Presidential Candidates-2008--Who Supports Us?

[Good to Go]

Wow... where do I start??

Ok, first things first:

It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep.

What an ignorant azzhole. Moron with blinders and lack of reasoning ability. 'nough said.

Past that, I am amused at the negative reviews of the potential candidates. Dems aside, which I dare say are a floundering pack of windmills, the Republicans have a decent line up across the board. I too can name lots of things I don't like about each, but aside from theatric comments, most of you would not have any problem voting for the top 5.

Are any of them perfect? Who's dumb enough to actually ask the question? Dear God, it's a big country, a big world, very complicated.... very intertwined. Special interest? You bet. It's how things get done. Greater good?? It's a term often used to make someone feel good about their choice; seldom does it become responsible policy.

SAWS is important, and Dave does good work. His comment about Congress is right on and is missed by most people. Of course I don't like a lot of the bills that Bush has signed. Wish he'd veto'd dozens. But who sent them there? Shared blame, different topic I guess.

To the original question, I'm not sure which candidate would be "best" for us, but I do know which party is.

Beyond that (snowmobiling aside as an issue), choosing a party to follow is still easy. Less government has never failed. More government rarely works. Hmmmmm..... leaves you with?

 

[ruffryder]

It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep.

Well if you say that the largest threat to snowmobiling (and ohv use) is pollution and noise, and yet most riders spend lots of money on parts and accessories that make both much worse, yet complain about lack and loss of riding areas, not sure what a different word than ignorant should be used?

Isn't something like the above on a SAWS poster somewhere?

What an ignorant azzhole. Moron with blinders and lack of reasoning ability. 'nough said.

Past that, I am amused at the negative reviews of the potential candidates. Dems aside, which I dare say are a floundering pack of windmills, the Republicans have a decent line up across the board. I too can name lots of things I don't like about each, but aside from theatric comments, most of you would not have any problem voting for the top 5.

Are any of them perfect? Who's dumb enough to actually ask the question? Dear God, it's a big country, a big world, very complicated.... very intertwined. Special interest? You bet. It's how things get done. Greater good?? It's a term often used to make someone feel good about their choice; seldom does it become responsible policy.

Thought for a second I was watching the O'Reilly factor.

leaves you with?

Ron Paul?

 

[xrated]

Not sure on the how. It could just be that my experiences with snowmobilers has been from a rural background elsewhere, and here in Washington (Seattle metro area) the snowmobilers are from a more urban background?

Another thing might be that some of the people moved out here for the mountains and such, which brings a higher level of caring about the area?

FWIW, I know a lot of rednecks in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michigan, but I have found less here. Could be my small pool of people I am interacting with but this is what I have noticed.

Well there;s your problem you know FIBS. Just kidding there.

I'm gonna go on this, so are you implying that being from a rural area that I am now less caring about things, or am I just plain dumber? And moving to the area brings a higher level of caring? I'd argue that those who have been in an area for longer periods of time are more in touch with what is needed and understand the importance of caring for things and the best ways to do so.

I myself grew up on a lake and have witnessed folks moving to the area for the water...and thusly have seen what they view to be a more caring educated way of dealing witht the lake. They all bought older cabins with bad septics that leaked into the lake causing more weed growth. Instead of fixing the septics they bought a weed harvester and now ruin good fish habitat so that they can run boats without worrying about weeds choking the prop. Also they all are making a huge push to keep the shorelines natural and preserve the area, funny thing is that they all have lawns, etc right down to the waters edge. And yet if my family who has been on the lake since 1910 wants to have a lawn to the lake shore, we had better not. Nope gotta preserve the natural shore(which we do, of 1.2 miles of shore, around 1 mile is natural).

So I guess I can see where folks from an urban area or who maved to an area for something like mountains would be better people and know better what needs to be done.

 

[ruffryder]

xrated,

Could be my small pool of people I am interacting with but this is what I have noticed.

guess you missed the above? I was trying to come up with reasons for what I have noticed?

You got any theories?

 

[xrated]

xrated,



guess you missed the above? I was trying to come up with reasons for what I have noticed?

You got any theories?

I saw that...just coming up with counter points for ya. Everyone knows you need a large basis of people to determine cultural view points and idealogies.

 

[Good to Go]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good to Go
leaves you with?

Originally Posted by ruffryder
Ron Paul?

