Unpopular opinion time: Having finally ridden my '21 850 factory turbo, it seems that aftermarket turbo mfgs/shops have no clue what they're doing

[Remmy]

It won't kill the aftermarket as not everybody likes riding a Doo. That said it will change the aftermarket, sending them off in a new direction, taking what Doo has done and trying to make it better or trying to emulate it on other sled brands. Currently there are a lot of us who like the direction Doo is going only don't see enough gains for the extra cost, extra weight, extra parts and extra complexity. In addition there are many who don't ride at a high enough altitude to get enough benefit to bother. If I had a choice for 6000 ft. I would prefer a few more cc's than a turbo, factory or aftermarket.

After spending some time on a 21' turbo the other day I'd say it's well worth the additional money. Even at 2000' this thing is an animal...very noticeable power increase over the 20 NA I rode. Torque curve feels a lot thicker with the Turbo...just keeps pulling all the way through...my 2 cents.

 

[madmax]

I think, and the aftermarket has shown us, brp left a lot on the table with the 850 turbo. It’ll be like the X3 when it came out, low boost to start until the other manufacturers get close and then it’s easy to pump out 190hp when the need to

 

[TreeThrasher]

Ya it’s just a totally different deal. Cooke city today and you just ride up to the pump, fill it up and the sled kills it all day. Flat out performance and never open a panel, look at the clutch or anything. And it hits hard off the bottom, you can double through the big chop on the road at will.

 

[Teth-Air]

I think, and the aftermarket has shown us, brp left a lot on the table with the 850 turbo. It’ll be like the X3 when it came out, low boost to start until the other manufacturers get close and then it’s easy to pump out 190hp when the need to

Yes when it really out-performs the N/A at low elevation there will be no reason not to want the power. For now it is a warranty issue for too many guys to mess with it. I sure would not want to feel I couldn't put a can on either or warranty is void.

 

[Teth-Air]

After spending some time on a 21' turbo the other day I'd say it's well worth the additional money. Even at 2000' this thing is an animal...very noticeable power increase over the 20 NA I rode. Torque curve feels a lot thicker with the Turbo...just keeps pulling all the way through...my 2 cents.

I heard they changed the clutching for 21 so maybe that helped? I liked the clutching feel of the 2020.5 turbo G4 but it was dead last in a lake race at about 6000ft, last season, compared to a 2019 G4 and a couple other N/A sleds. Even my 174 Polaris beat it but the race length was only about equivalent to a city block in 4-5 inches of fresh.

 

[davesilb]

A supercharged pulls more HP from then engine than a turbo. Build two very similar setup at the same boost, and you will see more peak HP with a turbo. With a CVT, you don't care as much for the power curve as you do with a geared transmission on which you need to pull between the gaps.

I totally disagree. Any supercharged engine putting out the same boost pressure as a trubo engine will always make more hp unless someone does not know how to build the supercharged engine !! For the trubo engine to come close it would have to be twin trubo"d and have a large air intercooler.

 

[NoSoup4U]

Even my 174 Polaris beat it but the race length was only about equivalent to a city block in 4-5 inches of fresh.

You had a pretty good story going until you threw the 174 Polaris in there. I’ve got a 174 Polaris with a pipe and a few other mods that definitely runs better than stock, and my buddies 20.5 850 turbo flat out runs away from it across the flat or up the hill. Not even close.

 

[Devilmanak]

It won't kill the aftermarket as not everybody likes riding a Doo. That said it will change the aftermarket, sending them off in a new direction, taking what Doo has done and trying to make it better or trying to emulate it on other sled brands. Currently there are a lot of us who like the direction Doo is going only don't see enough gains for the extra cost, extra weight, extra parts and extra complexity. In addition there are many who don't ride at a high enough altitude to get enough benefit to bother. If I had a choice for 6000 ft. I would prefer a few more cc's than a turbo, factory or aftermarket.

That makes sense. Higher you go, bigger benefits from the Doo turbo. But Poo will have one this year (I would bet, mid season release) and Cat can't be far behind. I personally won't ever buy one, I don' t ride chutes and big pulls, so like you said, I am not paying $20K for a snowmobile. But lots of guys did this year.

 

[Teth-Air]

You had a pretty good story going until you threw the 174 Polaris in there. I’ve got a 174 Polaris with a pipe and a few other mods that definitely runs better than stock, and my buddies 20.5 850 turbo flat out runs away from it across the flat or up the hill. Not even close.

Is yours an 850 174? Mine is and maybe if the lake was longer the turbo would have caught up. Even the N/A G4 was faster than the turbo. This was also a 2020.5 and I expect the 2021's will be better??

 

[Remmy]

Is yours an 850 174? Mine is and maybe if the lake was longer the turbo would have caught up. Even the N/A G4 was faster than the turbo. This was also a 2020.5 and I expect the 2021's will be better??

Your experience does not appear to be the norm. There are numerous videos of guys dragging the 20.5 up mountains against NA 850s and the Turbo walks away. Even at/near sea level the sled is building 5-7 more HP than the NA 850 on the same Dyno. That advantage only grows with elevation.

I've owned and been around quite a few turbocharged setups and I've never experienced one that is this snappy off the line.

