TRA settups...attn clutch guru's

[Original Tetonice]

Guy's for starter the 433 weigh's 1 gram more than the 414 which when you multiply that times 3 ramps will add 3 grams of weight to the XP, LOL.

I prefer the 414 because it's slightly steeper in the critical part of the shift pattern as can be seen in the photo as apposed to the slightly flatter 433 in the same critical shifting area. Yes coming out of the hole is important, however not as critical or important as maintaining full shift and rpm under deep snow hill climbing and deep snow boondocking conditions. For deep snow riding the TRA prefers a slightly steeper finish so the arms continues to have to push and work aggresively as it has to quickly adjust to the ever changing loads of deep snow just to acheive full shift and hold rpm. The flatter 433 doesn't provide imo enough push for the arm, unless you click to clicker 4 which forces the arm to push more aggresivly on the ramp which will put more side pressure on the sheave/belt in order to maintain peak rpm..

 

[MT_mtn_climber]

Definately some good info in here. From my playing around the 433 ramp takes a ton of weight to perform. I threw them in with 14.7 grams and they would hit the limiter at 40 mph, that was enough and I never threw 19-21 grams like some of you are saying.... Also, you fellas that didn't like your DJ kits, wasn't it on the old doo rollers, not new secondary on the XP. DJ's helix should be here today and I plan on throwing it on tonight. If that doesn't work I'm going to try the Doo 44/33 helix and go back to the stock primary spring. The over-size rollers seem to be another avenue to visit. I also tried the 412's on my 163 but I think my gearing it down didn't load the clutch enough and I saw high temps and belt marks.
The best setup closest to stock that I've seen is gearing down to 20/49 and loading the pins full of weight, problem was I was only in clicker 1 at 5k. Clutches were fairly cool but there was still a fade on a long pull because the stock secondary helix wasn't creating enough backshift....track speed would fade from upper 40's to upper 30's.

 

[MT_mtn_climber]

I am running a 130-320 with 1.7 gram screws in each arm and stock ramps. I have changed the secondary spring to the green spring. The sled runs awesome in clicker 3 @ 9k feet.

What track speeds are you seeing on a climb?

 

[ghost rider]

clutching

Guy's for starter the 433 weigh's 1 gram more than the 414 which when you multiply that times 3 ramps will add 3 grams of weight to the XP, LOL.

I prefer the 414 because it's slightly steeper in the critical part of the shift pattern as can be seen in the photo as apposed to the slightly flatter 433 in the same critical shifting area. Yes coming out of the hole is important, however not as critical or important as maintaining full shift and rpm under deep snow hill climbing and deep snow boondocking conditions. For deep snow riding the TRA prefers a slightly steeper finish so the arms continues to have to push and work aggresively as it has to quickly adjust to the ever changing loads of deep snow just to acheive full shift and hold rpm. The flatter 433 doesn't provide imo enough push for the arm, unless you click to clicker 4 which forces the arm to push more aggresivly on the ramp which will put more side pressure on the sheave/belt in order to maintain peak rpm..

I've posted my set up with the 433's many times on the forum. If you don't throw at least 17.5 to 19.5 grams of weight the set up will not work. I run 19.5 grams on clicker 2 at 9,000 ft and clicker 3 at 11,500 ft. I have a book full of clutch set ups from last year to this year and we have 4 identical sleds we try different set ups on and this set up by far is the best track speed set up and rpm set up we have tried hands down.
I'm stupid enough to say this is the only set up that works but this one works the best for us at 7,000 to 11,500ft. Don't waste your time with this setup unless you do the whole thing!!! 78 mph on flats and 44-45 on a dead pull up steep and deep.

 

[grizking]

Anybody tried the 433 ramp set up in a xp 154 at 7000 to 9000 feet

 

[grizking]

Ghost Rider what kind of pin wieght are you using for the XP 154

 

[Skidooer]

Ghost Rider what kind of pin wieght are you using for the XP 154

I have 19.7. It works very good.

 

[baD-MAX]

Guy's for starter the 433 weigh's 1 gram more than the 414 which when you multiply that times 3 ramps will add 3 grams of weight to the XP, LOL.

I prefer the 414 because it's slightly steeper in the critical part of the shift pattern as can be seen in the photo as apposed to the slightly flatter 433 in the same critical shifting area. Yes coming out of the hole is important, however not as critical or important as maintaining full shift and rpm under deep snow hill climbing and deep snow boondocking conditions. For deep snow riding the TRA prefers a slightly steeper finish so the arms continues to have to push and work aggresively as it has to quickly adjust to the ever changing loads of deep snow just to acheive full shift and hold rpm. The flatter 433 doesn't provide imo enough push for the arm, unless you click to clicker 4 which forces the arm to push more aggresivly on the ramp which will put more side pressure on the sheave/belt in order to maintain peak rpm..

