Observations, My 09' XP 154" & The Behemoth M1000.

[Chazmanian]

We still dont have much snow in Colorado.....That being said instead pf my XP being in noice deep fluff where it belongs? Irs been on crapppy trails and a few spots with some marginal snow.

Picked up a buddys new 2009 M1000 leftover yesterday and headed up to Corona pass.

His 1000 had a can installed and some high altitude clutching setup at the dealership.....He got a pretty derned good deal. $8500 for a new fresh outta the crate 09. He then had them take one of those new style seats off a 2010 sled.

We took the "Big Pig" and my XP up to some snow...

The more miles my XP gets the faster it getting. I will admit that when he fired up that big one liter monster it shook the very ground on which I stood and had me wondering...Man those Cats just sound fast dont they?.

We took off up the trail in search of some snow that was decent. Heat cycled his a few times then switched sleds.

All I can say is that I'm glad I ride an XP. The M series ergos are wierd for me and I prompted canned my knee into the bulkhead of the big "M" and the thing felt downright spooky on the trail....I'm sure the M's shine in the powder but I would rather eat my own poop than spend anymore time than required on the trail with that thing. Its schetchy and likes to grab ruts and shoot funky directions. The M sleds suspension sucked bad on the trail. It did feel fast ad all heck though....Pulled outta the hole like a top fuel dragster complete with massive uncontrollable track spin!

I will say this for that big beast though...It has more off idle Tq and power than should be allowed by law. The clutching sucks as it essentially an On/Off switch.

Being men we lined em' up. A buncha times.

Score for the little guy here as my Rooster Built clutching and Big John recommended motor tweaks made his big 1000 an easy kill outta the hole and I could easily pull and hold him 3-4 sleds lengths until letting off the flapper. The big M couldnt ever pull me outta the hole I suppose if we had more real esdtate he would reel me in though....Drag racing mountain sleds in fields and trails? Life is crap without real snow I guess?

The one thing we both agreed on....That Rooster built clutching is simply astoundingly good in any scenario and the snap Via the RK Tek head is pronounced. My buddy has ridden stock XP and isnt a fan due to what he calls "Schoolmarm Handling Traits" yet proclaimed that my lightly modded XP was hands down the fastest he had ridden and was in awe of the Rooster Built clutching and smooth trails manner Via my Fox zero pro setup.

He bought the M1000 with a goal of building one of those 195HP belt eating Mountain Hawgs.....At 250 pounds he probably made a good choice and my days of having my XP in front of his 1000 are certainly numbered.

Score for the Lil' XP in our riding scenario yesterday as the Summits are very adaptable to trail and general "Dinking Around".

Today we are heading up to Cottonwood pass itching for some snow thats deeper with a buddy on a highly modded older Edge chassised Poo.

I hope we find some derned snow as this trail riding stuff is getting old fast.

I'm feeling better and better on my XP on each ensuing ride. Like this sled just feels....Right!

The M series sleds seem almost huge compared to the XP....And to think they put 600 motors in these big bastages!

 

[mynewuseddoo]

Right on Chaz!!! Your gonna love the XP once you start getting some real snow and once again it will feel better than the cat in the powder also. I find that Doo's feel like a much more quality built ride all around than the "other guys" LOL. Exept yammy but they barely fit into the snowmobile category anyway The POO's especialy feel very cheaply made and just not right. Tiny running boards that love to hold snow, wake up and copy someone elses running board design!!! Maybe Burandt will help them with that. Sounds like your loving your XP though. Not sure if you want to hear this but we've got tons of snow up in British Columbia Unfortunately I'm working in Russia right now so I am dreaming of getting the machine out on real snow as well. Have a good winter and keep kicking some Cat and POO arse!!!!

 

[Maximum1]

Could you explain the Big John recommended motor tweaks

 

[snowmobiler]

it hard to say if your mods did any good yet because every stock xp spanks the 1000 out of the hole.stiff track makes the doo a rocket on the trails and the 1000 cant get the twice the hp to hookup.better get used to seeing the cats snowflap now

 

[Chazmanian]

Could you explain the Big John recommended motor tweaks

Well in a nutshell I called Big John as I like supporting vendors who support this site and take the time to post and converse with us "Little Guys" who drive this industry!

