Obamacare

[ruffryder]

Health ins. needs to be open to free enterprise as mentioned . That is not how its done currently either. Competition across state lines needs to be allowed. This would force insurance providers to compete. The way it is now its close to a monopoly in some places Like NM where we have very little choice. All are very expensive and dont seem to cover much

That won't help much at all. As the health insurance company will have little bargaining power with out of state hospitals to reduce their costs if they only have a few out of state people in their plans.

It seems that everyone forgets this issue... There are multiple markets for the health care system. One is people and insurance. The another is insurance and the hospitals.

All the talk about being able to cross state lines won't help much, as the services rendered for care are always local. Very rarely are people willing to go out of their way to seek care. Hospitals know this...

It is interesting how much people seem to state how to fix the system when it seems they don't even have a full picture of what the entire system is.

I like the single payer idea... If health care was completely privatized, and no company discounts were given, I could see that it could become extremely difficult to afford the care required as one ages...

I guess the solution is to just start dieing earlier..

 

[winter brew]

Where I work they are slowly implementing incentives to actually be HEALTHY!! Imagine that....addressing the root cause of a problem...weird!
Those that complete certain programs will pay less for medical coverage. It's more about awareness and education than actualy being healthy, but in the long run I believe (as do the ins co's evidently) that it will lead to people being more responsible for their own well being.

 

[ruffryder]

Where I work they are slowly implementing incentives to actually be HEALTHY!! Imagine that....addressing the root cause of a problem...weird!
Those that complete certain programs will pay less for medical coverage. It's more about awareness and education than actualy being healthy, but in the long run I believe (as do the ins co's evidently) that it will lead to people being more responsible for their own well being.

That is good to see. We need more of it, IMO. I am surprised that companies haven't done more of this sort of thing.

 

[winter brew]

No thread is complete without a AT link!!

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog..._340_billion_to_deficit_over_next_decade.html

 

[polaris dude]

You can already stay on a plan if you are a dependant. Just because it's mandated doesn't mean it will be free....to stay on a plan until the age of 26 means you will have to PAY until the age of 26. Just like now....nothing will be free.
If an employer is paying, then it will cost THEM more. How is that going to effect unemployment figures, bankrupcies, employee pay raises...????
Trust me....in the end, the little guy WILL pay every penny of the costs of their health insurance....just not directly.

I think that's true no matter what happens. But right now with employers footing the bill that makes just as much sense as anything.

 

[TURBOMAN]

Until your dads employer has to lay him off because they can not afford to pay for you until you are 26. Saying that it does not cost anyone to stay on your parents insurance until 26 is dumb. If by 21 and healthy you can not afford your own insurance you are on the wrong path.

America land of the entitlements. I want a nice truck and a new sled but I want my parents employer to pay for my health care. Or I want to go to school for 6 years and have no job but I want everything else everyone else has while doing this. What ever happended to paying for things as you can???

I agree the problem with health care is the cost.

Give a man a fish and feed him for the day, teach a man to fish and feed him for his life.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

huh? So I pay for health insurance? Through medicare/social security?
I don't think the little bit there comes even close to how expensive health insurance is.

The one thing Obama care does is make it possible for you to stay on your parent's plan till age 26.

I could afford it, but quite frankly if I can avoid it then why bother paying for something when I can just as easily stay with my parents and it doesn't cost either me or them a thing?

I'll make this as clear as possible. They planned it this way and hooked you on thinking this way.

You think, well this is a bonus because it helps out, so you argue. (they have just intentionally put you against your own) They are intentionally putting us against each other. This causes arguments which get no where and they get what they want.
By establishing you can stay with your parents for that long gives them control. And don't be fooled it will be paid for out of our pockets.
The other one where someone asked so you support dropping the tax cuts for donators etc.....
Again, another ploy to put us against each other.
But if you step back and look at the root cause of all of it is government involvement.
They teach nothing of self discipline, reliance, ethics, motivation, etc..................................................................................
Why don't they??? ----- because they want control and how are they going to control you if you are in control of your own life.

