Should I upgrade my sled? Newb questions the value of a modern chassis...

[TurboSportTSi]

First off, I'm new to sledding, having just gotten into it last season. The wife & I bought sleds new enough that we'd be able to tell if we enjoy sledding yet cheap enough that if we didn't, no big deal. She has an '08 Summit Adrenaline (Rev) and I got an '07 M8 162 with some mods (can, running boards, seat) - all paid for. Fast forward one year later and we're looking to get her a new sled due to hers being a little rough and not really worth messing with. While shopping, I found her a great sled and also happened to find another in the same area that I'm interested in. I'm conflicted over whether I should upgrade or not.

I spent some time & cash over the summer refurbing my M8 (new DD, new primary & belt, rebuilt secondary, rebuilt Floats, new suspension bushings, etc.) and it's much improved over last season and I do really like the sled as it's been reliable and not at all temperamental, but I want to get into technical tree riding and I just can't seem to get the thing on edge very well...or hold it there. Obviously being new, there is a significant learning curve and we're typically riding with the kid, so I haven't been able to get too far off the trail, but I can't help but wonder if upgrading the sled will pay dividends in shortening the learning curve. Am I at a significant disadvantage with older iron? I was planning to upgrade next season, but an opportunity has presented itself...

The sled I'm looking at is a '17 RMK Pro (Axys) 174 with an aftermarket turbo. It's $8k and has <2k miles on it. It's appealing because the chassis is allegedly miles above the M and I like the idea of being able to have traction at all times, being able to pick my way through the trees and spend more time riding vs digging out. The turbo tempers any worries I had about the track having too much traction when a little spinning is needed and the couple hours I've spent researching so far alleviates any concern over the sled feeling too long compared to my 162. I'm on the fence because it's a significant expense and I don't have a good read on the benefit.

For reference, I'm 6'1", 215lb. Probably 240-250 suited up. I live in central Montana, riding the local mtns on the regular, but 4-5 hrs from West/IP, which is the ultimate goal - hope to go at least once per month after I stop sucking enough to make the trip worth it! Local snow conditions should be similar to West & IP, but less of it.

My goal for next season was to be blown away by how better a modern chassis is...I'm sort of drawn to AC and secondly to Poo. The goal was an M8000 Alpha. The "enginerd" in me loves the idea of the Alpha skid and the overall robust nature of ACs, while the former racecar driver part of me likes the cutting edge, technical nature of the Polaris mountain sleds. Ski-Don't is all but out at this point - sorry fans. Would a '17 turbo 174 be a game changer or should I stick with my M8 while I learn? What would you do if you were me? Any strong cases for or against?

 

[simnil]

From a philosophical point of view. A second hand 2s Turbo sounds like less riding and more wrenching to me, I would be too much of a chicken to get one for that reason alone. And cars, sleds, bikes or whatever, any serious performance upgrade usually craves equal level of wrenching skills from the owner or else it usually transforms into a shop ornament in a short while. How good of a mechanic are you?

If this is only your second season, unless you have a lot more talent than the average guy, I'd say you haven't surpassed the M8 yet.

But in case the sled changing itch wont stop, Isn't it smarter to get a nice stock sled for the same amount of money instead of the "Turbo time bomb"

 

[summ8rmk]

The ole Mseries is the OG tree slayer.
If u can't side hill the M, ut not gonna like the 17 Pro.
I own a Khaos and like it, that said, i would 100% take an 09-2011 Mseries over 2011-2018 Pro any day. Plus, u can trail ride an Mseries all day long. The older pros are overachievers in the over heating dept.

A 174 is more work in the trees. They do have their place, though, and that is deep dry powder and looooooong steep hills.
Turbos will run hotter, and unless u master their powerband, are a real pain in the ass in the tree's.

U do happen to have the worst Mseries u can get. Rear suspension sucks, track sucks, rear tunnel sucks, diamond drive reverse sucks..... Sorry.
If u can upgrade to a powerclaw track and 09-11 rear skid, that would help the performance of the sled greatly.

Honestly, it is easier to sell it and start with a newer sled.

If ur having trouble sidehilling an Mseries, an Alpha will have u pointing in the wrong direction real quick, real often.

