SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[AKSNOWRIDER]

I think all the bells and whistles are kinda cool. But if you guys want it simple then dont pay the premiun membership fee. Just get the basic for free. Quit Complaining. Sounds like they are just trying to give people more options. I love this site. I don't wanna pay either. Might be worth it. might not. Sounds like thats why they have options.
I would like to make a suggestion to Chris. Do we all get a trial of full premium membership to see if we want all the extra features?????

does that mean those who have been providing free technical info to any who ask then have the right to charge as well?..so you want to know about the hot ticket for clutching your hocky wombat to get the most out of it...hey i got just the setup for you...been proven out on the hill...for a measly .99 a post I will share my knowledge....sounds pretty stupid huh?How many times have you called team , or EPI or any other manufacturer and gotten totally acurate, totally spot on info for your setup?..ever hear a company tell you ..no you dont want our pipe for your sled in your area..it wont run good for you..instead you need to go get this pipe from this guy and it will do exactly what you want.........We (snowest members) are what makes this place work and so valuable....

 

[Idcatman3]

I think all the bells and whistles are kinda cool. But if you guys want it simple then dont pay the premiun membership fee. Just get the basic for free. Quit Complaining. Sounds like they are just trying to give people more options. I love this site. I don't wanna pay either. Might be worth it. might not. Sounds like thats why they have options.
I would like to make a suggestion to Chris. Do we all get a trial of full premium membership to see if we want all the extra features?????

It's been said numerous times that all the upgrades will be implemented first. Everyone gets to see all the features for quite a while before anyone has to pay anything.

 

[meche]

I think what really set me off is not the $10, but immediately following posts from an exclusive, hand picked series of staff members and moderators saying how great this is. Here I am in shock, and this just added to the lube feeling in preparation for what is to come. I was expecting either a locked thread with no follow on posts, or a constructive post complaining about the changes so I would not feel alone in my frustration.

 

[smoking_powerstroke]

Ok, Numb-knutz....Quick run-of-the mill example for one delivery technology:

Let's estimate the ATM bandwidth available on an OC-3. With
STS-3c SONET at 155.520 Mbps it gets reduced to 149.760 Mbps due to
section, line and path SONET overhead.

Next we reduce 10% due to 20 bytes lost on average 200 byte long
packets due to incomplete ATM cell fills resulting in 134.784 Mbps.

Then we need to subtract 9.43% due to ATM headers of 5 bytes in 53 byte
packets.

Thus we end up with a 122.069 Mbps true information rate which is about
78.5% of the nominal OC-3 capacity.


...as I said, rounding error - not even.



MD.

This is assuming they are running an OC-3 and not something like Metro Ethernet. But no matter what they run they will have over head and loose available bandwidth.

 

[smwizzz]

Tks

You just answered my next question. The Company is privately held. This means they answer to no one for financial statements, management or even the new buisiness plan. Simply put... it is their buisiness!!!

I noted also a suggestion for paying for VIP status. This does work. There are sites with this already. 4 wheeler.ca for one.

I also noted that there will be free stuff here still. Kinda falls into the pay for VIP category.

I think patience is the key here. I see way to many ppl here cranked up. I think before we leap we should look. Also, I see a lot of questions that were already answered at the beginning of this post. If this site is to progress we should refrain from adding to the load of the ppl working to get everything rolling. Legit questions are good, but questions that have been answered should be left on the shelf.

I have a suggestion. Christopher and staff: Could you take the Q/A from this page and do one more thread... read only if possible, and post in point form the origionnal info and the Q/A of the users here. I think this would eliminate the ppl who want a direct response to their post. It would also make the Q/A available without reading 40 + pages. I think this would sooth the situation. As I posted once before, most readers click and read a portion of the first page and then move to the last few pages and maybe leave a comment.... thus missing alot of valuable info... thus creating dupicate Q/A.

I do not think that I am going to be given corporate financial data on marketing and advertising to share on this forum.