I asked Big John at Sled Head Racing Here:http://www.sledheadracing.net/

What I should do to my bone stock new 09' to hang as my riding buddies are all on fast sleds this year.

I told him I wasnt ready to big bore......Yet.

He suggested and gave me a great deal on the following package:
RK Tek Billet head.
HPS Can.
450 Mains, shimmmed needles.
20T gear.
SLP Intake.

I did all the above and based on a buddies experience and some info gleaned here added the Rooster Built clutch setup as well.

My sled rips with these relatively minor inexpensive home installed mods.

We have some top notch vendors on this site that not only sell great products....These guys are there and available via phone to walk you through the setup and everything!

This place? Is a great resource for us sledders looking for "Lil' Mo" than stock or looking to go huge and wild...Hence I support those who support this forum at any given oppourtunity.

 

[Chazmanian]

it hard to say if your mods did any good yet because every stock xp spanks the 1000 out of the hole.stiff track makes the doo a rocket on the trails and the 1000 cant get the twice the hp to hookup.better get used to seeing the cats snowflap now

Yeah....He has already called the Vohk guys in Kremmling....My days of giving that big Cat the buisness are very numbered.

On a positive note though?

The big cat lives in my garage, is MSO'ed in my name and I'm a half owner.

 

[raceya68]

I feel the same way about the cats too! The seem very big compared to an xp. The look nice but they just wouldn't fit me at all.

 

[vdog0531]

hmm... i've experienced much different results. my pops has an 08 x model xp with slp head, exhaust and clutching. last year when my 09 m1000 sno pro was all stock, we were dead even racing down the road and up hard packed hills. he weights 160 and i'm 250. i was very not impressed. i figured he should have killed me. The xp does climb better in a straight line.... i gotta give him that. As far as off trail boondockin on sidehillin... this will be the last year he rides his xp. He will be sellin for a m8 next year. I must admit the xp is a much better trail sled than my m1000. the m series hates the road but more than makes up for it off trail.

it's good to hear you are happy with your sled though! Nothin beats spendin all that money on one of these machines and then having it beat your exptations!

Vernon

 

[Chazmanian]

He will be sellin for a m8 next year. I must admit the xp is a much better trail sled than my m1000. the m series hates the road but more than makes up for it off trail.

This is the very reason I had nary an issue with paying for almost half of that sled, having it MOS'ed in my name and keeping it in my garage.

Just in case ya' know!!

But I will say this....I cant see how a bone stock stocker M1000 stayed even with an XP. Mine is just way-way faster outta the hole and seems to hook up much better.

Soon as the big M1000 is clutched, piped, and tweakered on tho?

That thing will be insanity.

$8500.00 on that 2009 M1000 new outta the crate was a heckuva buy IMO.

Buddy is pulling up to the house as I type...

Later Gents! Headed up to find some snow!

 

[mrquick68]

hmmm. i used to ride an m1000.

trail dragging racing won't tell ya that much. the xp's have stiffer tracks than the base 80 duro cats (the HCR has a 90 duro and would be a closer race). Agreed though, cat's aren't that good on the trail! that rear skid can be made to shine though for about $200. In fact, no one makes a better skid OEM IMO.

you should've got a 162" in the 1000 though... that 153" will spin damn fast with the right mods on it though. i had consistent track speeds in the low to mid 50s.

 

[vdog0531]

This is the very reason I had nary an issue with paying for almost half of that sled, having it MOS'ed in my name and keeping it in my garage.

Just in case ya' know!!

But I will say this....I cant see how a bone stock stocker M1000 stayed even with an XP. Mine is just way-way faster outta the hole and seems to hook up much better.

Soon as the big M1000 is clutched, piped, and tweakered on tho?

That thing will be insanity.

$8500.00 on that 2009 M1000 new outta the crate was a heckuva buy IMO.

Buddy is pulling up to the house as I type...

