I appreciate your years of experience, and your ability to handle the situation with a level head, and am certainly glad noone lost their lives that day. But this seems to be the part that lands way too many people in a bad situation. Im willing to bet that most of the people who have died this season were riding area's they knew, area's that are "home" to them, area's that they have never seen slide. I agree that there is risks everytime you head into the back country, but maybe a little more thought on weighing risk, vs your life is in order. Thanks for posting the video, thats as close as i every wanna be to seeing one up close!
Rode out of Avalanche (Moved from Mountain/Powder)
- Thread starter dgoetz
- Start date
I applaud your decision to post, its makes me think of what to and not to do, in that cercumstance, i've taken chances as a lot of us has and i would not like to see anyone hurt because of my actions,not condemming anyone just trying to point out to think and be careful, nothings 100% safe
Thanks for the post. I learn alot from threads like these. Even though it can get heated battles going, I tend to pick up good info from both sides. I only get out west a couple of times a year, every opinion on here is something more to learn and digest. It keeps everyone safer in the end.
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MTdream
Well-known member
several keys people who watch it will get from it...clearly tracks around you, clearly tracks above you, and clearly set up snow...
Fact is, if someone triggers a slide, a mistake was made...not all mistakes are avoidable...I applaud you for posting it, and for not editing it...hopefully others learn...
C
CoyoteGirl
Well-known member
First, the name calling on this thread isn't helping anyone. Threads like this should be used for education and I don't ever remember a good teacher calling me stupid!
2nd, Corey, I see your points. Agree somewhat. Especially that we shouldn't be burning this guy at the stake!
I do feel that avalanches are different. The person who dies in one, or is buried and lives, isn't the only one effected. People who have to dig them out have many lasting effects from these traumas. Not just "missing" the person either. I am sure you know what I'm talking about.
It is easy to say "you wanna die doing what you love, great!" Then go do it by yourself and not with me there to clean up the mess. (I say this all tough, but if Brent were to be involved in an AVY I'd 10000% want to be there with him) Selfish of me? Probably. Selfish of the person dead? Probably. But when you are dead, you can't take responsibility for your mistakes. And missing someone, that is just what happens in life! But dealing with the aftermath of these things isn't a normal life lesson or event.
Cops, soldiers, etc get trained to deal with these traumatic events and effects. The average sledder isn't prepared to deal with blue bodies. IMO And other professional athletes, well they practice to perfect their game. They get paid well to take big risks. They also know to a high degree what their risks are and how to avoid them. They wear proper gear and get educated on their risks. They have regulations on what gear they have to wear to protect them too! And the rescue crews who are on hand to clean up the messes when things go wrong for these athletes are also educated/ trained/ prepared for such things, mentally, emotionally, physically, etc.
Yes, chit does happen sometimes and you get hit by a bus while crossing the road. You can die at any moment. That is the risk of life. I for one am not asking anyone to live a DULL life. Live it to it's fullest! Just do the best you can peeps.
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modsledr
Well-known member
CC, I agree with you in regard to it being the individuals choice...the difference, however, is that when a snow-sport enthusiast (I'm considering ALL backcountry snow sports) recklessly plays on a dangerous slope and triggers an avalanche, they are not just putting their own life in danger. Their riding partners are at risk, their rescuers are at risk, and often time strangers who are in the area are at risk.
The extreme sports riders are only puting their own life at risk.
Additionally, it's no consolation to the families and loved one's left behind that they died in an avalanche, knowing it could have been avoided, just because they died "doing something they loved"???? That is a total cop-out...and very selfish.
Personally, I will never knowingly ride with someone with that attitude...and we ONLY ride the mountains/backcountry.
Yes, chit does happen sometimes and you get hit by a bus while crossing the road. You can die at any moment. That is the risk of life. I for one am not asking anyone to live a DULL life. Live it to it's fullest! Just do the best you can peeps.
Well said!!
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modsledr
Well-known member
Thanks for posting the video, and for the classy response to the bashing.
There seems to be a common thread this year, though, of experienced back country riders, on well known slopes, triggering slides.
Just because you've ridden an area 100 times, doesn't mean you've seen the conditions that are present at that time, on that day. As our machines and skills take us further and further into the backcountry, we need to constantly evaluate the terrain and conditions AS THEY ARE PRESENTED TO US...not based on what we've seen in the past.
For example, here in WA, we are riding Mt Baker in Jan in 50 degree temps...everyone is saying they've NEVER seen it this warm in Jan, with the amount of snow we have.
So PLEASE use your heads out there (directed at EVERYONE)...pay attention to conditions at the time you are riding, it may save your life.
R
Rock Star
Well-known member
I too applaud your decision to explain.
" I knew that the avalanche forcast for this area that day was considerable and I made a bad choice in hind site"
this coupled with your experience and your video speak a LOT!
I am glad you got the chance to say oops, rather than having lost your life doing what you very obviously know and love.
Thanks for you comments. They will help others I think to not make the same mistake.
Cheers
" I knew that the avalanche forcast for this area that day was considerable and I made a bad choice in hind site"
this coupled with your experience and your video speak a LOT!
I am glad you got the chance to say oops, rather than having lost your life doing what you very obviously know and love.
Thanks for you comments. They will help others I think to not make the same mistake.
Cheers
Here is a little poll for all of you:
Rulon Gardner -- Hero or Dumbass??
Be interesting to see what the general public has to say.
Rulon Gardner -- Hero or Dumbass??
