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SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

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Christopher,

I guess I'll give you my opinion as one of the guys who is just a reader. I like reading snowest, being from Utah I spend alot of time in the Utah forum for snow reports, the entertainment value, and I relate to the places they talk about. Don't post much, because that's just the way I am, but personally I'd rather read snowest (or other forums) than watch some dumb reality TV show.

But my problem with this whole thread...and I did read all 20+ pages....is that I see this as a bailout for a company that for 11 years has mis-managed one of it's commodities. I guess I can't understand why companies don't do something sooner about a division of that company that has cost them money year after year. And now we're trying to recover from the worst economic cruch in decades and HP has finally decided to do something about it? Timing is way off here. If the advertising dollars aren't covering costs, then either raise the price of advertising or reduce the costs...don't incure more...and don't charge your customer to get in the door when they can get a similar product elsewhere for nothing. That's bad business sense. I agree with everyone that says $10 a year is not much when a new sled costs $10k, but if HP thinks they can compete with a comparable site that is free (any other sled site)....I'm afraid they are going to find that that is a tall order. That's basic economics.....People go where things are cheap...just take Walmart for example.

And, I think that HP's business model has some flaws. I'm having a hard time believing that with the cost of the subscription to the print magazine...which has an awful lot of advertisements in it...along with the ads on snowest.com, that HP can't afford to manage the forum to at least break even. Who's running HP...Rick Wagoner?;)

So, my question is....What does it cost to run a forum like this in a "self-supporting" manner, and why can others do it for free?

Just so you know...I don't want to see snowest reduced to a smoldering pile of ashes and I'm not against paying the money, but I probably won't do it right up front...I'd like to see who and what is still around when the fire is out.




OK, I will call it like it is.
The site has LOST MONEY for 11 out of 11 years and they are tired of it and want it to become 100% SELF SUPPORTING.
 
Take us back to last summer when Big D was still in charge, had just opened up the rep givers; basically the hay day of this site, demote Christopher, and I'll be GLAD TO PAY $50 A YEAR!! Who wants my credit card?

If something like this was to happen, I guarntee you could buy all the bandwidth you wanted.

If this isn't an option and christophers big plan goes through, then I sure hope people like BigJohn, Vohk, Curt from Fastrax, and RKT (no disrespect to others I didn't include) are PAID for the their tech info given.
 
I am SO TIRED of this worn out BS charge against me that your husband keeps spamming all over the forums.

NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT.

I have exchanged 6 mails with him now explaining that NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT and still you continue on.

Please, accept the fact that NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT.

Honestly, none of us are lying to you!
Let it go...


Guess you could call it a "glitch" of your program to block B ackcou ntryrebel.com

It automatically changed his name to snowestislife...lol

would have been funnier if you had done it on purpose tough :D

did that same glitch change my poll ;)
 
this little pay venture is going to net SW between 300k to over a mil per year..

I for one am done with this site after it goes to pay. In the past I have read and enjoyed this site during the fall to the point that I go snowmobiling.

The Information and opinions that I get off of this site can and in the future getting off of other forums that I dont have to pay for....
 
If this was a PROFIT CENTER and was throwing off cash for the last 11 years, then you would be dead nuts right.

But its not, and it hasn't and there is no real expectation that it will.

Your analogy might be better like this.

The school building and facilities have been owned and operated by Harris for years,

The teachers have been their rooms to teach at their leisure and the students have had free admission.

All the while Harris has been paying for the building that everyone has been enjoying.

And now, after 11 years, they are asking all the students to pay a very small fee to cover all of the costs of that building, maintenance and upkeep.

You do make a few good points....but HP did the forum for name recognition as well. Everyone in the snowmobile industry, riders, suppliers ect know who SNOWEST is, and a big part of that is because of the forum. 36000 sledders know who Snowest is because of this forum. If it where not for the forum, It is my opinion that the mag would be the same as the rest on the rack....which ones are there now???? I know there are a few....
I only buy SNOWEST because I have been a part of the family.
 
I couldn't bother reading 24 pages (plus it gets longer as I read a page) but I'm wondering Snowest will charge for membership so that they can offer nothing more then a forum for helpful people to offer sled mod advice to people that have questions about doing mods to their sleds.

