Too all those retarded mt. Riders

[mwv]

I just need too rant, cause this is really starting to piss me off.

Was'nt last year with all those avi deaths a wake up call to you. How many more losses are we going to have before you get it and learn proper riding ethics, I see some flatlanders that know better than you. When you bought your machine did they give you a case of stupid pills too, and how many off them are you taking.

I think in most areas 70% of the people out there really don't have a clue about what you need to know about riding right in the mts.

Here is a good on I saw last weekend in one of my local zones, I wish I took pics of this group. Than you will say hey that's me and boy was that stupid what we did.
So this spot is a pretty big slope sub alpine it has a troff on it that goes on a angle pretty much one of the only ways up and out too the back side of the mt on this side. While me me and my buddy are on on of the lakes watching this group of about 10 coming down all together, two of them decide to high mark above the whole group that's coming down. STUPID STUPID STUPID.....
With the snow fractures and sluffs that we were seeing all day this group was lucky that this slope did'nt let go.

-Next, this is still the same group and close to the same area. I watch 4 of them charge up the same slope all at the same time, two of them nearly hit each other and this was on the slope we seen large fractures on. HHHMMM I wonder what would happen if that slope broke and all four of your were buried, the rest of your group would'nt even had a clue if it happened cause they were not to be seen. Me and my group would have had to rescue your retarded butts.

-Another one, This happened a few weeks ago. My crew and I were at one of our climbing bowls, we try to only put one person on the slope at a time while the rest watch at the safe zone. One of my friends get stuck, so we send one up to give him a hand and stops below him and walk the rest (being safe) while the rest off us will watch till the are down if anything should happen.
This new group comes into the area and two of them deside to show us there egos (more like stupidness) and start highmarking. One of them zips past my two friends that are on the slope highmarks right above them and nearly lost control.
Did you even think about of the safety of those two guys below you, what about if you lost total control and your sled hit them or if the slope gave away cause of you highmarking above them. Luck to them this person and his tiny group left right away. I was ready to ride over to they were and rip his key out and toss it in the snow, I was pissed cause you took that safety from my friends.

When are you people going to learn. Minimize that risk one at a time, safe zones ( don't sit in the avi runout zone), read the avi reports they are there for a reason, get gear beacon, probe, shovel and know how to use it and put it in your back pack, and get AVI TRAINING!!!!! they teach you you to use that gear properly and read those reports, etc, etc.

If you still want to ride like a retard, go do it some where else and quit putting other groups at risk.

Maybe there is a how to ride in the mts. bible for you that you should read.....

I think I am going to start taking pictures and posting them now, so these people will learn from their mistakes.

 

[brahm]

I'd be happy if people could figure out how to load there trailers, or bet yet drive with sleds on the back of there trailers.. Lets save the mountain classes for the advanced riders. The other week I saw some people speeding around a corner loose two sleds when the king pin in there tilt was tossed out (no safety chain).. sleds flew off.. and here is the kicker.. THEY WERE RIDING THE SLEDS ON THE TRAILER. Girl flys off the busted trailer with the sled gets pitched into the middle of the highway and breaks some bones.. lucky she was a wearing a helmet.

 

[snowmobiler]

i would guess that a majority of the tard riders out there dont look at online forums and have no clue about riding safely.

 

[UtahEdge]

i would guess that a majority of the tard riders out there dont look at online forums and have no clue about riding safely.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[POWDR]

My friend and I discuss this stuff all the time. Being avy savvy doesn't mean simply having a beacon. I have been backcountry skiing for years and you would be surprised at how many folks don't even carry a beacon. Or better yet, have a beacon, but no shovel or probe. The worst part is that if they are missing those items you know they have no training.

Too many times people go into the backcountry without proper training. Not just avy, but even without simple first aid/CPR. I have assisted in backcountry emergencies enough to know that people wander where they shouldn't. I have been involved in serious evacs and stabilizations until the proper help could arrive.

Me and my buddies always have the plan ahead of time about who takes the lead in an emergency and who is back up if the lead goes down. We talk about order of travel in avy terrain, safety zones, escape routes to those safety zones. Even with all the proper precautions anything can happen in the backcountry. We were skiing safely one day and another group ski cut right above me as I was dropping in and buried me up to my shoulders. They laughed and took off. Backcountry ethics are safety above all else and fun next.

It is the responsibility of those with knowledge to educate others so those without training do not endanger themselves as well as others. Yeah it sucks to see people ride irresponsibly, but it is an excellent opportunity to educate and hopefully save an accident from happening.

Skiing is much easier to constantly evaluate the snowpack as the group moves slower. On a sled, I feel people think they can just pin it and get out of trouble and therefore do not evaluate snowpack. A lot of people do not realize avy conditions change throughout the day. Some people just check the avy report and call it good. I rarely see people dig a pit or even simply put their fist through the snow to evaluate layers. I could go on for a while about all this.

Bottom line is that hopefully people gain some knowledge from threads like this that are obviously aimed at helping and not just an empty rant. Thanks for starting this and maybe it will inspire someone to seek out more avy info and pass that knowledge onto their riding group.

