Patrol Plans Sobriety Checkpoints

[Mafesto]

Sober drivers kill more people every year than drunk drivers.

So should we outlaw driving sober?

Of course not, but it proves that statistics can show anything you want them to show.

My point is that drivers with a BAC of .10 or less are no more dangerous than most others on the road, yet some of you act like they are axe murderers!

Stupid remarks stating what you will do if someone "kills" your kid while driving at .08
How is that different than hitting your kid while ......
falling asleep
changing radio/cd
talking on cell phone
drinking pop/coffee
trying to control kids etc
while driving?
All the above kill people. And they are just as dead, but it seems acceptable.
Hmmm.

 

[ripperd]

The good Lord knows the exact date & time each & everyone of us will pass away.
It's called fate.
It would be quite arrogant to think that our actions can alter his plans for us.

Whether alcohol is involved in this death or not is a simple detail, nothing more.

You have got to be kidding me!!!!

I make decisions every day between prematurely ending my life, and extending it. So god is making me do those? Do I run this yellow light? Do I slow down because the guy next to me is, even though I don't see why he is yet? Going on the freeway on my bike do I see how fast it can go in traffic? Do I stay at a friends after I have been partying there?

Fate is what happens due to chance. Fate is NOT what happens due to your own poor decisions. That is using it as a scapegoat.

 

[Pro_Marinero]

So because I want to drive after going out and drinking, and we are in America it't my basic right as a citizen? So what about little Johny or old man Williams who is walking home from the neighbors? I guess if they get plowed over, tough crap cause it's my right and basic liberty to drive drunk? I don't see that as temporary security or having a right stripped away.

You miss the point.

Of course it is against the law. However, the sober driver is treated the same as a drunk at these checkpoints without reasonable suspicion. That is exactly what the 4th amendment protects against.

Driving drunk is bad, no argument here. Thousands of people do it everyday. People also have meth labs in their houses. People build bombs in their house. People do many more illegal and creepy things in their houses everyday than the amount of drunk drivers on the road. These things have the potential to damage and possibly kill, much like drunk driving. Are you willing to let the police have a peek around your place because you "have nothing to hide"? The checkpoint is the slippery slope. Where does it stop?

Liberty used to be taken much more seriously than it is now. In our insular world of today, safety is the most paramount thing above all others, and slowly those basic liberties of eroded inch-by-inch. In this maniacal push for personal "security" the basic rights of the American citizen have vanished. That means YOUR rights are slowly disappearing, but it goes without a whimper. I can't type a thing here which will change a mind that is already made. Will you register your gun when asked at some point? Will you sign up for that national ID? Let's go all the way and get that bar code tattooed on our hand while we're at it. It will be more convenient for purchasing and "security".

When you put the power over many in the hands of few, the potential for abuse exists. Human history shows tha it will eventually happen. More and more we are setting ourselves up in such a scenario. The police officer has the utmost power over the ordinary citizen. Who polices them? Nationwide LEO DUI rates are near zero. They get the pass, yet the ordinary citizen is treated as a criminal without regard for prior circumstance. Why is this tolerated without an uproar?

Like it or not, these issues are interconnected. Reading between the lines is required. Theoretical possibilites regarding little Jimmy or Johnny only go so far. Yes, people die on the road with and without alcohol every day. That will continue to happen no matter what type of enforcement is used. I for one would hope that the slow erosion of liberties would at some point become apparent to all and this zealous quest for overarching "security" in their life in relation to the loss of rights would become unpalatable. Security is an illusion. I can't put it plainer than that. Security is never guaranteed, but your liberties are. Don't sacrifice one for the supposed attainment of the other. It never works.

 

[Mafesto]

You miss the point.

Of course it is against the law. However, the sober driver is treated the same as a drunk at these checkpoints without reasonable suspicion. That is exactly what the 4th amendment protects against.

Driving drunk is bad, no argument here. Thousands of people do it everyday. People also have meth labs in their houses. People build bombs in their house. People do many more illegal and creepy things in their houses everyday than the amount of drunk drivers on the road. These things have the potential to damage and possibly kill, much like drunk driving. Are you willing to let the police have a peek around your place because you "have nothing to hide"? The checkpoint is the slippery slope. Where does it stop?

Liberty used to be taken much more seriously than it is now. In our insular world of today, safety is the most paramount thing above all others, and slowly those basic liberties of eroded inch-by-inch. In this maniacal push for personal "security" the basic rights of the American citizen have vanished. That means YOUR rights are slowly disappearing, but it goes without a whimper. I can't type a thing here which will change a mind that is already made. Will you register your gun when asked at some point? Will you sign up for that national ID? Let's go all the way and get that bar code tattooed on our hand while we're at it. It will be more convenient for purchasing and "security".

