Hey 2 mx3 what ignition stuff u gonna run?? Where do u get it? Thanks
Silber Pro running on only 1 cylinder..HELP
- Thread starter TurboMatt
- Start date
C
CANDYMAN
Well-known member
Is it possible that some of these sleds are running a bit rich on the bottom end and possibly causing them to detonate at low rpm? I know it sounds backwards, but it sounds like a few cases of det at low rpm or trail running. I would think the factory timing map would have advanced timiing at low rpm so maybe that is partially the cause. i don't know much about efi, but there has to be something causing it.
Ok guys take your pi$$ing contest some where else this thread is for silber turbos running on one cylinder.. Please if you aren't going to help with a SILBER turbo. Start another thread.. Thank you now how about so help with the Silber turbo on one cylinder
On topic, when I read someone using the bpr9eix plug I feel like I was told to run the br9eix. Any issues here. My sleds 2 hours from me so I can't check what I bought. Whats the proper plug?
SLP has the plug wires listed, I almost ordered them today.
SLP has the plug wires listed, I almost ordered them today.
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
It's a shame that these topics continue to get hijacked. Does anyone even read that stuff anymore? I'm seriously to the point where when I see a post by PRECISION E.F.I. I just skip over it. Where are the Mods to stop this sh**?
Here is a pic that I took tonight through the intake side of the motor where the reed cage sits in.(sorry if its not the best quality, all I had was my cell phone) As you can see the piston skirt is indeed broke off. For those of you who are familiar with the D8 engine failures(I am not): does this look similar to what they were seeing in the CFI 4 engines?
There is also a hole in the bottom of the case, I could only see it with one of those small telescoping mirrors & I could feel it with my finger.
This is the MAG side.
Here is a pic that I took tonight through the intake side of the motor where the reed cage sits in.(sorry if its not the best quality, all I had was my cell phone) As you can see the piston skirt is indeed broke off. For those of you who are familiar with the D8 engine failures(I am not): does this look similar to what they were seeing in the CFI 4 engines?
There is also a hole in the bottom of the case, I could only see it with one of those small telescoping mirrors & I could feel it with my finger.
This is the MAG side.
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
Reeds were intact.
Still considering my options
I was not too lean, well at least going by my wideband a/f gauge and also by looking at the plugs and the tops of the pistons. a/f was at 11.5ish at WOT, it seemed somewhat rich down low and midrange. Would being too lean cause the piston skirt to break off, yet the tops of piston and rings be ok?
Hope the damaged is less than it looks and youll be back on the snow soon.
Starting line products (slp) makes a nice wire kit that I use, its made by MSD for them. Has good quality wires and nice plug boot clamps.
http://www.slp.cc/catalog.cfm?pageID=detail&catalogID=3&catID=18&productID=156
I would also highly recomend this engine torque arm in a boosted application
http://www.slp.cc/catalog.cfm?pageID=detail&catalogID=3&catID=18&productID=1744
Here is a pic that I took tonight through the intake side of the motor where the reed cage sits in.(sorry if its not the best quality, all I had was my cell phone) As you can see the piston skirt is indeed broke off. For those of you who are familiar with the D8 engine failures(I am not): does this look similar to what they were seeing in the CFI 4 engines?
There is also a hole in the bottom of the case, I could only see it with one of those small telescoping mirrors & I could feel it with my finger.
This is the MAG side.[/QUOTE]
Matt, having done quite a few D8 motors this is actually Not where they break, all the d8's break the cylinder skirt and piston skirt off on the EXHAUST side on the motor (ie thrust side), and from your picture it looks as if the exhaust side did not break. Hard to tell until you get it all apart. There is little load on the non thrust side of the piston skirt in the area where the break is in the picture so i'm very interested as to what you find in the rest of the engine when you take it apart. look for scuffing on the intake side,and for perhaps another broken section from the exhaust side that caused the intake side to break off by flinging about in there.
I have not seen or heard of a cfi4 D8 motor breaking a intake side skirt off,but of course many on the exhaust side. Keep us posted.