I have an Alpha also, and it's one of the worst trail sleds u can get due to the track overheating and coming apart, breaking rods, and melting the hyfax. Handling is fine. Just be ready to buy a new track more often.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[TurboSportTSi]

From a philosophical point of view. A second hand 2s Turbo sounds like less riding and more wrenching to me, I would be too much of a chicken to get one for that reason alone. And cars, sleds, bikes or whatever, any serious performance upgrade usually craves equal level of wrenching skills from the owner or else it usually transforms into a shop ornament in a short while. How good of a mechanic are you?

If this is only your second season, unless you have a lot more talent than the average guy, I'd say you haven't surpassed the M8 yet.

But in case the sled changing itch wont stop, Isn't it smarter to get a nice stock sled for the same amount of money instead of the "Turbo time bomb"

That brings up a great point - reliability. I haven't seen any big red flags on the turbo Pros, but I could've missed it since I was primarily searching for issues pertaining to track size. I can wrench but with such a time-limited hobby, I'd prefer to be riding!

Definitely haven't surpassed the M8, just didn't know if the older chassis was going to translate well when the time comes for a newer sled.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

The ole Mseries is the OG tree slayer.
If u can't side hill the M, ut not gonna like the 17 Pro.
I own a Khaos and like it, that said, i would 100% take an 09-2011 Mseries over 2011-2018 Pro any day. Plus, u can trail ride an Mseries all day long. The older pros are overachievers in the over heating dept.

A 174 is more work in the trees. They do have their place, though, and that is deep dry powder and looooooong steep hills.
Turbos will run hotter, and unless u master their powerband, are a real pain in the ass in the tree's.

U do happen to have the worst Mseries u can get. Rear suspension sucks, track sucks, rear tunnel sucks, diamond drive reverse sucks..... Sorry.
If u can upgrade to a powerclaw track and 09-11 rear skid, that would help the performance of the sled greatly.

Honestly, it is easier to sell it and start with a newer sled.

If ur having trouble sidehilling an Mseries, an Alpha will have u pointing in the wrong direction real quick, real often.

I have an Alpha also, and it's one of the worst trail sleds u can get due to the track overheating and coming apart, breaking rods, and melting the hyfax. Handling is fine. Just be ready to buy a new track more often.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

I guess what I mean by having trouble sidehilling is that it feels like the sled has sort of a linear pull to it and it has to get really far over before it balances on edge. It sounds to me like newer chassis will hit that point faster in the arc, which sounds easier to me. I equate the M to leaning a heavy motorcycle (which I happen to have laid down at a standstill before...don't ask...), where it hits the point of balance and you go past it and the sled is just too dang heavy to pull back up. Exhausting!

Not too worried about trail riding manner, as I plan to only trail ride to get to a good riding area, but definitely noteworthy.

Really appreciate the responses, guys! Sounding so far like the M is still a good platform to learn on and won't be time wasted, as compared to a newer chassis.

 

[Ken65]

First off, I'm new to sledding, having just gotten into it last season. The wife & I bought sleds new enough that we'd be able to tell if we enjoy sledding yet cheap enough that if we didn't, no big deal. She has an '08 Summit Adrenaline (Rev) and I got an '07 M8 162 with some mods (can, running boards, seat) - all paid for. Fast forward one year later and we're looking to get her a new sled due to hers being a little rough and not really worth messing with. While shopping, I found her a great sled and also happened to find another in the same area that I'm interested in. I'm conflicted over whether I should upgrade or not.

I spent some time & cash over the summer refurbing my M8 (new DD, new primary & belt, rebuilt secondary, rebuilt Floats, new suspension bushings, etc.) and it's much improved over last season and I do really like the sled as it's been reliable and not at all temperamental, but I want to get into technical tree riding and I just can't seem to get the thing on edge very well...or hold it there. Obviously being new, there is a significant learning curve and we're typically riding with the kid, so I haven't been able to get too far off the trail, but I can't help but wonder if upgrading the sled will pay dividends in shortening the learning curve. Am I at a significant disadvantage with older iron? I was planning to upgrade next season, but an opportunity has presented itself...

The sled I'm looking at is a '17 RMK Pro (Axys) 174 with an aftermarket turbo. It's $8k and has <2k miles on it. It's appealing because the chassis is allegedly miles above the M and I like the idea of being able to have traction at all times, being able to pick my way through the trees and spend more time riding vs digging out. The turbo tempers any worries I had about the track having too much traction when a little spinning is needed and the couple hours I've spent researching so far alleviates any concern over the sled feeling too long compared to my 162. I'm on the fence because it's a significant expense and I don't have a good read on the benefit.