When you put the power over many in the hands of few, the potential for abuse exists. Human history shows tha it will eventually happen. More and more we are setting ourselves up in such a scenario. The police officer has the utmost power over the ordinary citizen. Who polices them? Nationwide LEO DUI rates are near zero. They get the pass, yet the ordinary citizen is treated as a criminal without regard for prior circumstance. Why is this tolerated without an uproar?

Like it or not, these issues are interconnected. Reading between the lines is required. Theoretical possibilites regarding little Jimmy or Johnny only go so far. Yes, people die on the road with and without alcohol every day. That will continue to happen no matter what type of enforcement is used. I for one would hope that the slow erosion of liberties would at some point become apparent to all and this zealous quest for overarching "security" in their life in relation to the loss of rights would become unpalatable. Security is an illusion. I can't put it plainer than that. Security is never guaranteed, but your liberties are. Don't sacrifice one for the supposed attainment of the other. It never works.

This is by far the best post to any thread in over a year.

 

[xrated]

Pro- You have good points and I do agree on some. I just don't see driving as a "right" the same as owning a gun(which I don't ). I guess, take something like smoking in bars. Can't be done in all of MN and I think it's a load of crap(don't smoke). If I don't want to be around smoke I will choose to go somewhere smoke free(although I do like not smelling like a skanky trailer the next morning). I see this as different then driving with drunks around. Unfortunatly we don't have seperate roads that go to the same place, one for sober drivers and one for drunk drivers or those who think the legal limit is a joke. MN used to have bars that choose to be smoke free though, thus giving people choices. So can you kinda see my point? Me I'd be much more concerned about the feds complaining cause they can't listen in on my calls, internet actions, etc as much as they could a few months ago. Just heard a add saying how bad we were for letting certain bills that gave the feds more spy power on us expire. Me I say good on us.

 

[Mafesto]

Pro- You have good points and I do agree on some. I just don't see driving as a "right" the same as owning a gun(which I don't ). I guess, take something like smoking in bars. Can't be done in all of MN and I think it's a load of crap(don't smoke). If I don't want to be around smoke I will choose to go somewhere smoke free(although I do like not smelling like a skanky trailer the next morning). I see this as different then driving with drunks around. Unfortunatly we don't have seperate roads that go to the same place, one for sober drivers and one for drunk drivers or those who think the legal limit is a joke. MN used to have bars that choose to be smoke free though, thus giving people choices. So can you kinda see my point? Me I'd be much more concerned about the feds complaining cause they can't listen in on my calls, internet actions, etc as much as they could a few months ago. Just heard a add saying how bad we were for letting certain bills that gave the feds more spy power on us expire. Me I say good on us.

So you admit some laws go too far.
I agree.
Now the debate is which laws do we get to disrespect because they are wrong?
We all have our own agenda, don't we.

 

[xrated]

So you admit some laws go too far.
I agree.
Now the debate is which laws do we get to disrespect because they are wrong?
We all have our own agenda, don't we.

i do agree some go to far...like the sign at Wal-mart saying you have to be 21 to buy handgun ammo? Well what if I'm 19 and have a .357 or 44 carbine I want to shoot?

Me I will disrespect the laws that don't put others at risk when I do so...

 

[Mafesto]

I used to work on the road.
Left on Sunday & returned home on Friday.

My Friday drive home was either.................
1- A relaxing drive while enjoying a few cold ones, obeying the law to the
letter so as no to get pulled over.
or
2- A stress filled event consisting of high speed, questionable passing, blown
stop signs & becoming irate with knuckleheads who held me up, all to get
home quickly to my loved ones I dearly missed.
But no drinking.

Which driver would you rather encounter? #1 or #2 ?

 

[skidoorulz]

You miss the point.

Of course it is against the law. However, the sober driver is treated the same as a drunk at these checkpoints without reasonable suspicion. That is exactly what the 4th amendment protects against.

Driving drunk is bad, no argument here. Thousands of people do it everyday. People also have meth labs in their houses. People build bombs in their house. People do many more illegal and creepy things in their houses everyday than the amount of drunk drivers on the road. These things have the potential to damage and possibly kill, much like drunk driving. Are you willing to let the police have a peek around your place because you "have nothing to hide"? The checkpoint is the slippery slope. Where does it stop?