Its a privately held corporation and it's their business, not mine.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

Go over there and read the posts in the welcome section that he has posted and you will have zero doubts that it IS him

I AM over there, and I like it, I still don't think that Christopher would be crass, foolish, or whatever enough to go "over there" and try to explain " I promise it will be better, it's exactly what you've been wanting all along, or whatever other liberal twisted crap they spew.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

Which would be great, if there were more advertisers.

MORE advertisers? ! ? You mean tracksUSA, Arctic Cat, Firstplaceparts.com, XXXModRods.com, Recreation Supply Co., Speedwerx, Holz Racing Products, MMP, Triton Trailers, Dalton Industries, RSI Racing, Yamaha, Ski Doo, Polaris, betweenthelinesdesigns, Snowbigdeal.com and . . . aren't enough? Holy crap, there should be enough advertising dollars coming in from them to support a few "upgrades". AND you don't get a more targeted audience for those advertisers than right here.

 

[arfrce]

Thats a good idea SMWIZZZ, about a Q/A thread. No inputs just questions and answers. I will have ask Christopher to create one.

As for Sturgis it seems that for some people that want to leave SW. Well, why are they still here? . Don't set around gripping about wanting to leave. Seems that the bad apples just want to make things worse here for the other sledders. This is a sledding site, not a school yard.
Be adult.

As for the advertisers, they should not have to pay for things like the max thread. There is nothing sledding about that thread.
And that is why what ever is left over goes to non-profit clubs to help our cause.

 

[yz400ex]

Thats a good idea SMWIZZZ, about a Q/A thread. No inputs just questions and answers. I will have Christopher create one.

As for Sturgis it seems that for some people that want to leave SW. Well, why are they still here? If you want to leave, leave. Don't set around gripping about wanting to leave. Seems that the bad apples just want to make things worse here for the other sledders. This is a sledding site, not a school yard.
Be adult. Do what you say.

Why would you even suggest people leave here?? At this point, you should be trying to change peoples mind to stay..Just because someone goes and registers on another site to weigh their options doesnt mean they should no longer be allowed here!! I was a member on many sites before I stumbled onto this one.. Now we should feel like we are no longer welcome on this site because we have tried somewhere else new??? How are people trying to make anything worse by stating actual facts and statistics so others can also base their decisions on this?

 

[dsp81]

MORE advertisers? ! ? You mean tracksUSA, Arctic Cat, Firstplaceparts.com, XXXModRods.com, Recreation Supply Co., Speedwerx, Holz Racing Products, MMP, Triton Trailers, Dalton Industries, RSI Racing, Yamaha, Ski Doo, Polaris, betweenthelinesdesigns, Snowbigdeal.com and . . . aren't enough? Holy crap, there should be enough advertising dollars coming in from them to support a few "upgrades". AND you don't get a more targeted audience for those advertisers than right here.

I'm saying the pool of advertisers is larger in the motorcycle industry. That means more total advertisers. Targeting is not the issue - because the ads on motorcyle sites are targeted, too. And, again, contrary to popular belief, it is very difficult to generate revenue from online advertising. So we have two choices here: (1) take what SW says at face value and believe that the ad revenue doesn't cover costs; or (2) call them liars and tell them they are doing it wrong. Either way, it doesn't really matter, because we don't have access to the ledger.

 

[arfrce]

I am not acting as a mod right now just a person.
I'm not suggesting anyone leave, actually I want them to stay. But these guys set here and say they are leaveing. But never do, they stay and stir up trouble for others. How can that better the site? I don't understand. This whole thing has been BLOWN out of control. That letter was not even done. And someone got a hold of it and released it. How can that help?

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

Thats a good idea SMWIZZZ, about a Q/A thread. No inputs just questions and answers. I will have ask Christopher to create one.

As for Sturgis it seems that for some people that want to leave SW. Well, why are they still here? If you want to leave, leave. Don't set around gripping about wanting to leave. Seems that the bad apples just want to make things worse here for the other sledders. This is a sledding site, not a school yard.
Be adult.

