Sarcasm or for real, I am not a "clutch guru" by any stretch, been searching last two days to get info on the new helix. My sled is in the shop right now and I want to make sure I am putting the money in the right place. Any constructive help would be great
TRA settups...attn clutch guru's
- Thread starter winter brew
- Start date
Sarcasm or for real, I am not a "clutch guru" by any stretch, been searching last two days to get info on the new helix. My sled is in the shop right now and I want to make sure I am putting the money in the right place. Any constructive help would be great
I'm with Turboal in that this thread really brings tears to ones eye. I am sad for the guys on the thread here, but the fellas at BRP must be pissin' themselves laughing at the situation, just watching their customers chasing their tails and so many experts too!
I notice that most of the "solutions" are to put in a heavier spring to keep the clutch sleaves apart and then add lots of weight, oh and some other ramp for good luck.
Basicly what the BRP boys must think is so funny is watching their innocent customers trying to make the TRA spring drive, rubber nosed Bouncing Betty on a vibrator, into a mass bias clutch system like Polaris, Cat, Yamaha, Polar, Comet, SuperTool, etc.
It ain't working, ha haha ha hah ah haa cough - aw well. It's still funny.
Al is laughing because the fix is simple. You are laughing because you think the fix is impossible. Of course, YOU like being towed home with blown up experimental primary clutches....most of us don't. How many Polars self-destructed for you last year....4 or 5? I don't know about you, but I'd rather deal with the "Bouncin Betty" than walk home.
D
deep_doo
Active member
so what should you do to fix the spring tower cap on the 07?
I busted so much stuff on that Polar primary clutch I've lost track, but I never had to walk and I was on the tow once for the last 24km to the truck.
Sure I'm laughing because the TRA is a waste of money, time and fuel. It has no potential and no place to go.
Unless of course you are just a back east flat land 600 trail rider that is, or maybe you just don't know what these stock Rotax engines will doo when they run hooked up all day. Then you don't really require the best. Heehee!!
Funny you mentioned the Polar though Dave, because Steven over at Polar Motorsports was doing some poking around on that carnage I keep sending him, and he has some more changes to do with the arms. So Polar Motorsports is sending another brand new Polar to put some mountain hours on. I've already got a new one to on the sled ready to go, but no, Steven wants me to bash the hell out of this other completely new one.
Now can anyone of you think what it would be like if BRP had the same kind of commitment to their product?
Heehee! Go buy some springs Dave... Hahaha!
'09 Cap. The TRA can work very good when settup correctly, but it takes the primary and secondary working together to make any settup work.
D
deep_doo
Active member
might be a dumb ? but are you talking about the plastic thing the spring sits in or the part you press down on the spring? also was wondering how this fixes the problem. i have always had good luck with the tra untill 07. i put a team clutch on this week just need snow to try it out.
The cap holds the spring down, has a bushing that wears quickly. They say the '09 is "improved". Maybe Al knows the details....did they change the tolerance? Material? Both?
You'll like the Team, I like mine on the '07 rather than fighting the small, quick wearing bushing they used in the '07 secondary.
You'll like the Team, I like mine on the '07 rather than fighting the small, quick wearing bushing they used in the '07 secondary.
D
deep_doo
Active member
ok that makes sence now thanks. and i think the team along with the slp kit i did should work awsome.
I run a DJ kit in my 800 mod with 230/430 spring and 24g with 296 stamped ramps from my 440 TRA and it rips in the pow. The only draw back is with the high primary spring is that my back shifting is a little less prevalant.
I love to wheelie from 0 to 50 with my chest in the bars
I love to wheelie from 0 to 50 with my chest in the bars
the supplier of the spring tower cap changed from 07 on.
the bushing material is a composite and is crushed to a certian press tollerance.
the 07 and 08 caps take on a crush shortly after useing them , 1 to 3 tanks will do it .
they look perfect, but the clearance between the steel stem it slides on and the bushing face , is now very loose.
if you remove the spring and reinstall the cap and bolt it togeter .
slide it back on the stem and now try rocking the moveable sheave half .
you will notice that the motion is enough to make the belt to sheave surface to now not have full contact.
this allows the belt to slip
it also allows the moveable sheave to cross bind in its in and out motion.
this causes a lot of parasitic drag.requires higher clicker numbers and other approaches to try and clutch past a defect.
more heat is genorated than normal. does need some but not this way.
secondery is stalling .
reason being the track choice makes the load meter read a lot higher than previous tracks.
this is due to the very stiff lugs. they dont bend over much when the track goes over 30mph
compared to a lug that is closer together and shorter and softer as were the pre 07 tracks .