Liberty used to be taken much more seriously than it is now. In our insular world of today, safety is the most paramount thing above all others, and slowly those basic liberties of eroded inch-by-inch. In this maniacal push for personal "security" the basic rights of the American citizen have vanished. That means YOUR rights are slowly disappearing, but it goes without a whimper. I can't type a thing here which will change a mind that is already made. Will you register your gun when asked at some point? Will you sign up for that national ID? Let's go all the way and get that bar code tattooed on our hand while we're at it. It will be more convenient for purchasing and "security".

When you put the power over many in the hands of few, the potential for abuse exists. Human history shows tha it will eventually happen. More and more we are setting ourselves up in such a scenario. The police officer has the utmost power over the ordinary citizen. Who polices them? Nationwide LEO DUI rates are near zero. They get the pass, yet the ordinary citizen is treated as a criminal without regard for prior circumstance. Why is this tolerated without an uproar?

Like it or not, these issues are interconnected. Reading between the lines is required. Theoretical possibilites regarding little Jimmy or Johnny only go so far. Yes, people die on the road with and without alcohol every day. That will continue to happen no matter what type of enforcement is used. I for one would hope that the slow erosion of liberties would at some point become apparent to all and this zealous quest for overarching "security" in their life in relation to the loss of rights would become unpalatable. Security is an illusion. I can't put it plainer than that. Security is never guaranteed, but your liberties are. Don't sacrifice one for the supposed attainment of the other. It never works.

I know, I know, I know, I said I was done with this but I cannot resist this one. You are talking about 2 totally diferant things here. Driving is not a right it is a privalege that takes place on PUBLIC property paid for by the taxpayers to use. Now don't you think the public should be able to use these roads and feel safe doing so? Use of public property has to be done in accordance with the law PERIOD no questions asked. If you do not use it in accordance with the law your privalege to do so is taken away. Snowmobilers of all people should be able to understand this concept. Public property is just like private property with one exception. Public is owned by everyone, and private is owned by 1 person. Now if I go hunt on private property I am to obey the RULES ( LAWS) given to me by the land owner. If I disobey the rules there is a pinishment, usually loss of hunting PRIVALEGES. Are there any questions? Now to address the question if I am willing to let the police come into my hose and look around? HELL no I will not!!!!!! They do not have that right on PRIVATE property. And the Constitution protects me from that happening. And if that ever does happen you will see a whole other side of me. Are there any questions as to the differance between public and private property. And anyone who says an automobile is private property, I will say yeah it is When it is in your yard, but as soon as you pull it out on a PUBLIC street you are now subject to the laws set forth for driving which includes being stopped at a safety check point.

 

[Mafesto]

Use of public property has to be done in accordance with the law PERIOD no questions asked. If you do not use it in accordance with the law your privalege to do so is taken away. Snowmobilers of all people should be able to understand this concept. Public property is just like private property with one exception. Public is owned by everyone, and private is owned by 1 person.

I don't like hypotheticals, but you brought snowmobiling into this.
So here's one for you.
If we lost all of our public land riding "privilages", would you be law abiding?
or
Would you be among the rest of us rebels out there still riding?

 

[skidoorulz]

I would probably still ride, but I would also be MAN enough to accept the consequences if caught.

 

[Mafesto]

See?
We are not that different.

There is nothing wrong with rebelling aginst big brother, in fact it's honorable.

 

[Blu Du]

Maf i hope a drunk like your self hits you right in your drivers door at 70 and then we will see what you think about dwi. or better yet hit your passenger door with your wife siiting there you stupid ****.

 

[Anti-Hero]

Why is driving a privilege, but not a right, but the definition includes the word right. Some of my taxes go to road maintance, I do not have the privilege of saying wait since i choose not to drive i do not want my taxes to maintain the roads i do not use. I believe that driving is neither a right or a privilege but more a necessity for people to live.

 

[xrated]

Maf i hope a drunk like your self hits you right in your drivers door at 70 and then we will see what you think about dwi. or better yet hit your passenger door with your wife siiting there you stupid ****.

Now why would you wish that on anyone? Yeah maf said some dumb things, but to wish that on someone is just wrong. Plus I got a small feeling Maf was trying to stir the pot a bit now that the snow is going away.

 

[Anti-Hero]

Maf i hope a drunk like your self hits you right in your drivers door at 70 and then we will see what you think about dwi. or better yet hit your passenger door with your wife siiting there you stupid ****.

Great insight on the topic, thanks your input is most helpful, what would snowest do without that tidbit of information!