For reference, I'm 6'1", 215lb. Probably 240-250 suited up. I live in central Montana, riding the local mtns on the regular, but 4-5 hrs from West/IP, which is the ultimate goal - hope to go at least once per month after I stop sucking enough to make the trip worth it! Local snow conditions should be similar to West & IP, but less of it.

My goal for next season was to be blown away by how better a modern chassis is...I'm sort of drawn to AC and secondly to Poo. The goal was an M8000 Alpha. The "enginerd" in me loves the idea of the Alpha skid and the overall robust nature of ACs, while the former racecar driver part of me likes the cutting edge, technical nature of the Polaris mountain sleds. Ski-Don't is all but out at this point - sorry fans. Would a '17 turbo 174 be a game changer or should I stick with my M8 while I learn? What would you do if you were me? Any strong cases for or against?

Don't buy a turbo unless it came from the factory. End of story.

 

[Sage Crusher]

Yes I had the old m's in a M7 and a M8- Side hilling is not a problem with them- it's always a learning curve, I did find my 14 pro pulled over easier due in part to the ridged chassis- but your power in the pro in stock form will take a back seat to a M8. The M8 is heaver. I would learn more, and get out more consistently on the M8 and it will come to you- but just tying it once in-awhile with the family- a guys just don't get enough practice. A fellow sledder that has mastered ( or better) than you are currently can give pointers on foot placement and correct steering position to assist in keeping it on it's side.
A turbo on the 12-14 pro's has it's shortcomings- and really, you want a fun sled to ride instead of having to throttle around any type of turbo hesitations especially in the trees.

I heartily disagree with the Alpha not being trail friendly- When you keep the speed down under 45 the tracks do and will last -and won't overheat- They have some of the best scratcher placement and keep things cool
The track is a brute in the deep snow and really out preforms a lot of tracks available today- it just flat out works -just not a high speed track..

A Alpha 600 you may look at also- it holds it's own in the trees, the wife may like it and you can practice on it, and then trade up for a sled for yourself.

 

[madmax]

I still keep my 09’ M8 around. It’s a super fun and very capable sled. That being said, without putting more money into your current M8, a newer axys or alpha would be a huge upgrade over an m-series. The m-series only came in a 2.25 lug track and the wide ski stance and how low it sits works against you. I’d definitely stay away from any aftermarket turbo sled at this point in your sledding experience. I’ve owned pretty much every new sled to come out in the last 10 years. Probably one of my top favorites is the 18’ mountain cat. You can find one of those for pretty decent price. However, Since you are a newer rider you my fit better on an alpha.

 

[koolaid]

One of my favorite sleds was my 09 M8 sno-pro. When you mentioned you couldn't sidehill with your M8, my vote was for you to keep it and improve your riding skills. That sled is plenty capable and you'll need a season or two before you outgrow it.

Plus, don't buy mod sleds unless you like to wrench. I like to put gas and oil and go.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Yes I had the old m's in a M7 and a M8- Side hilling is not a problem with them- it's always a learning curve, I did find my 14 pro pulled over easier due in part to the ridged chassis- but your power in the pro in stock form will take a back seat to a M8. The M8 is heaver. I would learn more, and get out more consistently on the M8 and it will come to you- but just tying it once in-awhile with the family- a guys just don't get enough practice. A fellow sledder that has mastered ( or better) than you are currently can give pointers on foot placement and correct steering position to assist in keeping it on it's side.
A turbo on the 12-14 pro's has it's shortcomings- and really, you want a fun sled to ride instead of having to throttle around any type of turbo hesitations especially in the trees.

We go out pretty much every weekend but there's only so long and far we can go with a 7 year old, so it's not like I get a full day of practice. Getting her on her own sled has been great to free me up to go mess around nearby!

I do need to find an experienced person to ride with for longer stints. Being able to get on different terrain and in varied snow conditions while having someone there for feedback would probably help more than anything.

One of my favorite sleds was my 09 M8 sno-pro. When you mentioned you couldn't sidehill with your M8, my vote was for you to keep it and improve your riding skills. That sled is plenty capable and you'll need a season or two before you outgrow it.

Plus, don't buy mod sleds unless you like to wrench. I like to put gas and oil and go.

Thanks!

