Obamacare

[ruffryder]

WyoBoy,

Your response reminds me of a stump speech from a politician. It says all the right things, allows us to stand on our high moral ground, allows us to blame the problem on those that we think are less than us (lazy poor people), but doesn't say anything meaningful and has little to do with actually tackling the problem at hand (high health care costs).

Carry on..

 

[WyoBoy1000]

WyoBoy,

Your response reminds me of a stump speech from a politician. It says all the right things, allows us to stand on our high moral ground, allows us to blame the problem on those that we think are less than us (lazy poor people), but doesn't say anything meaningful and has little to do with actually tackling the problem at hand (high health care costs).

Carry on..

Now its a fools argument,

I am not blaming others, I will take all the blame if you want, I am saying we/me have to fix the root prob. That requires a different level of thinking. If you start from the ground up it will fix the problem.

For example, I have had friends, roommates, and others complain about everything and how broke they where and there relationship failed. After getting sick of it I told them to come work for me for a while and they can make a few bucks to help get by. Some don't come and stay losers, eventual some do. I have a body shop so some of the work is tedious, some hard and some easy. They tell me they don't have a clue how to do that work, I tell them not to worry because I know how. Some just show up and losers talk themselves out of it. So the ones that did show have never made it more than 3 days, the majority of them, find another job in that amount of time (something they would rather do) and its because working and getting something for it gave them motivation and pride. (most gained relationships also)
So in 3 days they went from a parasite on life to a contributor. One or two quit after or before the 3 days and remained losers for a while. (its gonna happen)
The same could be said for me at some point in my life, I am not judging or blaming here, (other than the control seekers) I think everything in my life happened and happens because of me, not anyone else.

If we targeted that aspect of life and self discipline the health care industry would be cut over 50%.

If you think, we could pass this or do this and make it better. It's may make it better for the short term but I guaranty we aren't that smart.

I don't care what you or they "try" to cut or fix etc.... its a waste without fixing the root and I'm working on the bigger picture.


(If you can't take what I am saying and figure out what I am relaying or trying to say I am not going to be able to explain it)

In plan words, Obomacare should be shredded, lawsuits should stop, etc... and start working on mental health.

 

[ruffryder]

Wyo,

So how do you solve the problem of the inefficiencies of the health care system being run under 3 different and separate systems (employer provided, individual market, and govt sponsored)?

How do you solve the problem of lack of price signals for doctors and patients? How do you solve the incorrect incentives for doctors, insurance companies, and hospitals? (unhealthy people mean more services and more profits)
How do you solve the problem of lack of ability for people that don't have insurance provided by their companies to get insurance with pre-existing conditions?

There are a lot of problems with the health care system that doesn't get touched with what you are stating. Though what you state would make a big difference in society and peoples lives as a whole...

 

[POLZIN]

It is interesting how much people seem to state how to fix the system when it seems they don't even have a full picture of what the entire system is.

QUOTE]

Your the expert calling for the end of the dedutions for business'.

How long have you owned a business? NEVER. So how full is your picture ?

I would love to talk to you after a few years in business to see how your perspective on the world would change.

 

[ruffryder]

The ending of the tax deductions for health care has nothing to do with the operation of a business, from the standpoint of the health care system.

There is no reason why my company should provide health care for me, besides it is tax deductible. They don't provide me with car insurance, or anything else.

The deduction was a fluke in our tax code that has brought about this messed up grouping of different health care systems and markets.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If you did what I stated over and over again, it would fix itself. Goes along with being responsible. Your looking at the finish line but don't even know where the race is, and your at the wrong track.

Like I said, I can't help if you can't get it from what I already stated.


(Just think it through for a while and try to understand, ask yourself, what if wyo is right, lets just think of it for a while weather right or wrong and consider just how and how fast it could play out) When I am told something that what I do.

Someone told me they want gun control, I said no way, then in a few minutes explained how it would have to play out and what would have to happen. Well what I said 4 years ago is happening faster than I thought possible.