O.T., If you line up the ramps with a pin through the holes you will see the 433's provide a much steeper ramp finish. Way more push for the arm at any clicker setting. I do agree the steep start angle and the mid-range slopes seem better.

Question for you--At 45mph where is the arm/roller located on the ramp? How far up the shift is the roller? Is this location a constant at 45mph? Or does it change in different conditions? This is assuming a constant peak rpm.

I'm trying to figure out clutch shift in respect to gearing and what would be the best part of the ramp to be in while climbing and then adjust gearing for track speed from there.

...MAX

 

[blksumit]

Some good points there. On my bigbore cat the clutching was ten times better with tip-light weights, great backshift. But I remember back on the mod zx's we would put ti arms in them and run a lot of pin weight and that was the killer setup. The guys who seem to be happy also seem to be running quite a bit of pin weight. What do these 433 ramps look like?

Edit: Forgot to say that after about 500km my arms were pretty sticky and one of the rollers is toast.

I ran ti and mag arms on the TRAII clutches and also had good luck with them. Ti arms were also fairly consistent from day to day. HOWEVER, belt heat was usually very high. When you are picking your way through the trees, boondocking and just general riding, the rpm's are in the low to mid range(lower 2/3's of the arm).Pin weight affects mostly high rpm. The lack of weight low on the arm and lower total weight(typically 48-55gr's) is what contributed to high belt heat IMO. I believe we got by with it because those motors were not producing the hp today's motors are.

Dave

 

[Perry B]

433 setup

Tried the 433 ramps with blue-blue 130-290 spring and 19.6 grams total weight(pin+screws), clicker 2, and stock secondary. Not a real good test today at Yakima , it was hard, go anywhere snow. RPM, 8100, track speed,50+, the hillclimbs were concrete, no track slip, you could idle up the super bowl. Very satisfied with setup so far. Stock pins in my primary were only 10.5 grams, not the 12.5 I thought they were. Adding 4g to stock pin only brought me up to 14.5g with stock ramps and blue-blue. I incorrectly assumed I was at 16.5. The medium pin kit I purchased tops out at 19.6 which you cannot reach starting out with stock pin. Anxious to try this new (to me) combo in good powder.

 

[rockymking]

I agree....

There sure is a lot of people who praise this DJ clutch kit? I just dont see what everyone like so much about the kit? I was not impressed with the kit I purchased. It just seem like there are alot of sheep here... If one person does it the next does it. The setup I had worked ok on hardpack but suffered in deep snow or even elevation. I agree on the steepness of the helix. Joe and I talked about his setup but never got it resolved. Hopefully he does have an improvement from when the time I had his kit. I just dont like hearing people talking about motors drafting rpm and blaming it on the motors. Clutching is where it is at.

I'm not impressed with my DJ kit either....I think the sled ran better with the last set-up I used; stock primary spring, 16.1 grams per pin and a straight 44 helix. Didn't pull quite as hard as using the DJ kit, but was smoother and held rpm's just fine. My DJ kit is going on the auction block.

 

[westforkman]

clutching xp 163 800r

gearing 19-49,433 ramps,21.2grams of pin weight,160-320spring, runs very strong. all in all very happy with sled,only trouble is the rollers,went out one ride about 80 miles and two bad rollers after putting in the same day. does any body have any ideas to solve the problem. elevation 6500-9500ft.clicker 1 or 2 most of the time. 8200-8400rpm. 900 miles on sled . never have blown a belt, started with 166 belt, now with 377 belt.

 

[winter brew]

gearing 19-49,433 ramps,21.2grams of pin weight,160-320spring, runs very strong. all in all very happy with sled,only trouble is the rollers,went out one ride about 80 miles and two bad rollers after putting in the same day. does any body have any ideas to solve the problem. elevation 6500-9500ft.clicker 1 or 2 most of the time. 8200-8400rpm.

Aftermarket rollers, cheaper and more durable.

 

[ReTodd]

Winterbrew,

I am runing the same setup in both tra7 and tra3. I run 410/185 primary spring with full pin. It has a ton of grunt and holds rpm's well. On the tra7, the Clutch still gets hot in heavy snow and like you said, even with the updated stuff they tend to lose it after a few hundred miles. I have been running my tra3 with that same spring combo I have found that after long pulls in heavy snow that my clutch is barely even warm. Pulls like a freight train on the bottom end and holds 8350 up anything. You can let off and get back on it and it upshifts super fast. Can't ask for much more than that.

Rt

 

[BIG JOHN]

ti arms

I ran ti and mag arms on the TRAII clutches and also had good luck with them. Ti arms were also fairly consistent from day to day. HOWEVER, belt heat was usually very high. When you are picking your way through the trees, boondocking and just general riding, the rpm's are in the low to mid range(lower 2/3's of the arm).Pin weight affects mostly high rpm. The lack of weight low on the arm and lower total weight(typically 48-55gr's) is what contributed to high belt heat IMO. I believe we got by with it because those motors were not producing the hp today's motors are.