Why would you wish that on someone? Skidoorulz and I went tooth and nail on this topic and I would never wish anything bad on him. Hell I don't even know the guy, He is just another sledder on snowest with a different opinion on one topic, I could most likely say that for the majority of issues we would be on the same page. Like gun control or Immagration, I am willing to bet we would stand together.

 

[Blu Du]

Great insight on the topic, thanks your input is most helpful, what would snowest do without that tidbit of information!

thats what i think about drunks. if you had a loved one killed you would think the same way too.

 

[Anti-Hero]

thats what i think about drunks. if you had a loved one killed you would think the same way too.

Not to wish that everyone that went to the bar and had a few drinks dies or gets hurt, no sorry I don't think I would. I am not pissed off at beryllium because it killed a loved one. And yes that could have been prevented as well.

 

[racingpit]

You miss the point.

Of course it is against the law. However, the sober driver is treated the same as a drunk at these checkpoints without reasonable suspicion. That is exactly what the 4th amendment protects against.

Driving drunk is bad, no argument here. Thousands of people do it everyday. People also have meth labs in their houses. People build bombs in their house. People do many more illegal and creepy things in their houses everyday than the amount of drunk drivers on the road. These things have the potential to damage and possibly kill, much like drunk driving. Are you willing to let the police have a peek around your place because you "have nothing to hide"? The checkpoint is the slippery slope. Where does it stop?

Liberty used to be taken much more seriously than it is now. In our insular world of today, safety is the most paramount thing above all others, and slowly those basic liberties of eroded inch-by-inch. In this maniacal push for personal "security" the basic rights of the American citizen have vanished. That means YOUR rights are slowly disappearing, but it goes without a whimper. I can't type a thing here which will change a mind that is already made. Will you register your gun when asked at some point? Will you sign up for that national ID? Let's go all the way and get that bar code tattooed on our hand while we're at it. It will be more convenient for purchasing and "security".

When you put the power over many in the hands of few, the potential for abuse exists. Human history shows tha it will eventually happen. More and more we are setting ourselves up in such a scenario. The police officer has the utmost power over the ordinary citizen. Who polices them? Nationwide LEO DUI rates are near zero. They get the pass, yet the ordinary citizen is treated as a criminal without regard for prior circumstance. Why is this tolerated without an uproar?

Like it or not, these issues are interconnected. Reading between the lines is required. Theoretical possibilites regarding little Jimmy or Johnny only go so far. Yes, people die on the road with and without alcohol every day. That will continue to happen no matter what type of enforcement is used. I for one would hope that the slow erosion of liberties would at some point become apparent to all and this zealous quest for overarching "security" in their life in relation to the loss of rights would become unpalatable. Security is an illusion. I can't put it plainer than that. Security is never guaranteed, but your liberties are. Don't sacrifice one for the supposed attainment of the other. It never works.

I agree with you! As generations of people think that they have a better idea, the direction of our country changes further from what our forefathers wanted our country to be.

 

[shortstop20]

I admit, I've booze cruised. What else are you to do with the time in my state when every road runs North and South or East and West. For petes sake, You could almost tie a rope to the steering wheel and a brick on the pedal for an autopilot they are so straight. Not to mention alot of times you are "In the Middle of BFE!" with not a car in sight for 20 miles. Gotta worry more about smoking a cow or antelope more than a car. And if we see one we don't hit the brakes not jsut because the animal may be more likely to come through the windsheild. But also because the freezer might be running a little low on meatsicles. (Honestly the Police Acadamy in Pierre teaches it's officers to not hit the brakes in the event of a deer strike.

Anyway, Mafesto, They'll be out in force this weekend and next month for sure. Keep an eye out for where they set the porta potties during the day. (hint, hint)

LMFAO, I figured you must've been from SD before I even looked at your location. With the way the geography and rural/urban population is here it's alot different than other places. We may or may not have, booze cruised alot when I was in high school. We'd put 60 miles on a vehicle just driving around on backroads at 20 MPH. LOL It's perfectly safe, nobody's outside, you very rarely meet a car and even if you were to hit a telephone pole I think you'd just bounce off it at 20 MPH.

Moving on,

Maf i hope a drunk like your self hits you right in your drivers door at 70 and then we will see what you think about dwi. or better yet hit your passenger door with your wife siiting there you stupid ****.

You are an assclown. I have met Mafesto in person and he's a damn good guy, he took time out of his work day to build a clutch tool for my Team secondary and I didn't even know him at that time. I can tell just from meeting him that he is one of those people that thinks of others before himself. The world needs more people like that.