I still keep my 09’ M8 around. It’s a super fun and very capable sled. That being said, without putting more money into your current M8, a newer axys or alpha would be a huge upgrade over an m-series. The m-series only came in a 2.25 lug track and the wide ski stance and how low it sits works against you. I’d definitely stay away from any aftermarket turbo sled at this point in your sledding experience. I’ve owned pretty much every new sled to come out in the last 10 years. Probably one of my top favorites is the 18’ mountain cat. You can find one of those for pretty decent price. However, Since you are a newer rider you my fit better on an alpha.

Not modding the M is difficult...the goal is to not throw any more money than necessary at it, knowing I plan to upgrade when the time is right. What newbie doesn't want a more narrow front end?

I definitely feel the low center of gravity and wide stance. I can't see this thing ever being able to park mid-sidehill like I see guys doing with newer sleds...it just wants to be on two skis or one ski and a handlebar end. . Maybe learning this way will actually make me a better rider on a newer sled. Might need to spend some time tweaking the suspension as well.

Aftermarket turbo advice has been noted!



I'm very surprised that no one thinks upgrading would be worth it! Totally get avoiding aftermarket turbos, but with all the hoopla over improvements to modern chassis, I sort of figured they'd make it easier for a new sledder to get up to speed on. If the M isn't holding me back from developing skills, then maybe I should just ignore the sled envy for another year or two...and hit the gym more! Lol

 

[Blk88GT]

Yes, the new sleds are worth it. I would never buy a used non-stock turbo sled. I came off an 05 M7 162 in favor of an XM in 2014 and never looked back. I can't imagine riding one of those machines all day.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Bozeman dealer has new 22 alphas for 10-11k? Sell your m for a few and buy borrow a little maybe. I know guys say never borrow but if you put down what you where comfortable with and where comfortable with 150 a month till you earned enough to pay it off then it’ll be worth it. Iam new too and iam pretty terrible but I first bought a older sled a 16 m and after a season up graded to a 21 hardcore. I’d say it’s easier. Not magic like I can just magically ride but it’s easier. If I had to do it all over again I’d buy brand new the first time . Sorry to say I’d probably buy a different brand but hopefully the new cat stuff may change my mind. If I where you I’d go on a long weekend Holliday to west or even here and rent a couple different sleds and just see. It’s stupid exspensive but so is buying the wrong sled. I think I’ve easily kinda wasted 3-4 thousand. Buy once cry once is true sometimes z now a guy can get a t ally good low mile machine for a decent price I think if cash is more your style. So many 21-22 machines now that guys snowchecks are coming in lol. Iam shopping again myself and I can say the options are way better now than they where when I did last. I paid 11.5 for a 21 now there’s a 22 for 10k . I’d really like a 23 doo lol! Come down and ride mine too if ya like. Iam not a good rider but I can go a little in the trees and off trail . I just get stuck alot but I ain’t scared just bad at it lol. We go up Taylor fork or bridgers every weekend.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Bozeman dealer has new 22 alphas for 10-11k? Sell your m for a few and buy borrow a little maybe. I know guys say never borrow but if you put down what you where comfortable with and where comfortable with 150 a month till you earned enough to pay it off then it’ll be worth it. Iam new too and iam pretty terrible but I first bought a older sled a 16 m and after a season up graded to a 21 hardcore. I’d say it’s easier. Not magic like I can just magically ride but it’s easier. If I had to do it all over again I’d buy brand new the first time . Sorry to say I’d probably buy a different brand but hopefully the new cat stuff may change my mind. If I where you I’d go on a long weekend Holliday to west or even here and rent a couple different sleds and just see. It’s stupid exspensive but so is buying the wrong sled. I think I’ve easily kinda wasted 3-4 thousand. Buy once cry once is true sometimes z now a guy can get a t ally good low mile machine for a decent price I think if cash is more your style. So many 21-22 machines now that guys snowchecks are coming in lol. Iam shopping again myself and I can say the options are way better now than they where when I did last. I paid 11.5 for a 21 now there’s a 22 for 10k . I’d really like a 23 doo lol! Come down and ride mine too if ya like. Iam not a good rider but I can go a little in the trees and off trail . I just get stuck alot but I ain’t scared just bad at it lol. We go up Taylor fork or bridgers every weekend.

I've read some of your posts and can relate to a lot of it! Trying a bunch of stuff and getting thrown off and flipped over all the time, which brings my daughter endless joy, pretty much describes my experience as well.

You bring up a good point on renting. We've talked about it and when the time comes to choose a sled, I probably will. At this stage, I just wasn't sure if what I've got is considered 'good' to learn on.