There is also a hole in the bottom of the case, I could only see it with one of those small telescoping mirrors & I could feel it with my finger.
This is the MAG side.[/QUOTE]
Matt, having done quite a few D8 motors this is actually Not where they break, all the d8's break the cylinder skirt and piston skirt off on the EXHAUST side on the motor (ie thrust side), and from your picture it looks as if the exhaust side did not break. Hard to tell until you get it all apart. There is little load on the non thrust side of the piston skirt in the area where the break is in the picture so i'm very interested as to what you find in the rest of the engine when you take it apart. look for scuffing on the intake side,and for perhaps another broken section from the exhaust side that caused the intake side to break off by flinging about in there.
I have not seen or heard of a cfi4 D8 motor breaking a intake side skirt off,but of course many on the exhaust side. Keep us posted.
both are good plugs, the only difference is the brp9 is a projected tip plug and the br a retracted tip....Now it is in fact Usually the case in any boosted application to always run a retracted tip plug (br9eix) However I am running the projected tip as so far it seems to work better as to the loading up from in and out throttle riding. The projected tip will usually give a better burn pattern as it "sticks out" into the cylinder more.
That being said the reason for retracted tip plugs in boosted motors is to help sheild the initial flame kernal from being "blown out" by the boosted charge entering the cylinder and to keep the tip from running to hot.
Neither will cause any problems as there is plenty of room to the piston in these engines, try both and see what works best for you at your boost level.
Higher boost may need the br9 plug, as would long pulls at WOT this is one of those areas where you need to decide whats best for your application.
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
Has anyone seen any of the CFI 2 engines with broken skirts? I know there has been a couple threads out there where people have said they had skirts breaking off as well. I didn't have time to pull the Y pipe last night to actually check the exhaust side of the piston. Everything looked ok looking through the VES opening though(you can't see the skirt from there though).
I was having some DET issues the first 2 days of the trip. Mainly it was happening in the mid range when I was braaping on it alot(like in the trees). Never had a DET at WOT. I have my pto side airbox bolt ground down already so I knew it wasn't that. I put my OVS timing filter in and that eliminated the DET completely.Actually it seemed to make the sled run smoother altogether. Also, for whatever reason on my sled on the control box it seemed to like my GREEN mode in a lot higher setting that what others are running. I was running my green mod at 7, when I ran it here my a/f's and throttle response where were they needed to be. Running it lower than that and it was lean on the low end or light cruising speed.
7 in green mode that is high. I think I run mine at 2 and bump up when to 3.5 on the trail.But I run high elevation so that may account for some difference.
Det. took out a skirt on my 06 900 that was bad fuel I think but DET is the same regaurdless that why I ask.
The 05 were famos for broken skirts but not the 06 so I was surprised when it happened.
Det. took out a skirt on my 06 900 that was bad fuel I think but DET is the same regaurdless that why I ask.
The 05 were famos for broken skirts but not the 06 so I was surprised when it happened.
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
I was riding at 9000ft elevation.
My sled has proven to do strange things. It definately made a huge difference running the GREEN mode at 7, both in throttle response(bogs) and on the wideband gauge. I was having the whole idle issue to start with as well. That seemed to be resolved, albiet still weird.
On another note 2MX3: I checked my throttle plate opening when I had my junk apart last night. You had stated that I should be in the .0025" - .004" range at idle. Even though My idle is fine now after turning it down manually, my throttle plate opening is still at probably around .007". Strange, i'd bet it was over .020" before I turned it down(this is how it was set with my TPS adjusting tool). I wonder if there is something up with my TPS?
i have not as yet seen a cfi2 motor with a broken piston, not to say there have not been some.
On the pro I did the other day the blades were at .004, and another I measured at .0035.....so thats 3 sleds I measured and all 3 were from .0025 to .004 gotta be the factory spec for initial throttle blade adjustment.
