Rode out of Avalanche (Moved from Mountain/Powder)

[soul!]

thanks i learned alot

ive been mountain riding for only three years and now feel im getting to the ability level and heights where it is dangerous
having said that i have trusted the experienced people i ride with to tell me what is safe
i have avalanche books, forecasts and still waiting for the course which is jan 30 th
i have all the gear including an airpack and ava lung
but seeing these two videos on the site showed me something new and will have a lasting impression
i have seen people climb stuff like that all day long all winter long for the last two years .
From reading so many survivor stories the people claim over and over again that they have rode the hill so many times and it never slid

for eg two years ago the ski hill big white had a weird avy slide that killed a skier in bounds the people that run the joint were shocked that it slid and this is where my son and i skied several times over the christmas break a few weeks earlier
so in the end you have to assume that any of these hills have the ability to slide and you should be prepared that everytime you climb it may slide

i also think the forcasting is vague because a mountain range can have many micro weather systems that can affect it differently then the next range a few miles down the road

im also nervous because if the guy in the video had an abs pack and took a hand off the bar to pull it he may have lost control

perhaps these devices need a better trigger like a mouthpeice trigger so you can keep hands on bars

the guy in the second vid said once he was off his sled he could not move his hands at all

anyway thanks so much for posting the video it showed me more then anything else i have seen and it should be part of any course!

ps the laughing is adrenaline and disbelief after you avoided disaster, i have done this myself

 

[ickman]

all conversation on this subject raises awareness. that's why it's called a forum!

I try to learn something new every day... then I struggle to remember it!!

Keep talking.

Your exactly right, so maybe people should hold back a little at first instead of talking all this sh!@t about this guy or not be so harsh until they know forsure exactly what happened.

I appreciate the talk and all the awareness I am learning from this, and that is the very reason I joined.

Thanks

 

[sevenmacs]

I have read everyones comments so far. I have over 40 yrs of continous snowmobile experience, 35 in the N/W Wyo area. I have operated a snowmobile tour business teaching thousands of people to operate a snowmobile for 18 yrs. I have made two instructional snowmobile riding programs for TV. I have served as an expert witness in two snowmobile accident court cases one involving 2 deaths. For 10 yr period I averaged 7000 mi a yr on a snowmobile. I owned and operated a snowmobile dealership for 16 yrs. I have personnally been involed in 3 avalanches in the 35 yrs of riding in the mountains. I have had a close friend die in a avalanche.

With all that being said, I posted this thread to inform and make aware of the potential risk we all take when we go into the mountains. We did have survival gear with us. I have never observed a significant slide on that hill face in 20 yrs of riding it. That particular mountain face area is over a mi long and I didn't see any slides along the whole face and I saw plenty of s/m climbing tracks on the hill faces on way up to that spot. I knew that the avalanche forcast for this area that day was considerable and I made a bad choice in hind site but most of the time we ride in Jan and part of Feb the forcast is moderate to considerable.
I thought about editing out the comments and talk in the video, It was adrenaline and relief talking and nothing else. My wife (she was the buddy on the other s/m I was waiting for before I started my climb) and I take s/m riding safety very seriously. I didn't have to post this and I know I will take criticism from some of you but it needed to be posted. Maybe this will save somebodys life.

Thanks for posting video some people do appreciate it and see its value, others like to armchair, but we've all riden a hill just like this one in one state or another.

How about posting your thoughts as you were riding it out or was it too fast to think, why you went down vs. out the side, etc.. But maybe not posting your thoughts is a good idea, too many idiots get it the way of heathly discussions we can learn from, THANKS AGAIN!!

 

[BackCountryBob]

Thanks again for the videos---a definate eye opener

Colorado was mentioned, can you share the exact location?

I make daily checks of avy conditions with CAIC and the warnings were "considerable" for most of last week. It is extremly important to refer to the Avy Rose at the bottom of the page in which avy slope aspects with warnings are superimposed on the various locations.

Unfortunately, familarity sometime breeds contempt so there is no proof that past performance will guarantee future results.