Be interesting to see what the general public has to say.
get real!
OH, PLEASE.............
ya know he wears the helmet cam when we ride dirt bikes too, but he isn't looking for a cliff to ride off of.........
he has been riding in that area for 20 years and I have been riding with him there for the last five years - there has not been a slide in that area that we have observed in that time - we did check the conditions and we do always have safety gear!
Consider asking or reading to gain information before the harsh uninformed comments, perhaps?
I personally think he was lookin for a little excitement considering he had a helmet cam on and was recording.
Not sure excitement was the right word.
OH, PLEASE.............
ya know he wears the helmet cam when we ride dirt bikes too, but he isn't looking for a cliff to ride off of.........
he has been riding in that area for 20 years and I have been riding with him there for the last five years - there has not been a slide in that area that we have observed in that time - we did check the conditions and we do always have safety gear!
Consider asking or reading to gain information before the harsh uninformed comments, perhaps?
M
modsledr
Well-known member
My thoughts exactly! He will be a statistic as I don't think he really learned anything by it!
Obviously you are unaware of the dangers out there....
You laugh in the video like it was a thrill, like it was something you can brag to your buddies at the pub this evening.
Educate yourself/
Ok, how about this:
We as snowmobilers take measures to avoid avalanches. For example, we carry probes, a shovel, a beacon, ABS pack, etc. This is because we do not want to get hurt or hurt anyone. Dont want to see our own familes or anyone else suffer for a wrong decision. However, many dont take an avalanche training course in order to see the signs and stay away, putting themselves and othes in danger because of poor decisions. And as a result, people find this an irresponsible act.
Now, we all live in areas with bad weather and we drive in these conditions. We of course wear a seat belt and would assume most even drive a little slower. However, your decision based on not knowing how to drive in these conditions could endanger yourself, friends/family in the vehicle, people in other vehicles and even the rescue people. So, how many of you have taken a defensive driving course to know how to correctly drive in these conditions?? Is this irresponsible as a driver of a vehicle??
We as snowmobilers take measures to avoid avalanches. For example, we carry probes, a shovel, a beacon, ABS pack, etc. This is because we do not want to get hurt or hurt anyone. Dont want to see our own familes or anyone else suffer for a wrong decision. However, many dont take an avalanche training course in order to see the signs and stay away, putting themselves and othes in danger because of poor decisions. And as a result, people find this an irresponsible act.
Now, we all live in areas with bad weather and we drive in these conditions. We of course wear a seat belt and would assume most even drive a little slower. However, your decision based on not knowing how to drive in these conditions could endanger yourself, friends/family in the vehicle, people in other vehicles and even the rescue people. So, how many of you have taken a defensive driving course to know how to correctly drive in these conditions?? Is this irresponsible as a driver of a vehicle??
From what him and his wife have posted, I think they have learned something. I think a few people on here are missing a point though. Dgoetz posted a truly remarkable educational film. There hasn't been an educational opportunity like this on this forum probably ever. I've never seen a clip like that. Has anyone ever seen an avalanche from a riders perspective, on film. I never have. Instead of bashing, why don't the truly knowledgeable people point out some do's and dont's and what was done right. Most people on here aren't experts, and I would bet a huge percentage of people on here, in D's shoes would have been in that same avy, and a lot might not have been able to ride it out.
Exceptionally good point bigfoot, and 100% spot-on. How many have ever seen it filmed from that perspective and lived to post the video? I commend Dgoetz for having the courage to post it on here and post it as he did knowing he was going to take a beating.
Beating up on each other isn't going to help make better riders nor help fix the snowpack. Genuine, honest discussion will at least help us gain knowledge from each other.
Everyone stay safe and have fun.
Beating up on each other isn't going to help make better riders nor help fix the snowpack. Genuine, honest discussion will at least help us gain knowledge from each other.
Everyone stay safe and have fun.
S
SSWIM
Well-known member
My assumption is we won't be seeing any "big pulls" on this forum anytime soon. At least not if it is in the least bit dangerous. And this is not intended to "roast" anyone. In years past how many times have we seen incredible "pulls" in conditions that were not all that favorable. Deep snow and inclines that defied gravity. Yes, this year is unique, no doubt.
Sam
Sam
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modsledr
Well-known member
A couple of thoughts on your continued attempt to justify.
1. When out driving a vehicle, REGARDLESS OF CONDITIONS, there are rules and norms of the road that everybody follows. It is only when someone deviates from the norms (like slowing down in bad conditions, staying in your lane, etc...) that an accident happens.
2. Since the machines available to the general public are now capable of getting the average, off the street person, into areas that only a few years ago were accessible by only seasoned, skilled riders, I would argue that it is EVERYONES responsibility to take an Avy Awareness Class...because there are yet to be rules and norms established that are recognized by the masses.
This event is a perfect example...dgoetz and his wife continue to justify because they have ridden the area for so long...however I hope they learned from this event that long term familiarity leads to complacency, and that had they better armed themselves with avy education, they might have looked at that slope differently on that particular day.
Great thread...keep the thoughts and ideas coming, and the bashing to a minimum...we can all learn and better equip ourselves for survival in the future.
IMO, it might have helped to include a little explaination *with* your video so people watching could understand your perspective. to watch it uncut followed by pages and pages of comments really put the footage out of context with your intent to educate...
so you lived to tell about it this time. I wonder what the outcome would have been if it broke while you were still headed upward on that slope?!?! I hope this educated you as much (or more) as it has educated us.
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