My own sled runs 3 on the green at 5000 ft
Hate to say this but I have seen det take a piston out in the blink of a eye. It needs to be addressed and stopped the first time the light goes off, ie i'd stop in the middle of a ride and drop boost right then and there if I got a light,no exceptions ! With engines there is no guesswork,the light went off for a reason and that reason is not a good one.i've seen way to many guys here with the det light going off somewhere in the powerband and thinking its OK in the midrange or crusing or some such...NO ITS NOT OK...EVER, if the tune and fuel is correct you should NEVER see the det light,ever. The engine can blow the rods right out the bottom at half throttle from detonation just as easy as under full load, Problem is that there is no real guarentee that there is no det just because the light dosen't flash, i've used many different kinds of det detectors over the years, and yes they are OK tool for tuning but NOT 100%,remember they are just sencing a change it noise or frequency not whats happening in the cylinder alone, ie there is no way i'd ever "tune to the light and back it down some" I'd always start with 100% race gas and wean it out little by little until it was spot on. Like wise with egt's . Any engine tuning is a combination of all factors, first off plug reading, and thats a art by itself, then egt, a/f on so on down the line.
One major thing to remember here is the fact that ANY brand of hyperutectic cast piston cannot stand even the hint of det, they will develop fractures that progress and then they crack. I've seen this 100's of times in stressed motors. It was a huge problem with the keith black pistons when they first came out. And a engine that is 800cc's making 200+ HP is very very highly stressed. Now don't get me wrong they are a very good piston to use BUT in any engine that you push close to the edge its is lightyears better to run a top quality forged piston, and a super stout one at that for a boosted motor.
So the first rule of a cast piston boosted engine is run good fuel to the point of even if the motor has a lean spot there is zero sign of any detonation. Its a very easy test for everybody if you ever see the light flash, just drain your tank and throw in 5 gallons of VP C16...and if you see a det light with that in there better start pulling your motor down. Point is with the correct fuel and a a/f guage reading in OK range you should NEVER see the det sensor go off.....unless somthings way out of wack....just my thoughts on this We are not trying to tune to the brink of the engine for power, we just want the engine to have a good service life and such should never see the light, ever.(likewise you could drop the boost to 4 or so and see if ya get a light as well)
On the pro I did the other day the blades were at .004, and another I measured at .0035.....so thats 3 sleds I measured and all 3 were from .0025 to .004 gotta be the factory spec for initial throttle blade adjustment.
My own sled runs 3 on the green at 5000 ft
Hate to say this but I have seen det take a piston out in the blink of a eye. It needs to be addressed and stopped the first time the light goes off, ie i'd stop in the middle of a ride and drop boost right then and there if I got a light,no exceptions ! With engines there is no guesswork,the light went off for a reason and that reason is not a good one.i've seen way to many guys here with the det light going off somewhere in the powerband and thinking its OK in the midrange or crusing or some such...NO ITS NOT OK...EVER, if the tune and fuel is correct you should NEVER see the det light,ever. The engine can blow the rods right out the bottom at half throttle from detonation just as easy as under full load, Problem is that there is no real guarentee that there is no det just because the light dosen't flash, i've used many different kinds of det detectors over the years, and yes they are OK tool for tuning but NOT 100%,remember they are just sencing a change it noise or frequency not whats happening in the cylinder alone, ie there is no way i'd ever "tune to the light and back it down some" I'd always start with 100% race gas and wean it out little by little until it was spot on. Like wise with egt's . Any engine tuning is a combination of all factors, first off plug reading, and thats a art by itself, then egt, a/f on so on down the line.
One major thing to remember here is the fact that ANY brand of hyperutectic cast piston cannot stand even the hint of det, they will develop fractures that progress and then they crack. I've seen this 100's of times in stressed motors. It was a huge problem with the keith black pistons when they first came out. And a engine that is 800cc's making 200+ HP is very very highly stressed. Now don't get me wrong they are a very good piston to use BUT in any engine that you push close to the edge its is lightyears better to run a top quality forged piston, and a super stout one at that for a boosted motor.
