SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[CA-Catman]

Fine with me

Well I have been a member for I think 7 years now and enjoy reading alot of things on here. I don't post very often , however nothing is free forever
and everything cost something. So having said that I have NO problem paying!!!. No matter what is done there is always someone who doesn't like it.

I buy Snowest 3 years at a time now and I will pay 3 years at a time for the
use of this forum, I know times are tough but if you have a sled its not cheap
to run or operate it ,so the way I see it the cost to be a member of the forum
is a bargain.

 

[Brian]

I'll sell ya 100Mbps for $6500/mo + colocation fee w/ two egress peers.
Dedicated FE, or rate-shaped burstable GE - your choice.
There's a reference point for you.

So that's $65/mo/meg (plus the co-lo space, which is probably around $300 of that price you just mentioned)..... This goes back to my original point -- if you want the bandwidth to be cheaper, you've got to buy in mass volume. We are NOWHERE near needing a 100-meg pipe. (At peak time right now, we use 6). So, thanks for the "baseline", but if we paid $78,000 a year in hosting fees, we'd have to charge a lot more than $15 a year.

As for the rest of your post, I'm a CCIE, so I think I have at least a basic understanding of how BGP works.

Thirdly, as you've correctly pointed out, I'm not seeking to do my own peering. I need a data-center co-lo provider that will do it for me. I think we can squeeze this down to around $120/mb/mo.. but if you want to take advantage of their redundant network, they won't go much lower than this unless you buy in MASSIVE volume.

So THANK YOU for proving that we're not making these numbers up. I appreciate it.

 

[christopher]

I have no issue with the cost as long as the service is improved upon and it sounds like it will be..

I am absolutely certain that we can restore all lost performance, and then add significantly more than was ever here before.

 

[Flamedcummins]

Well, i havent read through this entire thread, honestly dont plan on it. From my standpoint the price really isnt to bad...i paid more for my membership on cumminsforum.com......HOWEVER i really dont need to spend the money on a forum that i will really only be using fall threw spring and then i get to busy and the sleds are put away. I have been a member on thirdgen.org since 1999 i have not paid a cent for it and have all the fancy crap you guys are adding, the garages and messaging blah blah, i have never used it, not even sure how to work it, same as the cumminsforum, i paid for the premium subscription and dont use all the bells and whistles, every forum i have ever belonged to has been basically limited to how many pics, how many messages in your inbox, and some have a premium members only section...Free.. why would i pay here for the stuff i can get for free somewhere else? Now i realize the descision has been made, probably made quite some time ago and the members opinions apparently havent meant anything, but i'd definately have to see a much greater improvement to this site to pay the money. just my .02

 

[Dogmeat]

Eh, $15 a year isn't that bad....

I thought it was gonna be like a $100 charge or something .... heh

Also, you guys otta include like a discounted BRC membership in the deal ...

Like you get the forum membership, print subscription, and a year-long BRC membership for like $50 or something......

 

[christopher]

Any chance these questions can get answered?

So long as there is Harris Publishing and SnoWest Magazine, there will be a SnoWest Forums.

Unless the corporation closes it's doors, we will not be going anywhere.

 

[GODEEP]

Excuse me?

Fully redundant tier-1 bandwidth is NOT cheap, especially if purchased from data-center providers. We don't operate off MAE-West (or anything like that), so we have to pay a little more since we're not sitting in a carrier hotel. You CAN buy gigabit pipes in the $20/meg range -- but we're not quite big enough to buy in that kind of volume -- and at that price, it's not redundant (Goes to about $80 to get 4x redundancy). Maybe next winter? =)

If you can get me a better deal on a quad-redundant 12mb pipe in a tier-1 data-center in Utah or Idaho, please PM me. (Prefer AT&T, XO, and Cogent for at least 3 of the 4 carriers in the mix -- and all 4 must be willing to do BGP peering).

The discount-guys offering this stuff for under $10 require that you buy in MASSIVE bulk (we are not big enough for that yet), and they are generally delivering a pretty crappy product. Further, I don't need a gig. I need 12mb/s.