The root
Why is health care so high -- GOV. REGULATION, Trial layers, etc....

I think we need to branch out and hire are own doctors, cut all the crap, send them to school or further education and give them what they want. Absolutely, no lawsuits, you are not perfect and neither are they. You find one you can trust and pay accordingly. If you don't like that then get off your arse and do something about it.


The key thing to remember is to not buy anything they are saying because its all bs even when it appears good.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Years back
There was a study done and 3-4 people did not need to be in the hospital, the key factor is mental status. If you think your sick, you are.
What does the GOV. do about that, nothing, they actual tell us we need health care because we will be. But I know plenty of people who are sick and you would never know. Even some very successful, powerful and rich people, they didn't get where they are worrying about being sick or if they had health care.
Key factors are how you feel, (what do you tell yourself) Mental and physical health is very important. Ask yourself, do you feel good, if not, change it. Even if I don't feel good at the moment I always try to find ways or things to think about that make me feel better. There is always a positive to take from even the worst scenario, but if you are always thinking about feeling good, you will never see the worst scenario.

 

[winter brew]

I think that's true no matter what happens. But right now with employers footing the bill that makes just as much sense as anything.

Employers are people too. There are a lot of people on this forum that employ others and contribute to their employees medical premiums.
Suppose your father was an employer.....and suddenly he was required to pay more for a longer period of time for all his employees....perhaps having to now choose between keeping his business and being able to pay for YOUR college?....all so his employees children can have medical coverage until THEY are 26.

 

[polaris dude]

I see what your saying winter brew. One thing I will point out is that they aren't paying for anyone's college, but yes you are correct. Regardless isn't that the point of a benefit though? I can see what you are all saying, I'm just curious what the alternative is that would be better.

 

[ruffryder]

I see what your saying winter brew. One thing I will point out is that they aren't paying for anyone's college, but yes you are correct. Regardless isn't that the point of a benefit though? I can see what you are all saying, I'm just curious what the alternative is that would be better.

Single payer, or remove the employer tax deduction, remove all medicare and medicade.

They might be considered two extremes, but I look at them as very similar. One of the big problems with health care is that everyone is shielded from the costs. The doctors don't even know how much stuff costs. For an industry that is so big in our economy, it seems like not many people pay attention to what is going on with the costs, except for when insurance premiums increase..

 

[Mafesto]

Here is an example of business as usual as the system is today....

You go into the Dr & he listens to your symptoms & checks yo over.
He is 90% sure what the problem is, but still runs thousands of dollars in tests because he has to cover his a__.

Not so many years ago you family Dr could set broken bones, deliver babies, perform minor procedures etc, but now they send everything out to specialists so they can manage their liable exposure.

Everyone would love to win the lottery but few can.
However, if your physician screws up...well you got a golden ticket & your gonna cash it in!

Too many fu_kers in the world!

 

[sandorsnow]

I lean pretty heavily to one side of this argument because of my background, but here it is:

I've been self employed since 13 yrs old. Never had a job, I don't know how to be an employee. I currently employ 14 people.

It is a constant up hill battle to stay in business. Any joker can open a business, but lets see you stay in business. Every year my work load goes up but profit margins go down, and 90% of this is due to govt control, regulation and meddling. I am currently working on a govt contract (first and last). We literally can only work 4hrs out of an 8hr day due to the meetings, paperwork, red tape etc..(mostly job justification, spend $10 to track $1)

Employees that give a crap and actually want to earn their paycheck are all but impossible to find. They were flat broke, being evicted, and had bills to pay when I hired them, but put 1 or 2 paychecks in their pocket and suddenly they've forgotten all that. Work becomes a 2nd fiddle.

We all need to be cut off from the teet. Pull our pants up and stop looking for a hand out.

I've worked my a$$ of my entire life. Everything I own, I've earned with my blood sweat and tears.