As for the advertisers, they should not have to pay for things like the max thread. There is nothing sledding about that thread.
And that is why what ever is left over goes to non-profit clubs to help our cause.

WRONGGGGG ! ! ! We don't want to leave but we feel as though we are being told "Thank you for sharing knowledge that we provide as content to newbies making this "THE" fisrt place people go for technical info and repair tips, we really like you so we're going to charge you to provide our content now. PLUS we are going to make this place so over moderated and put in the most convoluted navigation to make it "better", trust us, your really really going to like the new Snowest.

THAT is why we are kicking and screaming, the ones that don't give a rat's azz have already left with a crappy taste in their mouth.

 

[smwizzz]

Hmmmm.....

You start that and I will be jumping on the kill SW bandwagon. I already use e-bay and kijiji. Kijii sucks!!! At least with e-bay things generally sell. SW can't even come close to e-bay. Here everyone is looking for that special deal. In saying this, I am not referring to being cheap. I am referring to a good buy, or exceptional service, or just info. E-bay is about buying and selling... period!!! E-bay has the exposure. Not just because they have the servers in place, own Pay-Pal and have a $2000 guarantee on deals made online, but because they have been around for a long time and everyone knows them. Kijiji on the other hand has been around for awhile, has not refined their site for the salesman, charges way more than e-bay for everything!!! And!!! Generally stinks!!! Snowest is a long way from either of these sites. They... I could be wrong.... have no experience in this market. Advertising is way different. The sales generated by these ads have nothing to do with SW. SW is not liable for sales generated by these ads. SW makes $$$ based on views and hits to these adds.... come on guys! Don't think there are a lot of ppl here who have a clue how these sites work. There are ppl who spend their time online making a living with a web site full of others adds. Use stumble upon and twitter and facebook and... and... use your imagination to generate hits. Don't go down this road, it is the one that will bite you. Make a VIP pay site. Leave a general free area, but stay away from charging commissions for selling. If you want a sales site, fine design one and link it to SW, but call it something else and dedicate it to sales, not snomobilers.

My $2 and 25 cents....

And you don't think that would launch EXACTLY the same bevy of complaints that this has, with all the same comments?? Come on, you know better. They would be just as angry and hateful as everyone here has been.

 

[yz400ex]

I am not acting as a mod right now just a person.
I'm not suggesting anyone leave, actually I want them to stay. But these guys set here and say they are leaveing. But never do, they stay and stir up trouble for others. How can that better the site? I don't understand. This whole thing has been BLOWN out of control. That letter was not even done. And someone got a hold of it and released it. How can that help?

You are right.. everything has been blown out of control.. Lots of people are saying they are going to leave, but I am sure that they will not completely leave until the fees are to be paid, then you can bet it will be more than just a threat from the majority of people who said they are done.. I myself cant say either way at this point.. I am one of those people who are weighing other options and if the grass is greener, you know how this will end.. Just not a good idea to come on here and say if you plan to leave then leave.. That is an attitude that will lose potential customers that were planning on staying.. guaranteed!

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

I'm saying the pool of advertisers is larger in the motorcycle industry. That means more total advertisers. Targeting is not the issue - because the ads on motorcyle sites are targeted, too. And, again, contrary to popular belief, it is very difficult to generate revenue from online advertising. So we have two choices here: (1) take what SW says at face value and believe that the ad revenue doesn't cover costs; or (2) call them liars and tell them they are doing it wrong. Either way, it doesn't really matter, because we don't have access to the ledger.

I believe that the ad revenue doesn't cover costs, but the reason it doesn't appears to be due to some ineptness, I mean what IT/Web developer does NOT know what his advertisers are paying for their ads? I doubt he knows the click thrus or the conversions either. HMMMMM and then you wonder why we seem skeptical, throwing more money at the problem will not help, you need someone that knows what the heck is going on, and apparently there is no one there that does.