 

[polaris dude]

The root

To many lazy a$$ that wont get off the couch (we bought) and work.
Supervise -- here is a coffee can, fill it tell it over flows with cigarette butts and you this much $$, so in a hr or two they come back and show you its full. No supervising, wtf

I don't care what they do but they don't need supervised and if they don't do the job they can go live under bridge, you have to let people take responsibility at some point, you can't force it. So why are they forcing the responsible to take care of the deadbeats. = hoping we will give up to and they gain more control.

If you think you are a victim, you are the problem. If anyone tries to tell you you can't or you are a victim, walk away, you don't want to listen to those people. take responsibility. For every last little thing that happens in your life weather good or bad, I do. It will make you stronger.

Start there, and the rest will fall into place. So at this point I don't even want to here a pointless argument. I will and do what I can but in no way does it mean I agree with a single part of the rest of it. Only when you go to the root can you stop the weed.

The part I bolded is communism which is in a way what the USA is becoming. I think right now this whole problem solution thing is kinda fascinating from a socioeconomical perspective.

Now, I think this whole problem is a vicious cycle. The people in office do so by getting the most votes. How do they appeal to the masses? By going to the biggest group they can find and convince them that their being in office is going to benefit them "the people". Who is the minority? The poor naturally because not everyone can be rich and quite frankly right now in the USA it is undeniable that there is getting to be less and less of a middle class and more and more rich or poor. So they appeal to the poor because obviously its a much bigger population to get votes from. So how do they do this? By giving them stuff for being poor basically. So the people in power continuously keep making handouts for these deadbeats because it will win them election and thus they get power and a job. Eventually if we cannot stop this there will essentially be communism

And naturally that is a pretty black and white way to put things because its impossible to give a clear representation of how things work in the USA in a couple paragraphs but I think that's kinda how it works, but if its not who cares its wasted wednesday

 

[winter brew]

Has anyone else here had to deal with L&I? I wonder if the manner in which it is run (dictated by the state) is anything similar to how Obamacare will turn out (assuming it sticks around)??
If so....be scared! VERY scared!

 

[polaris dude]

whats L&I?. I know that on the reservations the gov't spends billions of dollars but the health care is still attrocious.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The part I bolded is communism which is in a way what the USA is becoming. I think right now this whole problem solution thing is kinda fascinating from a socioeconomical perspective.

Now, I think this whole problem is a vicious cycle. The people in office do so by getting the most votes. How do they appeal to the masses? By going to the biggest group they can find and convince them that their being in office is going to benefit them "the people". Who is the minority? The poor naturally because not everyone can be rich and quite frankly right now in the USA it is undeniable that there is getting to be less and less of a middle class and more and more rich or poor. So they appeal to the poor because obviously its a much bigger population to get votes from. So how do they do this? By giving them stuff for being poor basically. So the people in power continuously keep making handouts for these deadbeats because it will win them election and thus they get power and a job. Eventually if we cannot stop this there will essentially be communism

And naturally that is a pretty black and white way to put things because its impossible to give a clear representation of how things work in the USA in a couple paragraphs but I think that's kinda how it works, but if its not who cares its wasted wednesday

But the number of rich is getting larger, you could take that as it means there will be more poor. (thats what they want you to believe) Or that despite there efforts some of us don't listen and keep building, (what I believe) fact is what you believe is how your life will run its course. Don't listen and expand your belief.

Winter Brew,
You hit it, I'm scared, but its not going to stop me.

 

[winter brew]

whats L&I?. I know that on the reservations the gov't spends billions of dollars but the health care is still attrocious.

Dept of Labor and Industries.
If you get injured on the job, your health insurance does not apply...neither does cash! You are at the mercy of the state....govt does NOTHING QUICKLY or EFFICIENTLY. It can take literally 3-6 months to get approval to get an injury diagnosed!!! I have seen this happen consistantly. If they ignore you long enough they hope you just go away. Those that are truly in pain suffer....and there is nothing you can do. The Dr will turn you away without the proper approval. I can see this being the norm if the fed govt gets involved.
10 years ago I went through almost 4 years of hell (physically and mentally) for something that should have taken less than a month.....and they wonder why it's expensive.

