Summit 850: Ratchet, Slap, Rocks and Carnage!!

[alt]

When will your cromoly arms be available?

They are and have been finished for about a week just waiting for them to return from the powder coater. Thinking by the end of the week I will be shipping. Most of them are already sold but there should be enough overage to carry through to the following batch going to PC right behind them.

 

[Xrider]

If weak brittle casting is the problem I'm not sure how skidoo will remedy it. Not sure about bandaid bracing ??

 

[alt]

If weak brittle casting is the problem I'm not sure how skidoo will remedy it. Not sure about bandaid bracing ??

That would be interesting to see what they come up with there. To reinforce that whole bulkhead I'm just not quite sure how that would be done easily

 

[Rotax_Kid]

That would be interesting to see what they come up with there. To reinforce that whole bulkhead I'm just not quite sure how that would be done easily

I don't believe it can be. I took a good look at the bulkhead when I had the pipe out last week. Just when I thought I had bracing figured out, someone pops up with another crack in a new spot that throws a curve ball. The a-arm mounts and module for the most part can be braced, but it's not overly pretty and is going to be somewhat complex. I get hung up on the swaybar mount - if it even is a problem - there are not many options on how to brace that area.

Looks like lots of white metal in these castings. With a few lbs of additional weight in the molds, more significant internal bracing and filleting to reduce stress concentrations, and perhaps a better recipe, it wouldn't be difficult to make these bulkheads significantly stronger. The current design may work if they could get some elasticity into the material like mild steel or even aluminum, but for a castings that rigid, any load has to go somewhere and it looks like some areas are a little too thin to take it.

Sorry to hear about your luck Christopher, I hope it's a quick turnaround for repair. Winter is too short for these things to sit in the shop waiting for parts.

 

[revrider07]

This sucks I was seriously looking at getting back on a doo. Remember in 08 when a pincone did This also. The snow over in the Jeffersons was not rideable IMO last week we tip toed around there and got out. Rocky mts.

 

[alt]

I don't believe it can be. I took a good look at the bulkhead when I had the pipe out last week. Just when I thought I had bracing figured out, someone pops up with another crack in a new spot that throws a curve ball. The a-arm mounts and module for the most part can be braced, but it's not overly pretty and is going to be somewhat complex. I get hung up on the swaybar mount - if it even is a problem - there are not many options on how to brace that area.

Looks like lots of white metal in these castings. With a few lbs of additional weight in the molds, more significant internal bracing and filleting to reduce stress concentrations, and perhaps a better recipe, it wouldn't be difficult to make these bulkheads significantly stronger. The current design may work if they could get some elasticity into the material like mild steel or even aluminum, but for a castings that rigid, any load has to go somewhere and it looks like some areas are a little too thin to take it.

Sorry to hear about your luck Christopher, I hope it's a quick turnaround for repair. Winter is too short for these things to sit in the shop waiting for parts.

Agreed and well said. It all comes down to "QUALITY MATERIAL".. go thin, that's fine, go aluminum, that's fine as well as hard to beat as a weight stand point, but for Pete's sake start with quality materials. The OEM's charge a pretty penny for these sleds give the customer what they have paid for. With technology today this should not happen to the extent it is. Again they are a 400# plus machine bouncing around through the rocks and stumps and are not bullet proof but I've seen way too much of this since the first Rev chassis. These are ALL greats sleds these days, look how far it's come just in the last 4_5 years but IMO it's time to go back to our roots with good AMERICAN made products. It's nice to ride a sled that's light and nimble but to have to ride a glass sled is no fun. Yes that was a rant. Sorry back to the shop

 

[05900]

Didn't you see the crate?

850's made in Italy???

 

[paulharris]

Skidoo owes an updated bulkhead to everyone who bought an 850 under warranty, period. If not, these sleds will be worth pennies for resale. I cant imagine you can brace it- that will just break in another spot. Do it right skidoo. Christopher, if i were in your shoes i would claim your insurance, take the checks, stuff them in the bank and dust off the yamahas until the 2018 skidoo model comes out.

 

[Reg2view]

Tough deal, Christopher, thanks for sharing, and demonstrating the virtue of personal responsibility. You da man. Xhit happens, fun isn't always free. Chaincase needs serious protection. Bulkheads, well...


I'd place a wager there is a metallurgy issue with a run of bulkheads - these are cast by sub-contractors, and certifying first year production parts can be a real crapshoot. This kind of recurring damage from minimal hits isn't just a design flaw. The early release sleds would have shown some of this damage if it was pure design, early season or not. Demo sleds get trashed.


I was an early adopter of the rev summit in 03/04, many here had the flying nun blues. Doo recognized the issue, and offered a three part race kit to strengthen the front - I put them on and slammed that summit around like a race sled, hit rocks and logs, liberated a-arms, and never tweaked the nun. Doo will figure this out - whether they tell us or not is another issue. Doo has to be chasing this right now through production run data. We'll see...

 

[christopher]

Talked with a friend the other day and he told me that who he has insurance with, IF the tunnel is bent the insurance company will total it. Hopefully not the same company as you have Chris.