I do not know if there is a thread to offer tips about travel in avy terrain, but if not then perhaps there could be one added and people could add tips like how to fine search, how to probe efficiently, watch out conditions, avy prone terrain features, etc. Could be good to allow people to see how much can be involved in becoming avy savvy and seek out formal training in the form of a class.

My .02 Be

Safe and Have Fun

 

[christian]

call me when you can predict at a 100%

truth is that majority of avi "AVY" deaths consum people who have plenty of training, its a risk factor we take... if there was no risk I wouldnt be a snowmobiler?


But yes there are some stupid people out there including me at times.... mountains are nothing when compared to the fouls we share the highways with

 

[POWDR]

call me when you can predict at a 100%

truth is that majority of avi "AVY" deaths consum people who have plenty of training, its a risk factor we take... if there was no risk I wouldnt be a snowmobiler?


But yes there are some stupid people out there including me at times.... mountains are nothing when compared to the fouls we share the highways with

Of course no one is going to be 100%. The point is to gain percentages in your favor.

Yup we take chances and we endanger ourselves by doing so, but I believe the original post was directed at those endangering others.

If someone endangers me, you can be sure I will educate them, one way or another, on how to be safer.

I bet those avy educated folks that were consumed of which you speak of did not directly endanger others.


Keep it safe and have fun

 

[08 D7]

Avy is just another risk us sledders take, and i take that risk all the time but i will never climb a hill untill it is clear of everyone else...if i get myself in an avy then so be it, but i dont want to get anyone else in it or get in one because of another person.

 

[tudizzle]

The more educated you are on avalanches the more likely you are to die in one.........fact.

 

[RMKcowboy]

The more educated you are on avalanches the more likely you are to die in one.........fact.

Probably due to the fact that most people that spend a lot of time reading about avys and training themselves are more willing to take the risks I'd guess?

 

[sled_guy]

The more educated you are on avalanches the more likely you are to die in one.........fact.

Really? Can you post the reference on that?

sled_guy

 

[phatty]

I'd be happy if people could figure out how to load there trailers, or bet yet drive with sleds on the back of there trailers.. Lets save the mountain classes for the advanced riders. The other week I saw some people speeding around a corner loose two sleds when the king pin in there tilt was tossed out (no safety chain).. sleds flew off.. and here is the kicker.. THEY WERE RIDING THE SLEDS ON THE TRAILER. Girl flys off the busted trailer with the sled gets pitched into the middle of the highway and breaks some bones.. lucky she was a wearing a helmet.

WTF? seriously... WTF?


Dizzle, i want to see some facts on the more training/death ratio... im not buying that one at all...

 

[OuraySledder]

I guess we are fortunate to be able to ride in areas where we almost never encounter other groups. When we do, they are rarely the kind of turkeys mentioned above.

Any one of the guys in my group would not hesitate for a second to confront dangerous behavior on the hill. We ride pretty dangerous terrain almost exclusively and if someone shot up the hill above someone in our group, there would be some "education" for sure.

About the best you can do is confront it when you see it. I ride with a very select group. I would always welcome someone new, but we ALWAYS have THE TALK before we ride. It is the others in your group you count on to save your butt if something goes wrong. Proper gear and proper training along with common sense is required. To get invited on the epic rides, you need to come practice avy techniques with us first.

I suppose that puts me in a higher risk group We have been doing it for years and so far we have never even seen something run big, much less have caused it...knock on wood.

Be Safe, Have Fun

 

[tudizzle]

WTF? seriously... WTF?


Dizzle, i want to see some facts on the more training/death ratio... im not buying that one at all...

It comes down to the fact that people that have avy training spend more time in that type of environment.....so the increased exposure increases their statistical rate of being in an avalanche.

Its not a education to death ratio. Maybe I over stated the die part and should have said caught in an avy...I'll have to do a quick search and see if I can find the link.

 

[tudizzle]

a bit from a paper published on Avalanche.org where avalanche studies have been revealing surprising stats.......

Over 1400 people responded to this survey and represented a diverse group.
Respondents were from all over the world, different age groups, different levels of
avalanche training and used all different travel methods. Some 90% of the respondents
were male but in other respects the survey appears to accurately reflect the diversity of
backcountry recreationists. 448 of the respondents have witnessed or been involved in
avalanche accidents, some more than once.
The analysis of the research hypotheses revealed that all variables were associated with
avalanche involvement and some interesting patterns were discovered. Those
participants that had the most avalanche training and were the most prepared were​

involved in more avalanches.


here is a link to the whole paper.

http://www.avalanche.org/~nac/NAC/techPages/theses/tase.pdf


Its a little long at 100 pages but has some interesting findings


-diz

 

[Himark]

i would guess that a majority of the tard riders out there dont look at online forums and have no clue about riding safely.

Thats the bad part I know several that are on here and when we talk to them about safety I hear "where we ride it really isnt dangerous" I just shake my head.

