PRO-RMK STRUCTURAL ADHESIVES: WHAT TO USE, WHERE TO GET IT
- Thread starter mountainhorse
- Start date
wow I can't believe I didn't find that earlier, hours on the net wasted when I came across it the old fashioned google way. I knew it would be in here somewhere.
thanks for working with them to get that together, now I'll keep my fingers crossed that they have some to send out.
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I was recomended this from 3M Scotch-Weld DP-410 EPX Epoxy, as I cant get the Lord406 right now.
Any ideas if would work?
The sales guy says its stronger/better then Lord 406.
http://www.rgr.ie/media/wysiwyg/Dp410.pdf
Any ideas if would work?
The sales guy says its stronger/better then Lord 406.
http://www.rgr.ie/media/wysiwyg/Dp410.pdf
I'd ask about impact/shock resistance in cold weather and removability should you need to repair again/replace.
Stronger better is a pretty broad claim.
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Stronger better is a pretty broad claim.
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Does this give any good info?
This is what I can find:
Aerospace catalouge.
Shear Strength -55°C - 28.9, +23°C - 34.0, +82°C - 8.4
Work Life (mins) 8-10
Time to Handling Strength 30
Full Cure (days) 5
Viscosity at 27°C (Cps) (A+B) Thixotropic
Peel Strength (N/cm) 100
DP 410 Outstanding stability under static and dynamic loads.
High resistance to impact. thoughened Very good strength and excellent ageing characteristics.
Toughened adhesive types which combine the advantages of hard
and flexible types, i.e. with good peel strength, high shear strength
and good impact resistance
I would use Lord if I could, but its been on backorder from Polaris for 4 weeks and it might be another 4 weeks before I get any...
This is what I can find:
Aerospace catalouge.
Shear Strength -55°C - 28.9, +23°C - 34.0, +82°C - 8.4
Work Life (mins) 8-10
Time to Handling Strength 30
Full Cure (days) 5
Viscosity at 27°C (Cps) (A+B) Thixotropic
Peel Strength (N/cm) 100
DP 410 Outstanding stability under static and dynamic loads.
High resistance to impact. thoughened Very good strength and excellent ageing characteristics.
Toughened adhesive types which combine the advantages of hard
and flexible types, i.e. with good peel strength, high shear strength
and good impact resistance
I would use Lord if I could, but its been on backorder from Polaris for 4 weeks and it might be another 4 weeks before I get any...
Its has almost full strength after 3hours, so its no problem with that.
And heat makes it cure even faster.
CuringTime (Min)
OLs
at 23°C
(MPa)
10 0
70 0
75 0.36
80 1.50
90 3.07
120 12.08
150 18.05
180 22.70
Rick!, What are your thoughts on the bonding properties... outside of the full-cure time and removal issues?
Frank...
Again... Will it release with moderate temperature? (I see nothing about removal or releasing)
Also... the scotchweld epoxies MUST have perfectly clean surface prep... dont touch it with your hands after cleaning... even if your hands are clean.
How does it handle cold ??
I'm sure it will "function" and if this is all you can get and you don't mind that you will probably never get the two parts to separate without destroying both parts it is adhering... go for it!
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Frank...
Again... Will it release with moderate temperature? (I see nothing about removal or releasing)
Also... the scotchweld epoxies MUST have perfectly clean surface prep... dont touch it with your hands after cleaning... even if your hands are clean.
How does it handle cold ??
I'm sure it will "function" and if this is all you can get and you don't mind that you will probably never get the two parts to separate without destroying both parts it is adhering... go for it!
.
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The 3M stuff is 6% stronger in shear on aluminum/aluminum and 54% stronger in peel. The sled adhesive joints aren't designed in peel so this advantage is moot.
The 3M stuff has a pretty intense substrate prep including bead blasting, cleaning, and etching, if you read all the fine print. It does perform well in shear with CF.
406 only requires an alcohol surface wipe.
For the OP, if that the 3M stuff is all he can get, it will work. If it's a lap joint, it should be fine. I do have to advocate the use of 406, though, as I bet there was significant development and testing in order to validate its use on sleds.
I've taken apart small epoxy joints without ruining the components but it does take smart use of heat, and a bit more heat than MMA.
Thanks guys for all your info! Epoxy didnt sound that fun to work with...
I told them I want a Acrylic instead, so they came up with 3M DP 8410 and 8810 as a good alternative.
Still cant get LORD, so I will give it a try!
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/887097O/3m-scotch-weld-structural-acrylic-adhesives-brochure.pdf
3M Scotch-Weld 8405NS, 8410NS, 8805NS, 8810NS green multi-part low odor acrylic adhesive is compatible with ceramic, glass, ceramic, metal, plastic and wood materials with a 24 hr cure time. Provides a 10 min, 5 min working time. Delivers great performance with a shear strength of 3500, 3700, 4100 and peel strength of 30 piw, 50 piw. Perfect for bonding applications.
TTT for Dave... get 1 50ml kit with caulk gun adaptor and one extra 50ml tube and a few extra mixing tips.
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Was going to start a new post but thought I would just raise this one back up.
Now that more people are doing and using this has anyone seen a increase in work times by using the Lord 406 at say 50 degree's, 60? Usually keep the shop around their and wonder if I could get a bit more work time if dropping it even lower. Experienced it in 70+ degree's and a couple more minutes would of possibly helped get it completely bolted together.
Thanks for all the info in this thread, it has helped me immensely.
Now that more people are doing and using this has anyone seen a increase in work times by using the Lord 406 at say 50 degree's, 60? Usually keep the shop around their and wonder if I could get a bit more work time if dropping it even lower. Experienced it in 70+ degree's and a couple more minutes would of possibly helped get it completely bolted together.
Thanks for all the info in this thread, it has helped me immensely.
I took this information MH posted and called. They set me up and sent adhesive out quickly, . What is the working time once adhesive is applied to the parts before assembly, jus 6 min and then toss the tips out and how wide a bead??Thanks You for this information.You can order a complete "Kit" from Polaris Parts for this adhesive...
Lord 406 Repair Kit (50 ML) Polaris Part number 2204171
This kit (PN 2204171) includes
The kit includes the following items:
• 12 static mixer needles
• 1 50 ML adhesive cartridge
• 1 standard caulking gun adapter sleeve
• 1 plunger adapter
The price on this is kit is $195
The price for the 50ml adhesive cartridge itself, PN 2204400 is $40
I have found that you can purchase these items online from other sources at reasonable prices.
I've used www.ellsworth.com and www.nmsignsupply.com... great prices on a variety of adhesives... But I have to check on package sizes (50ml/300ml), glass-bead-accelerator and prices.
For around $80 including shipping you should be able to get an adhesive cartridge, 12 mixing nozzles, and a dedicated application gun.
Extra 50ml adhesive cartridges are about $14 each.
Sometimes these pop up on Ebay... but you have to watch out for expiration date and how they have been stored.
Make sure that you have plenty of the mixing nozzles on hand as they only have about a 6 minute usable life once the adhesive has been mixed in the nozzle.
I'm checking into some other vendors to see if they can put together a "Snowmobile repair package" for SnoWest readers.
406 "gun", 406 adhesive, 50ml cartridges , Mixing Nozzles
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So my polaris dealer didnt give me a plunger when i got the glue, is there anything I can use as a substitute from stuff at home?
Napa carries the guns and everything else needed. Here is the gun part number; MS.FU300S