If I put you in contact with a company I have dealt with for the past 10 years that could do everything you need for a rediculous cost difference than what you guys are blabing, would you keep the forum free, bow down and appologize for not knowing what your talking about, fire the current persons in charge of this site and return it back to what everyone loved about this place????

 

[captain-sno]

I am not being threatening. I just think he would be safer. There are definitely some ruffled feathers here and we all know what this 4m has meant to us over the years. The debate is hot here right now, but in person who knows what might happen. I know many have taken all of this very personal and it might not take much to make it personal given the chance.

Besides, I am a woman. You think I would hit him?

I agree....but it should never get even close to that. There have been many extremely bad managers and admins, look at the banking system. Just because we have another computer nerd (his term for himself in his profile that he posted to introduce himself) that is screwing up a good thing business wise is no reason to suggest hurt. His Bosses seeing his failure and letting him go will be hurt enough, sadly for his family as well.

Please, no threats or suggestions of possible personal harm...its not the answer to anything!

 

[christopher]

Christopher really blew it when he changed my husband's log in name last night -- (I guess he thinks he is funny)--because my husband voiced his opinion and many others agreed. Christopher is unprofessional and he is supposed to represent Snowwest--nice job!
Abby

I am SO TIRED of this worn out BS charge against me that your husband keeps spamming all over the forums.

NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT.

I have exchanged 6 mails with him now explaining that NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT and still you continue on.

Please, accept the fact that NO ONE TOUCHED HIS ACCOUNT.

Honestly, none of us are lying to you!
Let it go...

 

[mb]

The fee's are very reasonable. I personally have gotten mulitipale times that in value from this site already. We blow $ 100.00's and $1000.00 of dollars every weekend doing the sport and a lot of us have been able to midigate repair costs, etc by being able to share, trade or communicate by virtue of this site. I am in at what ever the annual fee is.

 

[HOBB-Z]

Just print up a snowest sticker, charge $14.95 for it and throw in a free years subscription with every purchase. It's worked on other sled forums.

Now that is one of the best ideas I've seen so far, charge an additional 4.95
to add a forum name plus shipping and the problem is solved.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

YOU NAILED IT.

If the members of SnoWest don't see value in being a member, then I am sure they will leave.

Those that see real value for their dollars and time, will stick around.

UNFORTUNATELY you seem to miss the point, WHY should someone that has a ton of knowledge about sledding, conditions, etc. PAY to share that knowledge with someone who needs it? HP is the one making the money off of that knowledge and information. That is like a school charging the teacher to teach the students, after all they are providing the school/heat/overhead/bandwidth and/or servers.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

I'm in.

Set up the online credit card thingy and say when.

 

[cpsandsons]

I have no problem paying only $10.00 for a site I get alot out of. Now if it hits a $100 a year its GO TIME!

 

[JROD]

Seems to me it's worth the price if you're looking to get involved in the sport and have tons of questions and much to gain but what about those of us that check in every once in a while and in the long run spend more time answering questions and giving tech advice because we've been in the sport for a number of years? Do we get a discount? It's because of the people that supply the advice, the experience, and the know-how that got the SnoWest forums to where they are today and it's a slap in the face to them by what is taken place.

So I pay you $30 per year to answer questions that only benefit you? I've kept a great reputation throughout my 5 year span on this forum and worked hard to keep it that way. I enjoy the camaraderie that has been created between myself and other upstanding members of the forum.

I've tried to support Harris Publishing before by subscribing to your overpriced "magazine" of advertisements that more closely resembles a sunday morning paper than a magazine dedicated to the sport of snowmobiling. It seems like more often that it's hard to find a true supporter of the sport. More often than not it's another "business man" looking to tap into a niche in order to line his own pockets.

"Harris Publishing isn't going anywhere and we're investing heavily into our future," yet it seems the subscribers are the ones investing into YOUR future and at a time where the middle-class has been hit the hardest. So for example, if say half of the current members choose to get a 1 year subscription that's $540,000 invested into this forum!!! Really?!?! Way to show your true colors Harris Publishing! Good luck with that Health Care Reform!!! I'm sure you're banking on that too.