 

[800poodragon]

I can believe it to a point. People go the classes, get the gear to help them theoritically "survive" an avalanche and are more likely to go into the possible avalanche areas. The one thing they do say in the class is "if you think you have to have an airbag pack on to go up a climb, you probably should not even be on it". Granted you are taking a precaution but it is not a guarentee..

a bit from a paper published on Avalanche.org where avalanche studies have been revealing surprising stats.......

Over 1400 people responded to this survey and represented a diverse group.
Respondents were from all over the world, different age groups, different levels of
avalanche training and used all different travel methods. Some 90% of the respondents
were male but in other respects the survey appears to accurately reflect the diversity of
backcountry recreationists. 448 of the respondents have witnessed or been involved in
avalanche accidents, some more than once.
The analysis of the research hypotheses revealed that all variables were associated with
avalanche involvement and some interesting patterns were discovered. Those
participants that had the most avalanche training and were the most prepared were​

involved in more avalanches.


here is a link to the whole paper.

http://www.avalanche.org/~nac/NAC/techPages/theses/tase.pdf


Its a little long at 100 pages but has some interesting findings


-diz

 

[09M8HCR]

Fact: Flatlanders know how to see a avalanche zone and have better avalanche awareness as soon as a avalanche happens than locals that comes from the avalanche GOD MIKE DUFFY!!!

 

[Scott]

The more educated you are on avalanches the more likely you are to die in one.........fact.

If that were fact, then it might be due to being too comfortable for their own good.

I just need too rant, cause this is really starting to piss me off.

Was'nt last year with all those avi deaths a wake up call to you. How many more losses are we going to have before you get it and learn proper riding ethics, I see some flatlanders that know better than you. When you bought your machine did they give you a case of stupid pills too, and how many off them are you taking.

I think in most areas 70% of the people out there really don't have a clue about what you need to know about riding right in the mts.

Here is a good on I saw last weekend in one of my local zones, I wish I took pics of this group. Than you will say hey that's me and boy was that stupid what we did.
So this spot is a pretty big slope sub alpine it has a troff on it that goes on a angle pretty much one of the only ways up and out too the back side of the mt on this side. While me me and my buddy are on on of the lakes watching this group of about 10 coming down all together, two of them decide to high mark above the whole group that's coming down. STUPID STUPID STUPID.....
With the snow fractures and sluffs that we were seeing all day this group was lucky that this slope did'nt let go.

-Next, this is still the same group and close to the same area. I watch 4 of them charge up the same slope all at the same time, two of them nearly hit each other and this was on the slope we seen large fractures on. HHHMMM I wonder what would happen if that slope broke and all four of your were buried, the rest of your group would'nt even had a clue if it happened cause they were not to be seen. Me and my group would have had to rescue your retarded butts.

-Another one, This happened a few weeks ago. My crew and I were at one of our climbing bowls, we try to only put one person on the slope at a time while the rest watch at the safe zone. One of my friends get stuck, so we send one up to give him a hand and stops below him and walk the rest (being safe) while the rest off us will watch till the are down if anything should happen.
This new group comes into the area and two of them deside to show us there egos (more like stupidness) and start highmarking. One of them zips past my two friends that are on the slope highmarks right above them and nearly lost control.
Did you even think about of the safety of those two guys below you, what about if you lost total control and your sled hit them or if the slope gave away cause of you highmarking above them. Luck to them this person and his tiny group left right away. I was ready to ride over to they were and rip his key out and toss it in the snow, I was pissed cause you took that safety from my friends.

When are you people going to learn. Minimize that risk one at a time, safe zones ( don't sit in the avi runout zone), read the avi reports they are there for a reason, get gear beacon, probe, shovel and know how to use it and put it in your back pack, and get AVI TRAINING!!!!! they teach you you to use that gear properly and read those reports, etc, etc.

If you still want to ride like a retard, go do it some where else and quit putting other groups at risk.

Maybe there is a how to ride in the mts. bible for you that you should read.....

I think I am going to start taking pictures and posting them now, so these people will learn from their mistakes.

I don't know if you are referring to mtn "riders" or the actual residents who live in the mtns...Cause I've seen plenty of flatlander's names in the paper at Cooke or other places who get killed or get buried because of a total disregard for avy safety.

You know what pisses me off....all the stories I hear about at Cooke City...and seen myself in fact, where people from NoDak, SoDak, MN, WI or MI get killed when they are breaking all of the rules on the hill.

Not saying that the others aren't doing stupid things too....

Mountain residents are hardly the main culprit.
I'd like to see stats on states where victims are from.
In places like Cooke, I'd bet the balance will tip in favor of the flatlanders.
I'm just sayin....

 

[CatWoman]

We, as snowmobilers, do cover a lot of terrain in the course of a day. While some pits may get dug, it wouldn't be enough to engulf the entire area we ride in a day. I'm not discouraging digging pits........just adding something to it. I have yet to be out on a ride where there aren't trenches dug by members of our riding group, many times over throughout the day. It's very easy to look into those trenches and check out the snow layers (while in a safe area to do so).