Money grab??

Currently I look at Snowest for the occasional mod that I do, and to see pictures of what others have done to their sleds. And out of the 30 different forums (not counting the sub-forums) I currently look at 3, I'm sure I'm not the only one in that situation. With all the free forums out there with equally available advice, why bother paying someone else and get nothing to show for it from them. And the little "goodies" that will be done with the forums offer nothing in the way of incentive to buy a membership to a forum.
 
Guest:
* Will have the ability to see all the forums and read a portion of all the threads
* Will be able to READ SwapMeet Forum
* Will be able to READ the SnowSafety Forum
* Will be able to READ the SnowMembers Forum


Basic Member:
This level will be completely free. Members here will have all of the privileges of a guest, but will also get:
* Full posting ability in the SwapMeet forum, the SnowSafety forum, and the SnowMembers forum
* Limited posting ability in the other forums
* Limited ability to read other topics and forums
* Private Message Capabilities with limited storage

Premium Member:
All of the above privileges, plus:
* Unlimited viewing and posting privileges across the forums
* Unrestricted private-message capability
* Unrestricted access to all of the new features (chat rooms, treadmill, live-topic, etc.)
* Instant-Messenger
* Personal Blog
* Photo Albums
* "My Garage"
* Polls
* Enhanced Search Engine
* Social Groups
* Invitations to meetups and group rides
* ... And MUCH MUCH more!!!

i use this site everyday........and by the looks of these categories im a basic member from my use, i doubt i will use the premium member features but i may...

basic member is FREE, ive seen a few posts that are like i barely use this site and i have dial up and bla bla bla well ITS STILL FREE, can anyone read? your b*tching about features you wont use and b*tching about only reading the site time to time with the odd post and b*tching about cost but you will only ever need the basic and its still FREE

i cant believe that people have $10,000 sleds and thoughsands of dollers in mods buttttttt can spend $30 on a year subscription, yet they offer you a deal if you are allready a member... so its even less! you cant find information on here anywhere else, im a memeber to a few other main forums like hard core sledder, well unless your posting pics of your mods on your sled NO ONE CARES. you ask a question and it gets hundreds of views and no one answeres. Im on snow and mud and its great, lots of great people and some good information but literly not nearly the amount of info as on here and i bet alot of it a person seen it on here and reposted there.....i know i do it all the time.
 
I didn't even have to read this notice to know what it was about.

I laugh at people worrying about being "Clicked" They don't remember the Good Old Days when there was about 300 members. Good times.

I've been a member since 1998 or right after it started, it's been so long I don't remember for sure.

I will say, some moto forums tried the 30 dollar per year deal, and it killed the forums. Most went to Magazines forums, instead of independently run private forums.

Either way, at 30 bucks for 3 years, I think anyone can handle that. I've met some of my best riding friends through here, and also personal friends.

Plus, for 30 bucks over 3 years, you can't buy the kind of entertainment you find here.

I mean, the bickering of the Obertis bashing each other from the beginning, and the Colorado guys bashing the couch riders......

I don't surf as much as in the early, early years, but Either way, I'm in.

Let me know where to send the ching.

Paul Garthwaite Team Mortgage and Realty
Lending, Title, Escrow, and R.E. Services
13446 Poway Rd. # 227
Poway, CA 92064-4714
Office Toll Free: 888-978-9048

Direct: 760-390-9800
Direct Fax 24 Hour: 760-896-6003
E-Mail: MtgPaul@Yahoo.com
E-Mail2: Paul.Garthwaite@TeamMortgageAndCredit.com
Web: http://www.TeamMortgageAndCredit.com
 
If you charge for service I'm afraid your " 6 lane Freeway" will be very quiet. I anticipate a death spiral of advertisers leaving, lots of readers leaving, and the demise of this great site. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me that folks actually boycott advertisers in an effort to get them to advertise on the forums that are free.

It's not that we can't afford it- we obviously spend thousands of dollars on this sport. It's the fact that the internet is supposed to be free and there are a lot of us that won't pay for a site where we have to see advertising.