There is absolutely NO REASON to total either of my sleds.
I would push back against that STRONGLY if my insurance company went that direction.

I am HOPING we can just STRAIGHTEN the tunnel

 

[christopher]

This sucks I was seriously looking at getting back on a doo. Remember in 08 when a pincone did This also. The snow over in the Jeffersons was not rideable IMO last week we tip toed around there and got out. Rocky mts.

There were places where it was GREAT and a whole lot of places where it was NOTHING BUT A MINEFIELD!

 

[christopher]

Tough deal, Christopher, thanks for sharing, and demonstrating the virtue of personal responsibility. You da man. Xhit happens, fun isn't always free. Chaincase needs serious protection. Bulkheads, well...


I'd place a wager there is a metallurgy issue with a run of bulkheads - these are cast by sub-contractors, and certifying first year production parts can be a real crapshoot. This kind of recurring damage from minimal hits isn't just a design flaw. The early release sleds would have shown some of this damage if it was pure design, early season or not. Demo sleds get trashed.


I was an early adopter of the rev summit in 03/04, many here had the flying nun blues. Doo recognized the issue, and offered a three part race kit to strengthen the front - I put them on and slammed that summit around like a race sled, hit rocks and logs, liberated a-arms, and never tweaked the nun. Doo will figure this out - whether they tell us or not is another issue. Doo has to be chasing this right now through production run data. We'll see...

Agreed, the chaincase simply MUST BE BETTER PROTECTED and that will be my first aftermarket modification, just as soon as I can find one I am confident in I will order 3 of them! Need to talk with Jeff at Skinz and see what he has coming. Had fantastic luck with his products for my Nytros for years.

If the bulkhead cracking really is a production/design issue, (and not just the result of my stupidity in riding over hidden landmines) then I am betting Doo will take care of its customer base in one way or another. Honestly right now I am just NOT all that worried. I consider the damage done entirely MY FAULT at this point and not Doo's.

 

[mountainhorse]

I believe that Pace Industries, the same casting specialist that makes the Polaris cast bulkheads, is making the G4 cast modules.

Castings by their nature are not weak... it has to do more with design and specification IMO. The Cast bulkheads in the Polaris Sleds have proven themselves over the last 6 model years....

I'm sure that we'll see some solutions from both the aftermarket and BRP in future iterations of this sled.



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[NorthMNSledder]

This sucks I was seriously looking at getting back on a doo. Remember in 08 when a pincone did This also. The snow over in the Jeffersons was not rideable IMO last week we tip toed around there and got out. Rocky mts.

I seriously expected to log into Snowest today and see the old XP pinecone picture photoshopped with the new Gen 4.

 

[MountainJunkie]

Chris, it may be your fault for tagging the rocks but it's not your fault that they removed reinforcements from previous models, left parts exposed and neglected to engineer failure points.

When you've got this many people on forums choked af about the bulkhead, there's something going on there.

 

[Trek]

I'm feeling pretty lucky.
My wife CREAMED a boulder last Saturday and pretzeled her upper a-arm. The outside of her right ski took 100% of the impact and all the damage was limited to the a-arm...and her leg when she went through the handlebars.

 

[Solarguy]

To be fair, I can NOT blame this damage on Doo.

We were riding VERY EARLY in powder with absolutely NO BASE whatsoever.

This really is 100% my fault.

But it shows there is significant room for structural improvement with some choice aftermarket Bolt-Ons...

I am so sorry about the carnage! I almost snow checked a doo but did not do the first year model. Got lucky with the 16 AXYS as it has weathered the first year test very well. While we are cautious early season riders
We do hit stuff. I have been over the bars on my AXYS more than once and lucky to have no damage other than one A arm early last year, it was a hard hit! Many other hits have not caused any damage.
We hope you get these sleds back together and get to a trouble free
Period that is all fun.
Been very fortunate to have several seasons of trouble free
Riding for the wife and I other than a couple bumpers for her and
One a arm for me. The sleds have been amazingly durable and dependable. Hopefully doo will re visit the areas that need improvement and the 18's will be more durable. None of us enjoy
shop time and costly repairs. Most of us riding newer 2 strokes have
NOT experienced this type of carnage. Hopefully doo will be good helping with upgrades to limit major repairs, even mid winter riding we occasionally glance of trees
and etc. sleds should be able to take a reasonable hit unscathed.
My fingers are crossed that your experience will improve!

 

[ntm_08]

I think the a arms are to strong! Axys is bending easily. Also add some bracing and its fix.

 

[Madtown]

This has got to be very frustrating to say the least. You have a fair amount of people having belt issues & possibly a poorly designed bulkhead yet have Doo PR guys posting up pictures of epic pow rides saying all is well. I would not be pleased to say the least. Nothing worse than to constantly wonder if your belt is going to blow up or if you tag something light the bulkhead is going to crack like a egg.

 

[mountainhorse]

I think the a arms are to strong! Axys is bending easily. Also add some bracing and its fix.

Even with strong/solid aftermarket arms like the Z-Broz, KMod and others... the Poo cast bulkheads don't seem to be suffering though.

And YES... The lower forged aluminum a-arms on the AXYS are a weak link that many are replacing with aftermarket units.






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