So the first rule of a cast piston boosted engine is run good fuel to the point of even if the motor has a lean spot there is zero sign of any detonation. Its a very easy test for everybody if you ever see the light flash, just drain your tank and throw in 5 gallons of VP C16...and if you see a det light with that in there better start pulling your motor down. Point is with the correct fuel and a a/f guage reading in OK range you should NEVER see the det sensor go off.....unless somthings way out of wack....just my thoughts on this We are not trying to tune to the brink of the engine for power, we just want the engine to have a good service life and such should never see the light, ever.(likewise you could drop the boost to 4 or so and see if ya get a light as well)
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TPS is always a good place to look on these sleds. Did you use a new battery and test voltage of you test kit befor you made adjustment? TPS is a little tricky IMO. or at least it alwasy has been for me.
I think 2XM3 is is right on about the affects of DET. when it happend to me I looked down to see what was going on tried feathing the throttle and 400 yards later... bang! junk
yeah, the tps setting is one major pain in the a$$ on these sleds.....
I have learned the hard way in building engines for years that ANY sign of DET and you have to be like " Holy Balls shut that sucker off NOW !!!" ......I think if the light said "good GOD your cracking the holy hell out of your pistons and hittin your crank bearings with a sledgehammer" it may have a better effect.....lmao
I have learned the hard way in building engines for years that ANY sign of DET and you have to be like " Holy Balls shut that sucker off NOW !!!" ......I think if the light said "good GOD your cracking the holy hell out of your pistons and hittin your crank bearings with a sledgehammer" it may have a better effect.....lmao
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
Thanks 2MX3, very insiteful. And I agree 100%. And please don't get me wrong, I was in no way shape or form OK with riding with the DET light going off. In fact I was constantly tuning with the controller(also put the OVS timing filter on) to get it to the point where the DET light wasn't going off. And I actually succeeded in that. The last day and a half that I rode the sled the DET light never went off. I had it running really good I think, it was ripping hard at 8psi and pulling good a/f's and sounded good. Maybe the damage was already done by that point.
I think the reason people have been accustom to the DET sensor being "no big deal" is that it is at times going off on stock engines for no apparent reason.
We also have a turbo builder telling people that the DET sensor will "not allow the engine to burn down, its that sensitive". Yes, Silber said that. That kinda worries me.
Its kinda like car alarms these day. You hear one going off most people don't even look or think twice, they just assume it was falsely tripped.
I think the reason people have been accustom to the DET sensor being "no big deal" is that it is at times going off on stock engines for no apparent reason.
We also have a turbo builder telling people that the DET sensor will "not allow the engine to burn down, its that sensitive". Yes, Silber said that. That kinda worries me.
Its kinda like car alarms these day. You hear one going off most people don't even look or think twice, they just assume it was falsely tripped.
I just post my ideas, never infered anyone liked the det light...
If I was building a sled engine from scratch and it was being boosted, I would build it like all the rest of the blown stuff I've done.
Billet crankshop crank, hotrods or fallicon rods, forged custom spec pistons,dual ring,heaver wall tool steel wrist pins,helicoil case to accept larger diameter arp studs, line bore case for bigger crank bearings,larger head studs, copper oring primary head seal backed by normal ring ....ect ect ect a'la 20,000.00 in the motor before you could blink
and it could still put the rods out the bottom in a flash if ur not careful.
Fuel quality and det is the number 1 killer of high performance engines....just sucks we can only get good fuel for 12.00 a gallon ++++ anymore...
If I was building a sled engine from scratch and it was being boosted, I would build it like all the rest of the blown stuff I've done.
Billet crankshop crank, hotrods or fallicon rods, forged custom spec pistons,dual ring,heaver wall tool steel wrist pins,helicoil case to accept larger diameter arp studs, line bore case for bigger crank bearings,larger head studs, copper oring primary head seal backed by normal ring ....ect ect ect a'la 20,000.00 in the motor before you could blink
and it could still put the rods out the bottom in a flash if ur not careful.
Fuel quality and det is the number 1 killer of high performance engines....just sucks we can only get good fuel for 12.00 a gallon ++++ anymore...