But it's your choice and your business- good luck with it.
 
oh and christopher about having a different URL to log into so my work dosent block snowest because its classified under Vehicles........did one post today on snow and mud and i went to look later and after a YEAR of the occasional look a day forums and social sites is now blocked.............F8CKING BS, im not on all day, if i am there is nothing to do. Im an adult not a child.......i make the company alot of money and never take my half and hour of coffee breaks and YET they have to police my internet? If im not getting projects done its reflected in other areas, and my boss will notice im not meeting deadlines. even my boss has to use quota time....
 
If this was a PROFIT CENTER and was throwing off cash for the last 11 years, then you would be dead nuts right.

But its not, and it hasn't and there is no real expectation that it will.

Your analogy might be better like this.

The school building and facilities have been owned and operated by Harris for years,

The teachers have been their rooms to teach at their leisure and the students have had free admission.

All the while Harris has been paying for the building that everyone has been enjoying.

And now, after 11 years, they are asking all the students to pay a very small fee to cover all of the costs of that building, maintenance and upkeep.

Do you honestly expect us to believe that they have furnished this site for yrs out of the goodness of their hearts???

It has been a very cheap and effective tool used to advertise.

Everyone has profited because of this site, users and HP. Both sides are totally dependent on the other to have anything of value here.

It has worked very well for HP or they would never have hired you at a price tag that makes the 30,000 in up grades look like chump change, lets at least be honest about what HP has gained from having some of the best technical advice handed out for free.
 
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subscriptions should get discounts from advertisers on site

Some of the sites that I've been apart of will give you a discount on parts from there main advertisers/sellers to make the subscription price fair to all....

I liked the old system, never cared much for change, Slow free site was never a problem for me.... I feel sorry for the people on dial up....

Like always a few bad apples ruin it for everyone....

I'm sure I will get a membership but I hate being forced to do anything....


my .02
 
I usually dont chime in on a lot of these things, I figured I would throw my thoughts out there.. First of all, almost all of the "changes" that are being made or have been made are useless to me. I couldnt care less about the changes 4-18. They mean nothing to me.. The site was fine w/out this stuff. Most people wont even use this stuff. No other site forum that I have ever been a part of has had this and things for me were just fine.. Am I against change?? Absolutely not!! I just dont see the point in un-needed change. Goes back to the old saying "dont fix it if it isnt broken" which I never felt this site was until lately. The new swapmeet is just stupid and from the looks of the amount of ads in there, I am NOT the only person who thinks this. Things were simple before. Some changes I do like were the ones to the Topics and Sub Topics. Help put you in the right direction, but for the most part everything else is kind of a waste of time.. Does anyone really need to know my status?? If they do, go to Facebook or Myspace.. Not Snowest. As of late the speeds have been very slow and this seem to come with the changes made with this site.. I know this has been denied, but it has been my experience that since the changes took effect, the site went slower.. During this slow/down time (waiting for the page to load) it gave me the opportunity to check out other sites and give them a shot to see what they had to offer. I have to say there are a few out there that are promising.. None of these currently have the same amount of information or knowledge that this site currently does, but if things go in the direction that it sounds like it is going to, these people that provided all the helpful knowledge to this site will be on these other sites and provide the same helpful knowledge. This site has been GREAT for me and very helpful with all the information I came seeking.. Met some great people, but again I think these people will also move over to the other options once the cost of using the forum goes into effect. Am I saying I am against paying?? No, but I feel that a $30 cost if rediculous.. $10 a year doesnt sound too bad, but what happens if this all goes under in the next 1-2 years and there is no forum anymore?? Do I get a refund?? I know that sounds trivial, but its a reality.. I know there is a Die Hard Snowest family out there and they will have no issues in paying these dues, but it is the "majority rules" outlook on this that tells everyone that this will not be enough to keep this site a float.. I think having to pay for services you will not utilize is a waste and as said before, most of the new features people wont even find useful. Some will, but I feel most wont.. Again, this is all my opinion. At this point I am not saying I will or will not pay.. Time will tell on that, but with other sites out there basically identical to this site, I dont see much point.. Thanks to anyone who took the time to listen to me ramble!!:D
 
What a bummer. this has been my FAVORITE forum ever, and i've been involved with many.

Dieselplace
M3Forums
Audiworld (dead now)
DooTalk
iClub
ThumperTalk
350znet

the list goes on. NONE of those charge money and all have been very successful in their own right. you start charing on here and this forum is finished...