Thanks for the heads-up on the 21-22 sleds. I haven't been able to find anything available at Billings or Great Falls area dealers... Heck, we're going to drive to Coeur d'Alene this Friday to get a newer sled for my wife! 7.5 hrs each way...

 

[Pinchecharlie]

Borrow mine anytime you like ! Iam honestly thinking the better the sled the better the chances (except for power lol) last year I did my aire motorized avalanche course and it was even ski soo guys and polaris guys. I was the newest rider and they all wanted to help me get better. The new ski doos where really easy to get in edge. Easier and more forgiving. The polaris I rode was a khaos and I was intimidated by it but it fell over east too. Of course one ripper kid took my hardcore and did all kinds of stunts so…I do think these newer sleds are peace of mind too. Iam jinking myself but I move done nothing but add gas and oil and they just start and work and that’s nice. I even got two years of cat care warranty on mine for a few hundred bucks. Seriously if you ever come down on mr and I’ll let you ride it for a day. Rexburg Motorsports has good deals too. Saw a 22 sp 165 for 12and a little. Exspensive I know but iam thinking I’ll get one more and just ride it for a few years. Lol

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Appreciate the offer! I might just take you up on it some day. You're only about 3 hrs from me. I've only ridden Kings Hill so far, but hope to get to IP at some point this winter.

Just adding gas and oil is why it's so hard to want to get rid of my M8. It has just enough mods to make it interesting and though had to spend a little cash to get it up to par over the summer due to lack of previous owner's maintenance...and other than the DD nearly grenading (which I hope is a one time deal)...it's by far the easiest and most predictable of our sleds to start & drive and hasn't given me any mystery issues so far. It's way easier to steer and the throttle is way lighter than my wife's Rev that has the same skis. Sure, it looks like a squashed bullfrog and has a ridiculous wrap on the hood, but it's pretty fun to drive. Just wish it were easier to pull over and stay there.

The comment earlier about the track only being a 2.25" is legit. It does NOT want to pop up out of trenches and doesn't want to stand up on end either. Can't wait for a fancy, newer sled but I will try to get as much out of this one as I can until then. Just have to resist the urge to put a 36" front end on it...though I am a little intrigued about the 09-11 skid & upgraded track. ?



Thanks to everyone for weighing in...the 174 (non-factory) turbo idea is dead. I appreciate y'all keeping me from a probably poor decision. Going to replace the wife's '08 Summit 600 (w/ jacked up nun) with a clean '14 RMK Pro 800 and run my '07 M8 for the rest of the season, at a minimum.

 

[summ8rmk]

I think a 36in front would be fun on that sled.
A powerclaw (2.6 best choice) track will turn that sled into a great wheelie machine.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

 

[hansenmac]

if you can find a stock axys or a 14 or newer arctic cat they will be alot easier to ride than an M series. the M was a good sled but lower wider and heavier than the newer stuff. 18 or newer cat would be even better.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

That's basically been the plan. Get an Ascender chassis w/ Alpha skid and run that for a few years until the 800+cc Catalyst has been out for a year or two.

With the wife about to get a newer sled, it would be financially prudent to wait until next season if a newer sled is not going to be a major advancement in skill development. I just got excited with the '17 Poo 174 turbo at the same dealer for what appeared to be a fair price. Admittedly, it would've been cool to trade both sleds at the same time and come home with 2 newer ones.

It will be interesting to try the Pro Ride chassis this weekend and see how it compares. I know it's only 1 gen newer but it'll be the newest sled I've ridden by far.

 

[simnil]

Don't buy a turbo unless it came from the factory. End of story.

I wouldn't get an out of warranty factory turbo either!!! Short blocks aren't cheap!

 

[Solarguy]

I guess what I mean by having trouble sidehilling is that it feels like the sled has sort of a linear pull to it and it has to get really far over before it balances on edge. It sounds to me like newer chassis will hit that point faster in the arc, which sounds easier to me. I equate the M to leaning a heavy motorcycle (which I happen to have laid down at a standstill before...don't ask...), where it hits the point of balance and you go past it and the sled is just too dang heavy to pull back up. Exhausting!

Not too worried about trail riding manner, as I plan to only trail ride to get to a good riding area, but definitely noteworthy.

Really appreciate the responses, guys! Sounding so far like the M is still a good platform to learn on and won't be time wasted, as compared to a newer chassis.

Don’t buy a turbo unless you are an accomplished mountain rider as it will cause you problems….out of control issues. Also, 163” is probably your sweet spot for powder riding.