I personally don't like being told I have to get or provide insurance. If I want insurance, I'll choose the one I want. Then I get to choose the doctors, hospitals, etc..

Insurance is not an american "right", if you want a "right" go earn it.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

X2!
Here is something that should be considered, sorry for the long post but worth it IMO.

WRITTEN BY A 21 YEAR OLD FEMALE

I say put her on the 2012 Ballot...............

I am going to let Newt know we have found him a VP from Texas that truly understands the situation at hand.

Wow, this girl has a great plan! Love the last thing she would do the best.

This was written by a 21 yr old female who gets it. It's her future
she's worried about and this is how she feels about the social welfare big government state that she's being forced to live in! These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.

This was in the Waco Tribune Herald, Waco, TX, Nov 18, 2011

PUT ME IN CHARGE . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of Lone Star cards; no cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50-pound bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicaid. The first thing I'd do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal legations. Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, or smoke, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?

You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair.
Your home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the "common good.."

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov't subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes, that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov't welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

Now, if you have the guts - PASS IT ON...

 

[Scott]

Let's put that girl in the next debate.

 

[polaris dude]

Whoever that is I applaud them.

 

[ruffryder]

So whats her brilliant plan for Obama care... isn't that what we are talking about here?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

So whats her brilliant plan for Obama care... isn't that what we are talking about here?

really, thats your question after reading that. if you can't take 1+1=2 you are not contributing to the argument, only bringing it down. You should take offense to that. (But I would keep that offense in this thread only, I don't mean to offend you in any other way)

per say
the plan is that if you want something, you have to work for it or you don't get it. Even if it means picking up cigarette butts on the street. You put all those lazy a$$ people that are sitting around thinking someone else or there parents employer should pay for it to work and we would have heII of a lot to show for it.
AND
they would be more motivated to go get a real job that gives them benefits of self reliance and BANG, you have one less person feeding off of us.

 

[ruffryder]

the plan is that if you want something, you have to work for it or you don't get it. Even if it means picking up cigarette butts on the street. You put all those lazy a$$ people that are sitting around thinking someone else or there parents employer should pay for it to work and we would have heII of a lot to show for it.
AND
they would be more motivated to go get a real job that gives them benefits of self reliance and BANG, you have one less person feeding off of us.

The problem with health care is not children that get coverage from their parents or Medicaid.. There are many fundamental problems with our health care systems in the US. To think the problems will disappear with the ladies points is to not understand the complexity of the problem.

Though I do agree with her, well some of it anyways. I wonder how much it would cost to put people to work picking up trash on the side of the road. How much it would cost to supervise the work, transportation of workers, and so on.

I much prefer the idea of govt subsidizing workers instead of taxing companies for them. I like the idea that companies only provide you with a paycheck, don't do anything for your retirement, don't do anything for your health insurance. It would make all companies large and small more equal and able to compete.. Hmmm I wonder why large companies favor some of these regulations.. Little bit of protectionism built into the system these days against small businesses that are the number 1 employer of the US. But anyways, that is a subject for another time.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

The root

To many lazy a$$ that wont get off the couch (we bought) and work.
Supervise -- here is a coffee can, fill it tell it over flows with cigarette butts and you this much $$, so in a hr or two they come back and show you its full. No supervising, wtf

I don't care what they do but they don't need supervised and if they don't do the job they can go live under bridge, you have to let people take responsibility at some point, you can't force it. So why are they forcing the responsible to take care of the deadbeats. = hoping we will give up to and they gain more control.

If you think you are a victim, you are the problem. If anyone tries to tell you you can't or you are a victim, walk away, you don't want to listen to those people. take responsibility. For every last little thing that happens in your life weather good or bad, I do. It will make you stronger.

Start there, and the rest will fall into place. So at this point I don't even want to here a pointless argument. I will and do what I can but in no way does it mean I agree with a single part of the rest of it. Only when you go to the root can you stop the weed.