I'd like to see this video stuck to this 4M right next to "A dozen more turns"

BCB

 

[dgoetz]

How about posting your thoughts as you were riding it out or was it too fast to think, why you went down vs. out the side, etc.. But maybe not posting your thoughts is a good idea, too many idiots get it the way of heathly discussions we can learn from, THANKS AGAIN!![/QUOTE]

The fracture line was actually 20' above me and I didn't know what was going on behind me and didn't have the time to look. Before I went up I looked the hill over and decided to come down at an angle to my right (hills left) out of the full fall line. I only went fast enough to keep control and not sink into the snow and give me time to find my line. I did go to the right to drive out at the side of the slide but it is like swimming across a fast running river, you work with the current and pick at spot farther down. Don't try and go strait across which could upset the s/m and maybe flip it over. If you look at the very end of the desent to the left you see the slide ahead of me. If I would of come strait down or to the left i would of hit a wall of 10'-15'. I didn't want to wait the wave out because of not knowing what was behind me.

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[Wheel House Motorsports]

thanks for the video and the responses, without the response the video did nothing but make you look sort of an AZZhat, BUT, your response made a really good point and proved to many that this year is something out of the ordinary and is nothing to mess with.

as far as riding it out i dont think it could have been done any better.

on the note of compacency, even if we dont think of it, it still happens, i know i pounded some hills that are probably a little unsafe due to the level of the conditions right now. these hills are pretty gentle and nothing even close to them slides, but that isnt enough. we grow used to what slides and what doesnt, but i think this season wipes the slate clean as far as what will and wont slide and how ever much we dont want to admit this, it still plays a part in our descisions. the edges of our trail have been sliding for a while now!!

i rode a new area today and i think it is one of the better things to do right now, it allows you to be rather concerned with the conditions and not look around and say what will and wont happen due to previous knowledge.

our avy danger is currently moderate, most years moderate means play on pretty much anything where we ride, just a few sketchy chutes that are no good. this year moderate means you arent likely to set one off, but if you do its going to the ground and its gonna be HUGE.

as far as forcasting, yeah, its VERY general, today the place we rode was bare and patch snow all up a hillside, on the other side of the hill where it got steeper, there was about 6 feet of windloaded snow on some BAD layers in it, this is 100 feet away and not much steeper, but the windloaded hill looked so good all covered and was rather inviting, needless to say i played in the thin patchy snow. riding in crappy snow is better then enjoying for a while and dying.

 

[sevenmacs]

How about posting your thoughts as you were riding it out or was it too fast to think, why you went down vs. out the side, etc.. But maybe not posting your thoughts is a good idea, too many idiots get it the way of heathly discussions we can learn from, THANKS AGAIN!!

The fracture line was actually 20' above me and I didn't know what was going on behind me and didn't have the time to look. Before I went up I looked the hill over and decided to come down at an angle to my right (hills left) out of the full fall line. I only went fast enough to keep control and not sink into the snow and give me time to find my line. I did go to the right to drive out at the side of the slide but it is like swimming across a fast running river, you work with the current and pick at spot farther down. Don't try and go strait across which could upset the s/m and maybe flip it over. If you look at the very end of the desent to the left you see the slide ahead of me. If I would of come strait down or to the left i would of hit a wall of 10'-15'. I didn't want to wait the wave out because of not knowing what was behind me.

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This is awesome information, can't be gained any other way other than from those who have been there, Avy awareness combined with options provided by those who have survived can help if it happens to you and can save many lives. Does it make you take chances knowing that you can ride out, NO, but you should aways be educated & prepared for the worst. Many Thanks Again

 

[snoman159]

Some green to you dgoetz. I'm glad you and everyone involved made it out OK. This is a great lesson to everyone, whether or not a mistake was made. I'll second pinning this one to the top!

 

[Weekday Warrior]

I sure enjoyed seeing what that wave looks like as you come down on top of it then over it, and how your sled still stays on top of the moving slab. I think I would have pinned it too fast I think, my mindset would have been in panic mode thinking I gotta outrun it or maybe die. Now if I ever find myself in a slide like that I'll think about that..make sure I don't hit the wave too hard and loose it. Maybe I can even use the slab to angle in a different direction like you did.