 

[suitcase]

Since this has all started, I have been to some of the other sites that have been talked about, mostly the ones that everyone says is so great and we should all move to, Just so everyone hears me I am not bashing, this is my opinion of these other sites). I for one would say they are not easy to navigate around to find certain topics I wish to research. They are not easy to read or see what you are reading or viewing. With enough input on that, I must say this site is very easy and userfriendly. Easy to read and see what it is your researching, with that said Where do I send my whoppin 30 bucks for my 3 yr. subscription.

 

[87gtNOS]

I have been a member for years, I just don't post much as I am a flatlander.

I am 100% against paid membership. I haven't read all the pages of this thread and figure it must have been argued already...but here goes...imagine 36000 members paid $10 each????? That's $360000!!

Before I get attacked....I am a PAID member on Totally Yamaha....HOWEVER, as an UNPAID member, I would not be restricted in any way, other than maybe my message box may be smaller.

This website makes enough money without collecting a membership fee, just on advertising alone. Don't be fooled.

Harris Publishing is simply looking for a cash COW. This is it!

These corporate owned websites better remember one thing, these sites are nothing without the grassroots beginnings and the members posting.

I'll stick with the privately owned forums, Freedomsledder, 2kool's forums, etc...It wouldn't take much to make those forums really take off with just a little more membership (free!).
Harris Publishing should be careful with a decision like this.

 

[christopher]

UNFORTUNATELY you seem to miss the point, WHY should someone that has a ton of knowledge about sledding, conditions, etc. PAY to share that knowledge with someone who needs it? HP is the one making the money off of that knowledge and information. That is like a school charging the teacher to teach the students, after all they are providing the school/heat/overhead/bandwidth and/or servers.

If this was a PROFIT CENTER and was throwing off cash for the last 11 years, then you would be dead nuts right.

But its not, and it hasn't and there is no real expectation that it will.

Your analogy might be better like this.

The school building and facilities have been owned and operated by Harris for years,

The teachers have been their rooms to teach at their leisure and the students have had free admission.

All the while Harris has been paying for the building that everyone has been enjoying.

And now, after 11 years, they are asking all the students to pay a very small fee to cover all of the costs of that building, maintenance and upkeep.

 

[rhein1969]

I am pretty sure the offer was for HALF that amount or even ONE THIRD of that.

No One has been asked to pay $30 ???

A 12-month membership to the SnoWest Online Forums will cost $29.95. However, we recognize times are tough for a lot of people right now, so we’ll be doing a few things to keep the subscription affordable:

All Current SnoWest Forum Members:

·1 Year Forum Subscription: $14.95/yr, 50% off (thats just 4 cents a day)

·2 Year Forum Subscription: $12.50/yr, 58% off

·3 Year Forum Subscription: $9.99/yr, 66% off (Only 3 cents a day!)

Right there, In BOLD. You've set the value of a subscription at 30 bucks. That's what you feel the value of a subscription is. You've offered discounts for those that are willing to pay a year in advance, but for those that aren't, that's what you've set the bar at. Again, as I said before, you are asking us to be your VC's

I don't disagree with the desire to charge for access to some features, however charging subscribers of the magazine is going to far, and 5 bucks a year, none of this tiered, pay me in advance stuff for a discount is a far better idea.

You have to remember, most people visit this site during the riding season so it only holds value for that period of time.... Mark my words, you do this, and the visits and the ad revenue will plummet. The free areas will become free for alls because people will post EVERYTHING there, and the pay areas will be virtual ghost towns. KISS and KICS

 

[timber_tramp]

My $.25

Well I guess Ill through my $.25 in.

Ive been a member for 7 years.

Throughout the years Ive leanrned alot from other members on technical issues ( some home repair related) , bought and sold stuff on the Swapmeet even met and rode with some great people.
The paying advertisers have had my support as well. Ive purchased clothing and sled parts from the advertisers. I thought I was supporting the forums by buying thier products

Having a pay site for people who want a premium service is fine, but I liked the forums the way they were...and they were free.

Will I pay ; probably not.

Thanks for listening, Mike