due to this the side load needs to be more than the stock spring delivers .
doo has not changed this spring for 7 years now but the tracks have changed dramatically.
angle can be employed but reducing angle to add squeeze is practical to a point but.
then you have to go into the primary and rebalance there in more pin weight and more spring pressure .
that i call a dog chasing it's tail.
ther is a certian weight requirment and spring combo that is adaquate to drive the primary.doesnt fluciate a great deal.from the 146 to the 163 .
the balance to it isnt to tought to figure now , especially since we have finally got a selection of sec springs to work with the added load we see coming from these newer style tracks .
same goes there , the helix selection is a lot easier now with the added spring selection .
team uses a good range of springs . was what we used to sort the needs out on the qrs secondery .
verified that way we knew what we needed to do with the stock doo set up .
the bushing material is a composite and is crushed to a certian press tollerance.
the 07 and 08 caps take on a crush shortly after useing them , 1 to 3 tanks will do it .
they look perfect, but the clearance between the steel stem it slides on and the bushing face , is now very loose.
if you remove the spring and reinstall the cap and bolt it togeter .
slide it back on the stem and now try rocking the moveable sheave half .
you will notice that the motion is enough to make the belt to sheave surface to now not have full contact.
this allows the belt to slip
it also allows the moveable sheave to cross bind in its in and out motion.
this causes a lot of parasitic drag.requires higher clicker numbers and other approaches to try and clutch past a defect.
more heat is genorated than normal. does need some but not this way.
secondery is stalling .
reason being the track choice makes the load meter read a lot higher than previous tracks.
this is due to the very stiff lugs. they dont bend over much when the track goes over 30mph
compared to a lug that is closer together and shorter and softer as were the pre 07 tracks .
due to this the side load needs to be more than the stock spring delivers .
doo has not changed this spring for 7 years now but the tracks have changed dramatically.
angle can be employed but reducing angle to add squeeze is practical to a point but.
then you have to go into the primary and rebalance there in more pin weight and more spring pressure .
that i call a dog chasing it's tail.
ther is a certian weight requirment and spring combo that is adaquate to drive the primary.doesnt fluciate a great deal.from the 146 to the 163 .
the balance to it isnt to tought to figure now , especially since we have finally got a selection of sec springs to work with the added load we see coming from these newer style tracks .
same goes there , the helix selection is a lot easier now with the added spring selection .
team uses a good range of springs . was what we used to sort the needs out on the qrs secondery .
verified that way we knew what we needed to do with the stock doo set up .
H
HPJUNKIE
Active member
Can't you just change out the bushing in the spring cap? BRP lists the same pt# now for '06-'09 bushing.
P
pyxle
Well-known member
Spring Cap
The same p/n is listed for those years but starting with the 2009 model the bushing is "pre-sized" to reduce sticktion. Bushing is said to have the correct "fit" when new rather than the correct "fit" after break-in. If you try and change the bushing in the spring cap it will fall out and cause more damage.
The same p/n is listed for those years but starting with the 2009 model the bushing is "pre-sized" to reduce sticktion. Bushing is said to have the correct "fit" when new rather than the correct "fit" after break-in. If you try and change the bushing in the spring cap it will fall out and cause more damage.
When I order Black Lime, it is Bacardi Black and lime, yummy in the tummy.
Last time I had the sled in for warranty check up I let them put in the multi-angle that BRP was paying for. But I should not have done that, for my application the straight angle was better. The TRA needs a flatter angle to keep shifting, but that is abnormal for every other clutch on the market. Most multi-angle helix's get steeper, not shallower. It's a TRA thing.
I'm still trying to convince them to trade me back to stock.
on a trip through the factory were the sleds are assembled , i was left with the impression that a mistake in the assembley process was nearly impossable .
to get past that check point with it out of align is hard to see happen .
pdi at the dealer ship does have this as a check on the assembly list but on this chassi i cant see it .hay but crazier things can and do happen, not a perfect world , have read on here about some issue so who can say it doesnt . i havent found one yet but i sure wouldnt say it isnt so , even after seeing what i have seen i have also seen how fork lift drivers can oporate LOL's
to get past that check point with it out of align is hard to see happen .
pdi at the dealer ship does have this as a check on the assembly list but on this chassi i cant see it .hay but crazier things can and do happen, not a perfect world , have read on here about some issue so who can say it doesnt . i havent found one yet but i sure wouldnt say it isnt so , even after seeing what i have seen i have also seen how fork lift drivers can oporate LOL's
Similar threads