 

[smwizzz]

shout box

Dude:

FYI: You can click the little arrow on the right at the top corner of shout box to make it go away. I hear ya, not everyone wants it.... maybe it'll be a pay thing... hopefully!!!!

First, I will say that I understand there are costs involved with running a site.

However I am one that does more reading and occasional posting. My time is valuable and I don't sit here for hours on end hoping that my buddies are line at the same time. I don't need or use the current shout box and find it more of a nuisance than anything.

Most of the other things you have listed as being able to have with the fee are of no interest to me as well.

I belong to several other forums that operate the same way, visit them occasionally and they don't have a fee, nor has there been any disscussion in doing so. You may want to consider the size and number of people on Facebook vs. the number of members on snowest and ask yourself how they operate with no fee.

In my opinion, you may want to rethink this before moving forward.

Thanks for asking,

m

 

[Cheeto]

I apologize up front if this comes across as rude. I'm simply asking questions and requesting answers.

Given the size of the market and the number of advertisers, SnoWest has trouble keeping up with equipment and bandwidth costs.

How is it you know this and the guy who's job it is to run this site doesn't?

Which would be great, if there were more advertisers.

Easy. As I said before, no hawking your crap in your sig unless you are a site supporter.

You just answered my next question. The Company is privately held. This means they answer to no one for financial statements, management or even the new buisiness plan. Simply put... it is their buisiness!!!

You're absolutely right, it is their business. It's also the business of the guy who is expected to maintain the operations of this site to know how it is supported. When he sees trouble he should inform the business it is in danger and get the answers.

... And, again, contrary to popular belief, it is very difficult to generate revenue from online advertising..

And yet scores of sites, large and small, manage to do it everyday.

... we don't have access to the ledger.

Did I mis-quote you above or were you simply parroting what has been claimed.

 

[dsp81]

I believe that the ad revenue doesn't cover costs, but the reason it doesn't appears to be due to some ineptness, I mean what IT/Web developer does NOT know what his advertisers are paying for their ads? I doubt he knows the click thrus or the conversions either. HMMMMM and then you wonder why we seem skeptical, throwing more money at the problem will not help, you need someone that knows what the heck is going on, and apparently there is no one there that does.

Just because Christopher does not know / does not tell, does not mean that it is not known. I worked at HP and I personally guarantee to you that they know. I was said web developer and I did not know the cost of advertising or how much revenue it generated. I didn't need to know. I did what the publisher and owners asked me to do. They made the decisions.

I'm not sure, however, what it would add to the conversation for SW to release sales revenue numbers. Other than to release information to the public about ad costs that could then be used by advertisers in bargaining.

 

[arfrce]

I agree. I took that out. I don't want anyone to leave. If anything want more people to join. All this kinda caught every one by surprise when it was leaked. That throws everything out of whack. And then hasty decisions get made so the members get their answers.
Some people thrive on chaos. I am not one of them. I hate argueing with people. And you are not being rude ^ you just want to know. Thats why I am going to ask Christopher to create a Q/A thread. Anything that is not a Question or answer will be put in here most likely. Does that sound right to you guys?

 

[dsp81]

How is it you know this and the guy who's job it is to run this site doesn't?

He has said that forum advertising does not cover costs.

Easy. As I said before, no hawking your crap in your sig unless you are a site supporter.

I have no issue with this.

You're absolutely right, it is their business. It's also the business of the guy who is expected to maintain the operations of this site to know how it is supported. When he sees trouble to

But it's not your business to know that information. And it's not really necessary. He does what he is instructed to do. He doesn't need access to budget models unless they want him to have access.

And yet scores of sites, large and small, manage to do it everyday.

While a great anecdote, the market research indicates it is difficult to use web-based advertising. A couple different sources have been cited. You can find more with a simple Google search.

Did I mis-quote you above or were you simply parroting what has been claimed.

I'm saying that any guess we (users of this forum, not SW/HP employees) might thow out there would be exactly that: a guess.