Later Gents! Headed up to find some snow!

i'm not sure i understand the first part of this post but yes i agree, i am very shocked how close are two sleds are when just drag racing. I have an extreme weight dis advantage and he has mods. The thing that also makes me think that your friends particular m1000 seems a little slow is because my pops always races other xp's we see and the only ones he has lost to was a 860 big bore and one runnin nitrous. I dont want to turn this into a m1000 is faster than xp thread, i just am going off my personal experience. My pops and i dont really care about who's faster but obviously when we ride together, we always line up for fun. With my cutlers torsional secondary, ligthweight speedwerx tunnel dump can and boss seat, it should give me a little bit of an advantage. my sled is now lighter and has better backshifting and upshifting so i'm excited to compare the two again this year. i'm interested to see how your buddies 1000 is after it's initial break in period too.

Also, i dont want you to think i'm bashin the xp, i had a zx summit, a rev and an xp before my m1000 so i do like ski doo. After clockin 500 miles on the m1000 from march to june, i don't see myself going back to doo though. Crazy how my m1000 which has a legit 50 plus pounds on my dad's xp feels lighter on a hillside.

 

[vdog0531]

p.s. my m1000 is also a 162 which helps hook up off the line with all the torque.

 

[tukernater]

can't tell much from drag racing on the road, does climb better in a straight pull,I think its funny we always compare are 800"s against cats 1000,should they be close NO ,BUT ARE THEY? YES STOCK ON STOCK CLUTCHING ONLY 3-5 TIMES were i live the XP'S wins climbing and drag racing,that being said i have seen some real fast cats ,but the cat guy's here? always say it stock then you find out its a big bore or something,are cat dealer hides so much stuff ,stock rap on after market pipe, diffrent y pipes boondocker boxes [hid] reeds,airbocks mods then they lets people try it in the mountains,and it will work good ,so they buy one and are pissed cause it not near what they rode the weekend before,but every brand has theres good ones and bad ones, the key is to set it up for you riding style Ive got 09-800-summitx146 and a renagade 08-600x 146 cudney head and i sidehill it no problem,i'm in a wheel chair so it tells me that some people need to spend sometime on set up front shocks,sway bar,rear skid,seat 2010 seats for me little taller.i trade with my buddy somtimes, CAT i find them sketchy on the trail,but not set for my weight 255# ya big [phat] for a guy in a chair ,ski pressure is a big thing for me.

 

[vdog0531]

can't tell much from drag racing on the road, does climb better in a straight pull,I think its funny we always compare are 800"s against cats 1000,should they be close NO ,BUT ARE THEY? YES STOCK ON STOCK CLUTCHING ONLY 3-5 TIMES were i live the XP'S wins climbing and drag racing,that being said i have seen some real fast cats ,but the cat guy's here? always say it stock then you find out its a big bore or something,are cat dealer hides so much stuff ,stock rap on after market pipe, diffrent y pipes boondocker boxes [hid] reeds,airbocks mods then they lets people try it in the mountains,and it will work good ,so they buy one and are pissed cause it not near what they rode the weekend before,but every brand has theres good ones and bad ones, the key is to set it up for you riding style Ive got 09-800-summitx146 and a renagade 08-600x 146 cudney head and i sidehill it no problem,i'm in a wheel chair so it tells me that some people need to spend sometime on set up front shocks,sway bar,rear skid,seat 2010 seats for me little taller.i trade with my buddy somtimes, CAT i find them sketchy on the trail,but not set for my weight 255# ya big [phat] for a guy in a chair ,ski pressure is a big thing for me.

well i can assure you mine was all stock last year when i runnin my pops xp. oh wait... i lied. I had side vents and an orange belly pan. That must have been what put me ahead ANY dealer who has a "demo" sled has mods on it to make it shine better. not just one particular brand. And yes, the m1000 is compared with the 800 xp due to weight. Nobody denys that the xp is one hell of a light sled. It is a very quality sled. But just as a m series isnt' for you, an xp isn't for everyone either

Vernon

 

[winter brew]

Chaz, wait until the snow gets deep, that's where your sled should REALLY shine. Glad it's working good for you! Don't be afraid of the mightly M1000, even with mods it will be close.