Just my $.02
 
Guest:

i cant believe that people have $10,000 sleds and thoughsands of dollers in mods buttttttt can spend $30 on a year subscription, yet they offer you a deal if you are allready a member... so its even less! you cant find information on here anywhere else, im a memeber to a few other main forums like hard core sledder, well unless your posting pics of your mods on your sled NO ONE CARES. you ask a question and it gets hundreds of views and no one answeres. Im on snow and mud and its great, lots of great people and some good information but literly not nearly the amount of info as on here and i bet alot of it a person seen it on here and reposted there.....i know i do it all the time.

What scares me, and Im sure a few others is an apparent lack of planning and thought to the actions. Im not sure if you have ever sat in a board room, but with any large company, there is planning, stats, projections ect.

Here, I am hearing under estimated, don't know the impact on membership, not sure of number of subscribers, trail blazing with no known outcome.
Its a strange course to buy into. And its scarry because we are fond of our community and the stats (from what other members have said...if its accurate) with other sites doing this is 100% failure.

There is no known destination...just fly by your pants leadership.

The old saying is: If you don't know where your going, it doesn't matter what road you take.
 
oh and christopher about having a different URL to log into so my work dosent block snowest because its classified under Vehicles........did one post today on snow and mud and i went to look later and after a YEAR of the occasional look a day forums and social sites is now blocked.............F8CKING BS, im not on all day, if i am there is nothing to do. Im an adult not a child.......i make the company alot of money and never take my half and hour of coffee breaks and YET they have to police my internet? If im not getting projects done its reflected in other areas, and my boss will notice im not meeting deadlines. even my boss has to use quota time....

Could someone translate this for me
 
Fees will hinder community growth

Hi there,

I have never owned a snowmobile (a shame since I grew up in the Canadian Rockies), and was first introduced to sledding last year through a friend. I had a blast and so this summer I set out to learn as much as I could about this sport.

I was having terrible luck finding a good web resource that had the topics I was looking for and knowledgeable members. That was until I stumbled across SnoWest...

I have been an avid reader of the forums for 6 months now. Unfortunately due to the economy, I have been reluctant to getting into the sport this winter. Maybe next year.

The point I would like to make is that had this website been subscription based back in the summer when I first stumbled upon the forums, I would never have purchased a subscription and would never have furthered my interest into the sport.

I am sure that there are other members out there (and even non members) that discovered the forums via web searches and piqued their interest into sledding.

Now, SnoWest may succeed with a subscription based site, but I don't foresee much growth in new memberships beyond maybe the maybe 10% of members that are active users. Personally, the new 'frills' are not enough to get me to pay for use. When the free use is up I will be seeking other forums to further my interest into sledding. Hopefully I will see some of the other SnoWest members on these 'other' forums.

Best of luck SnoWest... you're going to need it!
 
So in the first post it said there was 35,000 people on Snowest and that membership was $9.99. So if everybody paid, you would have $350,000. Where is that money going? Does it cost that much to run an online forum?
 
I haven’t been a member here since the beginning like a lot of folks. But what brought me here is just as important.

I was attracted by the technical information, the help, the suggestions, the ability to learn and grow into a sport I love. I have met some really great people, friends that I would have never otherwise met. All of these things brought me here and have kept me here.

I would like to believe Chris you are trying to make things better, but your actions don’t seem to hold to this theme. You added a lot of features that slowed down this forum, made it LESS user friendly, and created a environment that is over compartmentalized and feels less genuine.

Now you are asking even more. I have read the many threads of people telling you what they want and need in this forum and more frequent what they don’t.

See what you seem to not value is the members on this forum. You are creating a forum that people don’t enjoy anymore and to add insult to injury you are asking us to pay for it.

Like others, while the money itself is not the issue, there’s the principal. If it meant I had to pay for everything I have now, yeah I would do it. What worries me is others won’t. The others that made this forum what it is. The others that haven’t discovered the forum yet. Without them I am also gone. If you think for even a second, there isn’t another free forum ready to scoop up the fallout from this…………..

Christopher this is a slippery slope your taking Snowest down, I hope the folks that pull your strings understand this! :(
 
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