Uhhhhhh, no. He's an idiot when it comes to long term survival. International relations and problems are beyond his capabilities. He's not an option.

"leaves you with", as in, it ain't the liberals.

You riding Thursday night?

 

[Wade]

Just a little info.

McCain is the most liberal on the GOP ballot, opposing drilling for oil in the Alaskan wilderness and supporting an aggressive response to global warming, supports clean coal, and he wants to allow construction of roads in national forests; he co-sponsored a bill to cap greenhouse gas emissions.

Romney is the candidate most friendly to the automotive industry, supports domestic crude production, nuclear, and rebuild the roads. In his latest speech, he declared that global warming could be fixed through efficiencies, such as better gas mileage.

Giuliani,said he is not sure how much humans contribute to global warming, wants to expand nuclear energy, hydroelectric, clean coal, and solar power.

Huckabee supports caps on carbon emissions and recent legislation that requires automakers to provide 35 miles per gallon fuel efficiency on vehicles by 2020. Big farm supporter, and Coal liquidification.

Thompson promotes expanded domestic oil and gas drilling.

Ron Paul wants to yank all subsidies and R&D funding from the energy sector, which many believe would benefit the growth of renewables. He's cosponsored bills that would offer tax breaks to Americans who commute by bicycle and use public transportation. He allows for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, boost the use of coal, and embrace nuclear power. Moreover, it wouldn't do diddly about global warming because, Paul reasons, "we're not going to be very good at regulating the weather."

Hillary, is for alternative energy, and carbon credits, but is already getting dinged by environmentalist for government handouts for who gets the credits, and how they can move jobs overseas, and sale the credits. Supports coal liquidification, and coal carbon sequestering.

Barack wants to develop clean-coal technology, coal liquidification, and a grid infrastructure that can accommodate renewable-energy generation and smart metering and distributed storage.

 

[Oregongirl]

Information (may be jaded)-haven't had a chance to review it yet.

But....here it is: http://www.lcv.org/voterguide/

I haven't read all these posts, I'm just putting this link here because it's seems an appropriate place to post it.

My perspective is that as outdoor enthusiasts, we are all at some level conservationists. The difference between us and them is access to our lands....and in many cases - impact to homes, families and communities when they restrict or "take it away" from us.

Just my $.02. I hope you all find the linked information at least interesting, if not informative.

-Susie

 

[student driver]

I think it is sad when people put more importance on snowmobile riding than any other topic when choosing a Presidential candidate..... I would hope energy/foreign/health care policy would be much more important than where you can ride your sled.
QUOTE]

I think it is pretty simple for normal thinking Americans to make a short list of the 5 or 10 most important issues to them that the President has some control over. Once you have your list of issues, if you can not decide whether the conservatives or the liberals support your issues better, it might be wise to sit at home on election day. Uneducated voters is what is one of our biggest problems.

Access for multiple-use, including snowmobiling and proper management of our natural resources is in my list of important issues. So is my right to own a gun. So is a strong military. So is less government control of my life. So is private property rights.

Any question which camp I fall in?

I should hope not.

Exactly.
All of the above

 

[Bagger]

Not sure on the how. It could just be that my experiences with snowmobilers has been from a rural background elsewhere, and here in Washington (Seattle metro area) the snowmobilers are from a more urban background? Could be my small pool of people I am interacting with but this is what I have noticed.

So I'm guessing that you were living in a rural area in the midwest? So you knew snowmobilers from rural area's......now you live urban, and the guys you know are urban. The Seattle metro area has a sufficient population to out vote the rest of the state. That doesn't make the voters there right about everyting, just means there are more of them and they are better organized.

It's dangerous to make statements that sound like only the urban people that you know are more caring than the people that you know back on the farm.

I know that rednecks are thought of as a bunch of careless jacked up truck muddin sign shootin' beer swillin' hell raising folks. See that, hate it.

They are also farmers that tend to the land nearly everyday of thier lives. They LIVE with the land, everyday. Rain, shine, snow, drought, heat, cold.

They don't VISIT the land when it's in the condition that appeals to them, and spend the rest of thier lives standing on asphalt or concrete.