Dave

Most of the belt issues with ti arms is the spring guys used was to strong...a 130/200 was my std ZX summit spring with 19-21 grams of weight...any more spring and belt temps went up...BJ

 

[FIII_Mtn]

Most of the belt issues with ti arms is the spring guys used was to strong...a 130/200 was my std ZX summit spring with 19-21 grams of weight...any more spring and belt temps went up...BJ

I really like this setup, and want to thank you again for sharing so many times over the years.

 

[drop the hammer]

DJ's kit feedback & my sleds performance

2007 800R with 159 powdermax and Dynoport can, DJ's kit.
Earlier this year I ran, 16.5g's (Dalton Pro Stainless Adjustable pins) w 160/350 doo spring, consistent rpms and performance. then the crank bearings let go.
Doo replaced with the new style engine with more bearing clearance and they told me slightly different pistons?? Anyways, went riding and more power was evident as she would overrev hard. Clickered down significantly for that day.
Added weight to 18 g's and recleaned inside clutch (wasn't dirty, just preventative maintenance), set clicker 4, at 6500-7500 feet
Now it is very dialed and consistently at 8400rpm on tach and amazing track speed....minimal clutch heat, no belt issues. Great backshifting and tach needle does not move. NOt sure of track speed though, i can't see those little numbers while hanging on for dear life.
On trail at lower elevation it overrev's....not a concern for me though since the mtn performance is all that matters to me.....i could clicker down, but that would require me to break out the tools.

 

[Teth-Air]

I have no issues with eating belts, performance, track speed etc...But there is still one thing about the TRA that I would like to improve upon and want input from anyone that has found a cure (or a way to minimize) the RPM variation in different snow conditions and terrain. I have a 800R 159 that runs VERY good, but they are a peaky engine....run under 8100 and you missing out, over 8400 and you are too high. I find with just about any settup that I have to run 2 clicker setings lower on the flats (or firmer snow) than I do when climbing or in the deep. I am VERY picky on my clutching and always want peak performance so I find myself playing with clickers 2-3 times/ride as I go from road to the play areas.
Has anyone found a good mountain settup that shows consistant RPM in a variety of conditions?
And yes, my TRA`7 is in good shape...it's not the clutch itself, just the classis TRA behavior.....is there a cure besides a P-85 or quick clickers??

Winterbrew,

I have had my primary off more times than my underware and I am still trying to hack this thing out. Currently I am over the hot clutch thing and belt blowing due to new belt and moving the motor toward the mag side. Everthing is good except I can set this thing up for accelleration and the trails or for climbing but not for both. Now in clicker 1 my arms get stretched but will only do 7900rpms on the climbs. In clicker 3 it will maintain 8150 to 8250 on the climbs but acceration seems to slip and I get that buzzy feel at low speeds. I was sure that the only answer was a new ramp angle that was the same as the 413's at the bottom but steeper at the top. I have been looking at 410's in the 2007 BRP race book but have yet to make up my mind. I have a friend that has given me a bag of BRP springs to try. My thought is maybe a soft bottom spring with a hard top would be the answer. I wanted to try a yellow/purple which is 100/320 but I accidentally put in a purple/yellow which is 160/230.(don't have the yellow/purple) I was very surprized to see my engagement go up to 4200 rpm until I realized the mistake. The other surprize was that I found the shift point was more influenced by the spring finishing number more than the starting number. (41mm compression rather than 74mm compression) With this purple/yellow spring and the drop of primary weight I now only click up or down 1 number during a day of riding. I am going to try a Blue/Yellow spring this weekend (130/230) which starts softer and ends the same. I expect that this should lower the engagement and shift point while maintaining the high rpms desired? I will let you know next week.

 

[canucklehead]

433 testing

Just wanted to say thanks to the guys who posted some 433 ramp setups. I picked up a set and ran them for two days but don't think I will continue to use them. Performance is good but temps were up and I actually blew my first belt(166), had 700km on it until now.

08xp 163
433's
blue/green
20.4 grams
dj helix
20/49 gears

I will go back to the purple/pink and 15.5ish grams and stock ramps next ride and compare.

 

[Throttle Junkie]

I am running stock ramps, solid pins (anyone know the weight on them?) I just ordered a 130/290 primary. Have been running in Clicker 2 and 3 sometimes. If I like the primary setup with the new spring I will then go to a progressive helix. 42 stock correct? So I would go to somewhere around a 45/40.

I am totally new to ski-doos/ Been on a poo for 12 years. What ramps are in these stocK? anyone have a list of all the ramps and profiles? Also, what do you need to get the secondary off on the XP's....Bunch of newbie questions