 

[ruffryder]

I think the only part of states involvement for Obama care is in the setting up of the exchanges or markets for people that buy their insurance on their own, and for small businesses. I don't think there is much involvement besides that.

I think these exchanges were part of the republicans plan from 10 years or so ago...

part of me is starting to think that insurance itself is a scam... Insurance should be outlawed... I wonder what type of world that would be. It sure would put a significant amount of downward pressure on prices...

 

[polaris dude]

numbers wise, yes there are getting to be more rich, and the percent of rich are also going up. going from 1% wealthy to 5% wealthy is good sure, but when the number of poor goes from 25% to 40% that's more of a problem. It certainly wont affect the way I live my life because I know I have faith in myself and I know I can accomplish great things if I put my mind to it.

 

[polaris dude]

I think the only part of states involvement for Obama care is in the setting up of the exchanges or markets for people that buy their insurance on their own, and for small businesses. I don't think there is much involvement besides that.

I think these exchanges were part of the republicans plan from 10 years or so ago...

part of me is starting to think that insurance itself is a scam... Insurance should be outlawed... I wonder what type of world that would be. It sure would put a significant amount of downward pressure on prices...

I was going to say the same thing. Insurance does make everything more expensive.

 

[ruffryder]

I was going to say the same thing. Insurance does make everything more expensive.

I believe that insurance is forbidden in Muslim countries due to it being a form of gambling... so that means we should do the opposite... lol

 

[winter brew]

I think the only part of states involvement for Obama care is in the setting up of the exchanges or markets for people that buy their insurance on their own, and for small businesses. I don't think there is much involvement besides that.

I think these exchanges were part of the republicans plan from 10 years or so ago...

part of me is starting to think that insurance itself is a scam... Insurance should be outlawed... I wonder what type of world that would be. It sure would put a significant amount of downward pressure on prices...

I can see it changing over time though....it will start as planned by dictating what will and will not be considered "covered" in the basic requirements. Then as cases arise that are not clear, they will begin to dictate how those cases will be addressed. Eventually the insurance co's will want to have everything spelled out by the Govt so that the ins. co. will not be liable. Less liability=more profit. They can blame everything on the feds. That's what happens now with inc co's who deal with L&I....they are 100% dictated by the state in how they address everything. I can't imagine it started out that way, although I may be wrong about that....I don't know the history of it.

 

[winter brew]

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-obamacare-exchanges

 

[ruffryder]

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/no-obamacare-exchanges

It should be clarified that the article in your link was not created by the cato institute and it is not journalism. The article is opinion / commentary, and is listed on the cato website as such...

IMO, the article didn't really do anything or say anything besides Obama care is bad and will end the world..

 

[WyoBoy1000]

I think the only part of states involvement for Obama care is in the setting up of the exchanges or markets for people that buy their insurance on their own, and for small businesses. I don't think there is much involvement besides that.

I think these exchanges were part of the republicans plan from 10 years or so ago...

part of me is starting to think that insurance itself is a scam... Insurance should be outlawed... I wonder what type of world that would be. It sure would put a significant amount of downward pressure on prices...

Get educated, I don't even know where to start. If you think state or GOV involvement is minor. You are in for a surprise. As far as people being able to stay with a provider, that is a ploy, once they get control they will run them out of business in very short order, that has already been established with facts to back it up. Then they will control it all and will control us.
Good thing my GF is a vet, I will get more help from her than obomacare.

numbers wise, yes there are getting to be more rich, and the percent of rich are also going up. going from 1% wealthy to 5% wealthy is good sure, but when the number of poor goes from 25% to 40% that's more of a problem. It certainly wont affect the way I live my life because I know I have faith in myself and I know I can accomplish great things if I put my mind to it.

Thats all we need. No need to pay attention to why or who is rich or not because the overall factors don't count, your statement is what counts.

 

[winter brew]

It should be clarified that the article in your link was not created by the cato institute and it is not journalism. The article is opinion / commentary, and is listed on the cato website as such...

IMO, the article didn't really do anything or say anything besides Obama care is bad and will end the world..

And?