I know people think that loud pipes ruin riding area's. But here's a list for you and it has nothing to do with noise, or being a redneck, 'cause @ssholes come from everywhere:

1. 15 sleds barreling down the trail as fast as they can go and nearly running over everyone else in corners. Everyone of them on and off the gas leaving a humped up mess in thier wake.
2. Pack of sled stopped IN the trail. Leaving no way around.
3. Same size pack, parked the same, swilling beer.
4. Same group, stomping the beer cans into the snow.......
5. Cleaning the trash out of the sleds and truck in the snowpark, onto the ground.
6. Same type of group all sailing right by the NO SNOWMOBILES sign on thier way to ride on private property, that they may or maynot have permission to ride.
7. The same as rule 6, but at the edge of the wilderness. And when called on it, saying...."well, we're just over....."
8. Parking with no reguard for anyone else in the snowpark.
9. Running the roads/closed trails.
10. Where do you suppose most people see snowmobilers? How many times have you come across a crowd of NON snowmobilers out in the sticks? How many do you PASS or MEET on the road driving to the SP? Think about that the next time you blow past someone and cover thier car with slush off the road, or cut them off, or PUT THEM IN DANGER by just having to be the first on the snow.

I think matters like these effect how people perceive us more than a loud pipes.
And I think those people vote. So maybe the title of this thread should be " Who of US best supports US?" Bagger

 

[ruffryder]

I know that rednecks are thought of as a bunch of careless jacked up truck muddin sign shootin' beer swillin' hell raising folks.

Sounds like the rednecks I am talking about.

They are also farmers that tend to the land nearly everyday of thier lives. They LIVE with the land, everyday. Rain, shine, snow, drought, heat, cold.

Um, they are not rednecks, they are farmers. Haven't met any redneck farmers in my neck of the woods. I was a farmer, tree farmer actually. Maybe I haven't met to many of farmers kids?

I know people think that loud pipes ruin riding area's.

They do, seen it first hand. Also, lived near a trail and it annoyed me to no end. Fricken polaris triples with stingers.

1. 15 sleds barreling down the trail as fast as they can go and nearly running over everyone else in corners. Everyone of them on and off the gas leaving a humped up mess in thier wake.
2. Pack of sled stopped IN the trail. Leaving no way around.
3. Same size pack, parked the same, swilling beer.
4. Same group, stomping the beer cans into the snow.......
5. Cleaning the trash out of the sleds and truck in the snowpark, onto the ground.
6. Same type of group all sailing right by the NO SNOWMOBILES sign on thier way to ride on private property, that they may or maynot have permission to ride.
7. The same as rule 6, but at the edge of the wilderness. And when called on it, saying...."well, we're just over....."
8. Parking with no reguard for anyone else in the snowpark.
9. Running the roads/closed trails.
10. Where do you suppose most people see snowmobilers?

very good list. I would consider the above as rednecks. I have seen much more of this type of riding in Mich and Il than I have out here in Wash. Which is why I made the comments. Maybe it is the mountains that bring more respect (safety/survival/seriousness) for the way snowmobilers behave? Could that be the reason for the difference that I see?

 

[Bagger]

Ruf,
I don't know what the differance is. If bad conduct is more prevalent back in the heartland, I'm glad I'm not there......I'm sick enough of it here.

It's not just sledders, every group has a slice of members that don't think about how their actions look to others. It does often seem that the ones preaching about how others shouldn't judge them and how limits shouldn't be set , are the ones that are causing problems.

I bowhunt the same area that we primarily ride in. It's against the law here to sled during a hunting season. It's also against the law here to ride forest service roads before they are bermed. Tried to hunt Thanksgiving weekend, got run over by FRIENDS on sleds. Explained the law to them. Next day, got run over (by them) again.

I have to think that self government is the only answer. If we don't police ourselves, we simply leave it to others.

On a more focused note, what did you think of the NH primary? B

 

[ruffryder]

On a more focused note, what did you think of the NH primary?

I think they are getting pretty interesting.

McCaine is looking pretty good. From the debates that I saw, I think with all issues aside he is the best leader, most knowledgeable. His policies are realistic which is good. Forward thinking is great, but if it is not possible to get things passed, what is the point.

The battle between Obama and Clinton is interesting. It is ironic that we are at a point in time where there is a strong possibility for either a first female president and a first african-american president. I personally like Obama for his message and his stance on some of the issues. I think he would be the best leader out of the Democrats. I really dislike the whole father/son husband/wife nepotism thing.

That is what I am thinking. What are the rest of you seeing? I noticed with friends that two people can watch the same debate and come out with different about who they like.