I don't know if I'm more impressed by how responsive it is off/on throttle or the linear power band that just doesn't seem to stop. This 21' Freeride (165) is Rowdy...like it'll get away from you pretty quick if you aren't on your game.

 

[Teth-Air]

Your experience does not appear to be the norm. There are numerous videos of guys dragging the 20.5 up mountains against NA 850s and the Turbo walks away. Even at/near sea level the sled is building 5-7 more HP than the NA 850 on the same Dyno. That advantage only grows with elevation.

I've owned and been around quite a few turbocharged setups and I've never experienced one that is this snappy off the line.

I don't know if I'm more impressed by how responsive it is off/on throttle or the linear power band that just doesn't seem to stop. This 21' Freeride (165) is Rowdy...like it'll get away from you pretty quick if you aren't on your game.

The linear power is what I like about it. Much more controlled than the N/A G4.

 

[Answ3r]

I totally disagree. Any supercharged engine putting out the same boost pressure as a trubo engine will always make more hp unless someone does not know how to build the supercharged engine !! For the trubo engine to come close it would have to be twin trubo"d and have a large air intercooler.

I guess that's why there is SO many supercharged engines on the market in all industries and so little turbo engines, right ? All the OEM have it wrong ? /sarcasm

A turbo takes it's energy in the heat from the exhaust that is normally all wasted. It converts thermal energy into mechanical energy (power). A supercharger takes mechanical energy to increase mechanical energy and does that by reducing pumping losses. Basic physics. Proove me wrong with facts, not opinion if you will

 

[Inthe8s]

I heard they changed the clutching for 21 so maybe that helped? I liked the clutching feel of the 2020.5 turbo G4 but it was dead last in a lake race at about 6000ft, last season, compared to a 2019 G4 and a couple other N/A sleds. Even my 174 Polaris beat it but the race length was only about equivalent to a city block in 4-5 inches of fresh.

2020.5 clutching was ok...not great but LOTS left on the table... 2021 now has 3 different weights... and all I can say is contact ibackshift.com
and get Joey's kit, it is a game changer as they say

 

[enpatte]

I guess that's why there is SO many supercharged engines on the market in all industries and so little turbo engines, right ? All the OEM have it wrong ? /sarcasm

A turbo takes it's energy in the heat from the exhaust that is normally all wasted. It converts thermal energy into mechanical energy (power). A supercharger takes mechanical energy to increase mechanical energy and does that by reducing pumping losses. Basic physics. Proove me wrong with facts, not opinion if you will

You sir are correct.

 

[Winshady]

Answ3r, I think you’re wrong on that one. The turbo does not transform exhaust heat into boost magically. It’s the actual exhaust flow that spins the turbine not the “heat”. As a matter of fact, heat is the enemy of a turbo. My turbine inlet temp max is 1650 degrees so we try to keep temps low. This is coming from the airplane world, but I’m pretty sure turbos work the same wherever. Where’s my Bonanza guys out there??

 

[DRIVEBYE]

I have never felt the aftermarket snowmobile turbo world had much innovation or progression at all. Why that is I can think of a few possible reasons. My best guess is they didn't need to and focused on making money. I don't believe they can come close to competing with a company like BRP if they decide to do this but it should be a closer gap. I could be completely wrong just my view.

 

[BirdmanID]

Answ3r, I think you’re wrong on that one. The turbo does not transform exhaust heat into boost magically. It’s the actual exhaust flow that spins the turbine not the “heat”. As a matter of fact, heat is the enemy of a turbo. My turbine inlet temp max is 1650 degrees so we try to keep temps low. This is coming from the airplane world, but I’m pretty sure turbos work the same wherever. Where’s my Bonanza guys out there??

Without the heat energy, a turbo would never work as well as they do. It is a balance between airflow and heat. Answ3r is very close in his description. The thermal expansion of air exiting the cylinder equals velocity which equals spool.

 

[IcutMetl]

I guess that's why there is SO many supercharged engines on the market in all industries and so little turbo engines, right ? All the OEM have it wrong ? /sarcasm

A turbo takes it's energy in the heat from the exhaust that is normally all wasted. It converts thermal energy into mechanical energy (power). A supercharger takes mechanical energy to increase mechanical energy and does that by reducing pumping losses. Basic physics. Proove me wrong with facts, not opinion if you will

Argument ended, right there ?

 

[jcjc1]

The physics of turbochargers (for dummies) — Auto Expert John Cadogan

Turbochargers return to the engine energy that you would otherwise waste in the exhaust - literally pumping up the efficiency. What's not to like?

autoexpert.com.au

Looks like flow is the important component.

 

[Answ3r]

Answ3r, I think you’re wrong on that one. The turbo does not transform exhaust heat into boost magically. It’s the actual exhaust flow that spins the turbine not the “heat”. As a matter of fact, heat is the enemy of a turbo. My turbine inlet temp max is 1650 degrees so we try to keep temps low. This is coming from the airplane world, but I’m pretty sure turbos work the same wherever. Where’s my Bonanza guys out there??

From a mechanic's point of view, that seems right. But from a physics point of view, not really. You cannot "create" energy, you can only convert it. Like the fuel you are burning, it's potential chemical energy that when you burn, it's converted into heat and converted into mechanical energy. You convert roughly 30% of the potentiel chemical energy to mechanical energy (hp) the rest is wasted in heat. The turbocharger regains some of that waste.