 

[tukernater]

maybe i said it wrong, what i was really getting at was set your sled up for your riding style ,but are doo dealer leaves there 1 sled stock ,and one clutched,thats it no pipes or anything ,that way you know what your getting,but i think if we had a better dealer CAT i bet i could get very comfy on a cat too probly M8 2010 ,the 800vs 1000 thing is funny because ive seen the doo 1000 get beat by m8's to ,so why not race the 800 vs 800 and 1000 vs 1000 weight against weight,torqe vs torqe that all im getting at, not bashing cat they all have there places were one shines more than the other.you know the old saying EVERY CAT HAS ITS DAY no punt intended.

 

[vdog0531]

maybe i said it wrong, what i was really getting at was set your sled up for your riding style ,but are doo dealer leaves there 1 sled stock ,and one clutched,thats it no pipes or anything ,that way you know what your getting,but i think if we had a better dealer CAT i bet i could get very comfy on a cat too probly M8 2010 ,the 800vs 1000 thing is funny because ive seen the doo 1000 get beat by m8's to ,so why not race the 800 vs 800 and 1000 vs 1000 weight against weight,torqe vs torqe that all im getting at, not bashing cat they all have there places were one shines more than the other.you know the old saying EVERY CAT HAS ITS DAY no punt intended.

1: nobody else offers a two stroke thousand so everyone takes the top from each company and puts them against each other 2: i'm very excited to see 2010 m8 up against a 2010 xp

 

[mrquick68]

can't tell much from drag racing on the road, does climb better in a straight pull,I think its funny we always compare are 800"s against cats 1000,should they be close NO ,BUT ARE THEY? YES STOCK ON STOCK CLUTCHING ONLY 3-5 TIMES were i live the XP'S wins climbing and drag racing,that being said i have seen some real fast cats ,but the cat guy's here? always say it stock then you find out its a big bore or something,are cat dealer hides so much stuff ,stock rap on after market pipe, diffrent y pipes boondocker boxes [hid] reeds,airbocks mods then they lets people try it in the mountains,and it will work good ,so they buy one and are pissed cause it not near what they rode the weekend before,but every brand has theres good ones and bad ones, the key is to set it up for you riding style Ive got 09-800-summitx146 and a renagade 08-600x 146 cudney head and i sidehill it no problem,i'm in a wheel chair so it tells me that some people need to spend sometime on set up front shocks,sway bar,rear skid,seat 2010 seats for me little taller.i trade with my buddy somtimes, CAT i find them sketchy on the trail,but not set for my weight 255# ya big [phat] for a guy in a chair ,ski pressure is a big thing for me.

dude - major props to you for gettin' out there on a sled given your need for a wheelchair. That's just bad a$$ man.

 

[Highmarker]

i'm not sure i understand the first part of this post but yes i agree, i am very shocked how close are two sleds are when just drag racing. I have an extreme weight dis advantage and he has mods. The thing that also makes me think that your friends particular m1000 seems a little slow is because my pops always races other xp's we see and the only ones he has lost to was a 860 big bore and one runnin nitrous. I dont want to turn this into a m1000 is faster than xp thread, i just am going off my personal experience. My pops and i dont really care about who's faster but obviously when we ride together, we always line up for fun. With my cutlers torsional secondary, ligthweight speedwerx tunnel dump can and boss seat, it should give me a little bit of an advantage. my sled is now lighter and has better backshifting and upshifting so i'm excited to compare the two again this year. i'm interested to see how your buddies 1000 is after it's initial break in period too.

Also, i dont want you to think i'm bashin the xp, i had a zx summit, a rev and an xp before my m1000 so i do like ski doo. After clockin 500 miles on the m1000 from march to june, i don't see myself going back to doo though. Crazy how my m1000 which has a legit 50 plus pounds on my dad's xp feels lighter on a hillside.

If you think this gave you the edge in a race....it is obvious you don't know anything about sleds. They mean pretty much nothing.

 

[vdog0531]

If you think this gave you the edge in a race....it is obvious you don't know anything about sleds. They mean pretty much nothing.

i suppose losing 25 pounds off the sled and adding a torsional secondary kit to my clutch won't help performance this year at all. You're right! weight means nothing on snowmobiles. I appreciate you clearing this up for me and everyone else.