I'm saddened you got so crucified on here, SW members should be hugging you not hanging you. We know that mother nature taught you more than the all the harshest words a 4m could ever dish out.

 

[snowmobiler]

I sure enjoyed seeing what that wave looks like as you come down on top of it then over it, and how your sled still stays on top of the moving slab. I think I would have pinned it too fast I think, my mindset would have been in panic mode thinking I gotta outrun it or maybe die. Now if I ever find myself in a slide like that I'll think about that..make sure I don't hit the wave too hard and loose it. Maybe I can even use the slab to angle in a different direction like you did.

I'm saddened you got so crucified on here, SW members should be hugging you not hanging you. We know that mother nature taught you more than the all the harshest words a 4m could ever dish out.

same here.i learnt sumpthing watching that video.just dont do it again

 

[BottomFeeder m7.]

.............you are very lucky.

 

[DenverR1]

Thank you so much for the post. I've learned a lot from it. I'm so amazed that we have so many perfect people in Snowest. I had no idea.

In the video it's hard to tell, how high do you think the wall was when you hit it on the way down? I could tell you jumped pretty good. How high do you think it was?

Thanks again to you and your wife for exposing yourselves in a way. It's too bad people have to call you names when they state their opinions. I'd ride with either of you any day!

 

[rockymking]

Good reps for ya dgoetz ... watching that was very informative. Also, props for having the sand to post it and the explaination of the circumstances. Disregard the sanctimonious "armchairs" ... glad you lived to tell.

 

[highlife]

Excellent vid and I am glad things worked out as they did, that is obvious. I was in a similiar avy and usually when you see the "wave" form in front of you, and you try to bust through it, you get thrown from your sled. If that had happened ... you know the potential that is for sure.

When I hit the "wave" the sled instantly and violently flipped straight on its tail and in doing so, the handlebars smaked me right in the forehead which made me see stars even with my helmet on and then knocked me off my sled. I was swimming and luckily ended up half buried from the waist down. I could not get out myself, the snow was too hard to dig with my hands, my son had to dig me out.

I am addicted to the sport and have lots of training and am safety conscious as well but things can always go badly even for the most prepared.

What have I learned .... prior to each run, EVALUATE the slope and an escape route. After looking at your vid, you can predict that your route was a poor choice for many reasons. It was prime to break off. I am not judging you as I have made the same bad route choices. Its really tough to stop and think prior to each run but to be safe for future rides it must be done.

My question for all of us is this ... what is your "trigger" to help you evaluate your slope prior to heading up the hill that beckons you to carve up its face?

 

[Idaho Slim]

First - My best wishs that you are alive and safe and that your wife can come on this forum and defend you rather than grieve for your death.
Both of you are taking this keyboard beating very well, continue to take it and be thankfull you are able to learn from it.

Second - I know that hill extremely well (See my Pic) I call it my "Death Hill". I have been stuck on it twice, the last time in 20012002 (see pic), thats me in the middle, I will never hit that slope again. Even tho you have never seen it slide in your numerous times there, I have seen it slide, and the after affects of slides on it MULTIPLE times. It is at the end of a 2mile valley that does nothing but wind load this point before it drops down into another dream valley of hills and mountains.

This is what I consider my favorite riding area of all, and I have no problem telling you its exact location in hopes that people riding there know it has an extreme avalanche danger as does everywhere in the West. It is out of the Smiths Fork area south of Afton, at a local place we call the "Terraces". It is the most avy prone perfect setup I know of for this to happen. It gets the wind and snow loaded from the complete valley.

And years ago I made the mistakes you made even tho I am very experienced and know how to read the snow and conditions. When I was stuck on it, I literally threw up, since while digging out I could hear under me "whump, whump" as the hill was getting ready to claim me. This one instance is what changed my hill banging exploits forever. I also get the biggest rush out of highmarking the big stuff but I now go frantic when I look at a hill.

The only advice I can give to everyone is:
YES, it can happen to you, ANYWHERE, educate yourself, cut snow holes to check, and insist your riding partners are as prepared as you, equipment and knowledge wise.

