guess another question would be "Why doe it take an act of congress to allow us to charge ourselves more (that sounded stupid) for snowmobiling?" Is there a specific reason that they have to (due to some law) be involved in the money collection process?
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WOW....this thread sure has grown a life of its own...LOL!
For those that have sent me bad rep for "complaining".....I was not complaining, it was meant in humor.....I laugh at guys stuck in the snopark so thought some would see the humor in this....laughing at anothers pain seems to be a favorite passtime on snowest....I know I enjoy it!!
I know it's very early in the season.....services sometimes start early, but not this year.
So....does anyone know if they plowed that road yet?
For those that have sent me bad rep for "complaining".....I was not complaining, it was meant in humor.....I laugh at guys stuck in the snopark so thought some would see the humor in this....laughing at anothers pain seems to be a favorite passtime on snowest....I know I enjoy it!!
I know it's very early in the season.....services sometimes start early, but not this year.
So....does anyone know if they plowed that road yet?
G
Good to Go
Banned
I love this argument.. CEO and middleman take the money and spend it, but when government gets money it just shrivels up into thin air and is gone.
What is with all the spelling bee champions on here? Do we all feel so special because we spend so much time on the computer that we can type really well?
The difference is, one is a free market. The other is not... and to change a bureaucracy is clearly harder than just switching companies. So, it makes it kind of hard for free market to reign. If enough people actually hated Costco or thought it was a rip off, or whatever, and didn't shop there, they would either close or change their policies. A choice. Try doing that with your local liquor store. Doesn't matter how inefficient they might be, they can continue to do so. Yes, once your money goes into the tax system, it pretty much shrivels and is gone. What you get at the other end is 'thin air', nothing but a mockery of your earnings. Yes, I do know of what I speak...been in it, around it, giving it and receiving it.
I didn't check my spelling....again. Forgive me. But I trust you didn't have to read it three times to get the jest...