Presidential Candidates-2008--Who Supports Us?

[weetee]

WOW! Bagger, You dont "belittle People"? Look at your you own post about "engaging brain".
Now,My point was, (please engage your brain)
Loving and caring for our land has nothing to do with "jumping on the global warming bandwagon" The web site Oregongirl linked looks like it was wrote by Al Gore himself. This stuff is not proven, and for every one to take it as gospel ,and making it part of our culture, all in the name of "caring for our land" is contributing to the demise of our sport. The fact I'm having this discussion on snowest makes me think its allready to late. Just like I said before, land closures are not the only threat snowmobilers face. Lets not be so quick to throw it all away for something that MIGHT be true.

 

[Bagger]

WeeTee,
I think you may need to take a deep breath and read thru these posts again.
I did not attack you or tell you that YOU needed to engage your brain, I pointedly said people need to. That would make it a general statement and not one focused on you or Ruff or any ONE else.
If you read my last post you would see that I don't by into the global warming bit either. I do however read anything I can find about anything that interests me, or that I feel is important enough to stay awake for.
I don't go to the bashing thread on here. I don't read wrestling magazines. I don't read gardening magazines, I don't read cross stitch books or comic books or books on how to make money at home.
But I do read anything that I can get my hands on about sledding, biking, hiking, hunting, building, teaching, fabricating, archery, shooting and camping. I also read anything I can find about current world events. That would include the enviroment, war, economy, our borders, terrorisim, global warming, alternative fuels, and anything else that catches my eye/interest.
If I read a book about finance, it sure doesn't make me a banker. It does however make me smarter. Gives me information on things I WANT to do and DO NOT want to do.
I'm not saying your wrong WeeTee, I'm sure as hell not saying that I know everything. I'm just saying I'm going to keep my mind OPEN for good ideas NO MATTER WHERE they come from. A good idea, is a good idea, no matter who's it is. Just like a bad one.
If (to you) reading about someones idea's of global warming makes me a nut, then (to you) I'm a nut. But (to me) I'm just better informed.
If it makes you feel any better, I just gassed up the sleds, the tank in the trailer, and my big ole' tow rig (a nice smoky diesel), and I plan on towing up to the pristine mountains and riding my a** off for the next three days. I will have a fire in the fireplace, but it will be a propane one. I have a chemical toilet, but I dump it out in an outhouse. I will consume food items that are wrapped in plastic, aluminum foil and foam, but I will pack the wrappers back home where I sorta' recycle.
And while I may run over a tree (damn things are magnets) I don't plan on hugging any. Ok? B

 

[Wade]

WeeTee, I agree with that point. No one is every going to convince me that riding a snowmobile on 4 feet of snow, is going to doing any lasting damage to the environment. With bioremediations and the natural breakdown of hydrocarbons, and the lack of contact with the soil, snowmobiling is every bit as good for the environment, as say hiking.

I want a candidate that capable of avoiding the allure of the global warming hug fest. A candidate with a little common sense, real solutions, not feel good solutions. Fix the forest fire situation. Force all importing manufactures to follow the same environmental rules American manufactures do. But, don't take away our freedoms and recreation, unless it's completely unavoidable. And, from what I can see, there's not even an argument for that.

I also should have said that I believe that the total solar incident energy cycles are a major factor. Can you believe that with all our technology, no one can accurately graph the level of energy (sunlight) the sun has put out in over the past 200 years.

 

[weetee]

http://Rightalk.com
Click on global warming. (Very long clip)

 

[ruffryder]

http://Rightalk.com
Click on global warming. (Very long clip)

Nice post, good vid too, though it was long at 1 hr. 15 min.

It is a shame that the environmental push got on the global warming bandwagon, as there are many benefits to limiting energy use, energy efficiency and renewable energy generation. Though the global warming debate has many questions with it, the end result of changing technologies is still a good thing. Just because the climate won't change, doesn't disregard the fact that there are many pollutants that are emitted that should not be.

 

[Wade]

That's why I refer to the global warming bunch as "Evangelical Environmentalist" (as in TV Evangelical), It's all about the money.

Brother, send Mother Nature a hundred dollars, or she will call Al Gore home. Amen.