The Daily show rip of guiliani and using 9/11 was pretty funny. Haven't seen any of those snippets before.

 

[weetee]

The "Daily show". That explains allot. I once had liberal veiws of the world, but then I grew up.

 

[ruffryder]

The "Daily show". That explains a lot. I once had liberal veiws of the world, but then I grew up.

that is funny

so how about your opinion? besides of me?

 

[Wade]

I don't really like any of the candidates, their all politicians. They all talk about alternative energy, I like that personally. Some talk about Carbon Credits, I think that's stupid. All the Dems talk about doing something with health care, as if social health care won't bankrupt us. Most seem to be spending time differentiating themselves from one another.

McCain is the most trustworthy.

Huckabee, would probably do.

Ron Paul would be stone walled by congress,

Romney, don't trust him.

Giuliani, who let him in?

Barack, I get this mental image of a skinny little child sitting behind the desk in the White House. But, as Dems go, I could see him doing the best job.

Hillary, I get an image of her sitting behind the desk in the White House, getting even with Bill. Wonder if Bill would be welcome in the White House? Biggest question is, who will she sale the country out to?

Edwards owes the unions.

Sorry, is there another choice?

 

[xrated]

The "Daily show". That explains allot. I once had liberal veiws of the world, but then I grew up.

Man i love the daily show and I'm no liberal...it's just funny chit and they can still actually give you some new. May sound bad for me, but I'll take 30 minutes of that over 15 of CNN or Fox news.

I'm goign with Wade, I like McCain. Been wanting him to win and run since his first go round. The guy is the straightest of shooter of the bunch.

 

[weetee]

But....here it is: http://www.lcv.org/voterguide/

I haven't read all these posts, I'm just putting this link here because it's seems an appropriate place to post it.

My perspective is that as outdoor enthusiasts, we are all at some level conservationists. The difference between us and them is access to our lands....and in many cases - impact to homes, families and communities when they restrict or "take it away" from us.

Just my $.02. I hope you all find the linked information at least interesting, if not informative.

-Susie

Greenie alert!

 

[blueddeke]

I think it is sad when people put more importance on snowmobile riding than any other topic when choosing a Presidential candidate..... I would hope energy/foreign/health care policy would be much more important than where you can ride your sled.

Special interests are killing this country, from the homophobes to the gunophiles to the abortionists. Topics that only effect a small minority of the public are being used to decide major government races. Seems the opposite of what it should be.

Ok, let me start this by saying, "In principal, I agree with what you are saying." Now that's out of the way lets' look at the bigger picture.
Access to, "public," lands in this country is shrinking at an alarming rate. This is not simply an issue for snowmobile enthusiasts, but for everyone who enjoys the National Forests and BLM Lands; including those that hike, fish, hunt, cross country ski, ride motorcycles and ATVs, backcountry ski/snowboard, etc.
The persons that will constitute the Presidency and Congress in 2008 will either continue to reduce the amount of land that we can access, keep what is left in tact, or give land back (although option this is a long shot). This IS a larger issue in American Politics, affecitng a vast number of Americans, and must be considered when choosing candidates.
As for special interests...well, we will all see how that changes over the next decade. This issue has become a big issue in politics and I believe, because of it, we will see their influence diminish over time. Politicians do not like to have issues in the spotlight that people percieve as negative, bad for re-elections.
Personally, I am a conservative Independent and I look to those candidates, Republican or Democrat, that stand for Constitutional rights, possess the ability to stand stong in world politics, keep this country safe from foreign aggressors, understand economics, and believes in granting the States the power to make policy on lands and issues within their borders.
Since I have just described the perfect politician, do these people exist? Most likely not....however we need to find those persons that most represent the above beliefs. It is a matter of asking the questions! The best way to accomplish this is to join organizations, clubs, unions, etc., that share your belief system. Through these groups, you will have many of your questions answered.
Finally, get out and vote. Your opinion counts!

 

[Bagger]

I think WeeTee calling Oregongirl a greenie is the epitomie of "uninformed". Come on folks, don't prove Rufie's point for him.

Here's the way it's supposed to work:

1. Start and warm up brain.
2. Engage Brain.
3. Get a clue about what you want to talk about.
4. Give some thought to how you feel about the facts that you now know.
5. Then open mouth.
6. Exercise caution while venting brain through mouth.
7. Close mouth.
8. Feel free to leave brain engaged.

B