My final piece of advice is, learn how to say: "Nope I will pass on that hill."

God bless you for your courage to post this video and take the onslaught you are getting, continue to take it and answer these comments without debate nor defense, you could be cold, buried and dead.

My sincere regards, SLIM.

 

[SSWIM]

Thanks again for the videos---a definate eye opener

Colorado was mentioned, can you share the exact location?

I make daily checks of avy conditions with CAIC and the warnings were "considerable" for most of last week. It is extremly important to refer to the Avy Rose at the bottom of the page in which avy slope aspects with warnings are superimposed on the various locations.

Unfortunately, familarity sometime breeds contempt so there is no proof that past performance will guarantee future results.

I'd like to see this video stuck to this 4M right next to "A dozen more turns"

BCB

The Grand Mesa and San Juans are "green".

Sam

 

[JEEPER]

I too thank you for posting this video. When I watch it I knew exactly where it was. Slim and I grew up riding there. I moved away but go there every year to ride with him. I’ll be there if a few weeks. I took that picture of slim stuck back in 02, one thing about that picture is we were a fairly large group ~15 people. EVERYONE knew NOT to help slim. It took him 30 mins to get himself unstuck. We were playing by the rules when riding mountainous terrain. One at a time, beacons, probes, ect. We had radios and could talk to him and I remember his tone of voice that day while he was stuck. He was worried. We all waited out of the path and kept an eye on him until he got down. After he got down, we took a more detailed look at that hill and we realized that being at the end of the valley and the fact that hill curls out away from the rest of the slope it catches all the wind that blows through the valley. we realized it’s a poor spot to climb. We quickly moved away from that hill after that, there are soo many nice hill climbs in that area, we don’t hit that spot anymore.

It’s been a sucky year for snow and I was really looking forward to finally banging some hills in a couple weeks @ smith’s fork. I was hoping it was stable over there. It looks like that isn’t the case. It’s raised my awareness of an area I know very well, and if it turns out that the danger of the whole area is too great, we’ll will be riding the lower terraces and the meadows of elk valley. Thanks for posting the video, I will certainly remember it while I’m @ smith’s fork this year.

BTW, don’t let the “perfect” people that think they are elitists on here bother you, we all love this sport, we all love to get out and RIDE. You can ALWAYS find a reason NOT to do something. It looks like you handled the situation very well. Good luck.

this picture in 2000 was us lined up hitting that hill.[out of the picture]

 

[RYDPWDR]

Thank you so much for the post. I've learned a lot from it. I'm so amazed that we have so many perfect people in Snowest. I had no idea.

In the video it's hard to tell, how high do you think the wall was when you hit it on the way down? I could tell you jumped pretty good. How high do you think it was?

Thanks again to you and your wife for exposing yourselves in a way. It's too bad people have to call you names when they state their opinions. I'd ride with either of you any day!

It's hard to believe how much chit this guy and his wife have recieved for posting this, his wife started another thread and is getting the same treatment. The guy laughs at the bottom of the hill and get's chit for it, I bet all of us would have laughed, it's just a reaction when something happens that scares the heck out of ya...you can clearly tell he wasn't laughing cause he thought it was funny. Makes me wonder if it would have been a "popular snowest poster" that this happened to and they posted the same thing how much others would have crucified him? I'm willing to bet not much, it would have been more like "how lucky you were" and "great job of riding it out". Some of the arrogant comments made are unbelievable even for this sight.

 

[ccpowder]

One thing that people may not know, when coming down in an avalanche, it is like quicksand. Depending on the speed, it will either roll you under or you will slowly sink. The best thing to remember if you can is to keep the sled pointed down. Get sideways and you will like get rolled under.

 

[Coxy]

Idaho Slim, awesome post buddy! Sounds scarey as hell, theres no doubt about that. The angle of the picture you offered, is way better. Actually shows how steep and dangerous it looks from another perspective. Again, i hope that at least for this year, guys lose the attitude that "pff, i've never seen it slide in my day", its getting too many people into trouble.