 

[ruffryder]

from the video, it seems that it is more of a result of the political/government machine and the misguided throwing of massive amounts of money around, than the will of greenies (part but not the whole problem). Though it was interesting to hear from the cofounder of green peace and what his thoughts were.

 

[Wade]

Yha, we should outlaw Chlorine.

 

[ruffryder]

Yha, we should outlaw Chlorine.

Yah, that was funny, and he was like, " you guys know it is one of the periodic elements right?" Ahhh good intentions gone wrong.

Well for all of you that were looking at Thompson, he is out of the race.

What do you guys think about the Barak and Clintons thoughts on health care? Giving subsidies to those that have no or limited coverage while keeping it a private system. Seems like a good idea to me, since those that have insurance pay for those that don't through higher prices anyways.

 

[bigfoot]

Yah, that was funny, and he was like, " you guys know it is one of the periodic elements right?" Ahhh good intentions gone wrong.

Well for all of you that were looking at Thompson, he is out of the race.

What do you guys think about the Barak and Clintons thoughts on health care? Giving subsidies to those that have no or limited coverage while keeping it a private system. Seems like a good idea to me, since those that have insurance pay for those that don't through higher prices anyways.

except for the fact you've taken away the incentive to get health care on your own or for your employers to offer it......

 

[weetee]

from the video, it seems that it is more of a result of the political/government machine and the misguided throwing of massive amounts of money around, than the will of greenies (part but not the whole problem). Though it was interesting to hear from the cofounder of green peace and what his thoughts were.

And why do you think the funds get sent to the global warming studies? The greenies are making global warming part of our culture, and the politicians follow. Thanks to Al Gore and the democrats, most Americans believe man made global warming is indisputable, and I'm affraid they will be more than willing to cripple this country, including our sport, for unproven science. These Americans, in my opinion, are greenies also.

 

[ruffryder]

I'm affraid they will be more than willing to cripple this country

I am curious why everybody thinks that stricter emissions/pollution laws will cripple the country? What are the reasons/examples for this point of view?

 

[xrated]

I am curious why everybody thinks that stricter emissions/pollution laws will cripple the country? What are the reasons/examples for this point of view?

I can't believe I'm with you. I will say it, Detroit needs to quit crying and just buckle down and get in the efficent car game. It's coming, why wait and put it off. I will by Honda next time I get a car, they have better millage and last longer then US made, but if Detroit put out cars like they could and should I'd be right back where I am now.

As for healthcare, I may pay more for uninsured folks now, but with my health care costs, not higher taxes. All this country wide health care has to get paid from somewhere and it's taxes.

I have no problem paying for kids(i was on state insurance as one) or for vets.(they did a service) but I have a HUGE problem paying in any way with federal or state money, health insurance for some 30 year old moron who thinks they can work at a coffee shop or book store as a living and expect me to pay insurance costs. I only went to 2 years of school, but it was 2 years that put me in the medical field so that my health insurance is better then most.

 

[Bagger]

I agree on the health care, someone's gotta pay for it. I'm starting to think my real name is someone.

What gets me is people want the government to run health care. When did you ever know the government to run a program right? It will be so inflated and overmanaged/underfunded that I think it will be a mess.

Back on target, I believe that Staged, Planned, Thought Out, and Well Covered by the Media protest are a great way to draw attention to area's being wrongfully closed. (remember the folks base jumping from El Cap?) But I don't believe me and a handfull of buddies routinely crossing boundaries to ride do any good, and I do believe they do harm.

I beleive that global warming is more about natural cycles and the population of the world that me idling my sled at the gate into Yellowstone. I also believe that we have better equipment due to the tighter regulations.

If a voter that knows nothing about a subject is presented with two arguments, one by people following the law, and one by people NOT following the law, I believe they will vote on the side that can show they are playing by the rules.

That's a lot of "I believe's", here's one more, I believe I'll go have a beer. B

 

[ruffryder]

One of the largest issues that I hear least about with the opportunity of universal public funded health care is the difficulty in competing with other countries due to our large private costs that are due to health care.

check this out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:WORLDHEALTH2.png

most of the industrial countries that we compete against do not have the need to pay this amount, making them cheaper to hire. I have heard this from a number of different sources, even my boss when he complains about how much money the business has to spend on it.

 

[xrated]

Hey ruff don't be talking like that. I need to keep getting my yearly raise to play with broken bones!!!

In all honesty, I work at one of the premier medical facilities in America and the world, I won't say where though. But the truth is, Drs and residents order a ton of chit that they don't need right away when less will due. Also just plain order alot of chit they don't need. Which is why I will be one of the worst patients ever if I land in the hospital.

Now not all the Drs are this way, but enough to make me want to shoot my own foot if it wouldn't land me in the hospital. alot of the Drs have good sense or good reasons for the orders.

 

[ruffryder]

So a lot has happened in the last couple of days. Guiliani is out, Thompson is out, Edwards is out. This leaves

Democrates
Hillary Clinton
Barack Obama

Republicans
Mike Huckabee (everytime I hear that name I always think "I heart Huckabee's" the movie, but I haven't even seen it.)
John McCain
Ron Paul
Mitt Romney

The democratic race is heating up and is pretty close, not sure where the Republicans are, I think McCain is looking to be in the lead right now, but time will tell for who filters to the top of both parties.

It is interesting that Ron Paul is running as a Republican, but will change to a Libertarian if he does not get the republican nomination.

Out

 

[xrated]

McCain is gonna pull for the republicans and I don't much know for Dems. Read an interesting piece inthe Minneapolis Star and Tribune yesterday about how Obama and McCain woudl be good. 2 differnt styles, one the new guy wih little expeirence either in politics or things such as war and then one guy who has served his whole life both in the military and congress. Me I'd really like to see McCain go all the way. If anyone has the ability to bridge the aisle I'd say it is McCain, he even attempted to get Obama to join him on a few things that only a handful of Rep and Dems got together on, but Obama said no.

Here's one to get this post going. What's everyones take on illegals?

Now I'm not saying I promote jumping the border and such, but you have to admit that the Mexicans have been very capitallistic in what they are doing. Let's face it, Americans are getting lazy and many jobs are considered below what many feel they should be doing. So good on the Mexicans and everyone else who jumped on in and said"hey I don't mind flipping burgers or standing around till someone pays me to mow the lawn". I say as long as they are willing to do the work then fast track them to green cards or citizenship and let's start getting taxes outta them.

 

[Bagger]

X,
I admire the work ethic as well, I'm all for anybody bettering themselves. I definately agree on the tax issue.
Here's a list of concerns:
1. Our current policy that if you have a baby on U.S. soil, the baby is a U.S. Citizen. I don't agree. If you are not here legally then neither is your child.
2. In many cities the medical system is collapsing under the burden of unisured people (not all illegals everywhere, but in the overrun border areas) that use emergency rooms as a health care provider.
3. Most of these workers that I've been around have zero love for this contry. It means nothing to them, it's just a paycheck. They are still loyal to the country they left, starving, and that worries me if they become an organized voting block.
4. The Mexican culture is differant than ours. Differant values and status system. I'm going to get called a racist over this, but it's true, differant cultures are just that, differant. Some people can cross those lines with ease, some refuse with all their might. I know Mexican's that have lived here for years and still can't speak the language, or read it.
5. The real issue to me is the borders. I don't care who you are, if your foundation isn't strong, your not strong. How many of you leave your door open incase someone wants to come in and eat a meal while you are gone? Or use your meds? Sleep in your bed? Shoot your guns? And would it be ok if they did that as long as they mowed the yard before they did? And tomorrow, they come back with a friend, or two, or three......and they always work, but they always stay. Pretty soon you have the nicest house on the block...except for one thing, it's no longer yours.
I hear countless folks on here say "you won't ride with my group unless you XXXXX" but they don't defend thier contry with the same vigor.
I'm all for anyone that want's to come here and better themselves, become part of this place and make it a better place for all to live in.
I have always believed that if you benefit from the circle, you owe the circle. Period. B.

 

[xrated]

I'm liking what you say Bagger and you again bring good points.

As for using the ER as health care, I know first hand what you mean. I work in a hospital as mentioned before, and the immigrants coming in is hard to believe sometimes. Although for our area it is Somalians.

Good point on the love for the old country and becoming an organized block, couldn't the same be said for the Irish or the Italians or even Mormoms? Of Course the big difference could be that they readily assimilated to the US.