Obama the socialist - revisitied...

[TBWdracula2003]

why dont they just come out and say what the hell there going to do?

most people would probably like it better than all this cover up crap. as far as im concerned if i ever see barack hussein osama in person ill do the best i can to make sure he doesent ever take another breath

 

[ruffryder]

That's 5% income tax, and 6.2% payroll tax.

Even he knows he can't get true socialism overnight. It's the trend he wants to set. His stated goal is to spread the wealth around. The 5% is just the start. He's going to buy the poor vote. No better than buying votes, just he's going to use tax payer money instead of his own.

I don't hear him saying he's going to make the country stronger, just take from the rich and give to the poor. Great, in 4 years, we'll get back together and see what the return on investment is. Something tells me, the gain will be negative, and the investment will bankrupt us. The poor are a "very large gravitational singularity" you can poor money in. (wouldn't want to be accused of being racist)

A better question Ruffy, why aren't you outraged?

Taxation without proportional representation. Hmmmm, where's the tea?

Isn't this interesting, McCain fought communism most of his life, and now he's running against one.

I don't view this as just another little step towards socialism... I view this as improving the life of the average working class American.. Seems a lot of people think if we give a little, he will take a lot, and all our rights go down from there...

Question for you... what do you think Obama thinks about markets and how they work? What do you think he thinks about capitalism and the drive for the almighty dollar? Do you think he is completely against him? I don't, and don't see how any person could be against them... (note I didn't say pure capitalism in there...)

 

[Wade]

I don't view this as just another little step towards socialism... I view this as improving the life of the average working class American.. Seems a lot of people think if we give a little, he will take a lot, and all our rights go down from there...

Question for you... what do you think Obama thinks about markets and how they work? What do you think he thinks about capitalism and the drive for the almighty dollar? Do you think he is completely against him? I don't, and don't see how any person could be against them... (note I didn't say pure capitalism in there...)

Improving the life of working middle class. That's a target, that can never be reached. You can always improve people's lives. Another words, even if you put them all up at the Ritz, there's still things we could do to improve their lives, like free backrubs. So, to what end? Improved as compared to some third world countries, or some Star Trek episode?

Where do you see him improving the average working middle class. Most of his efforts are targeted at sub $50K people, with most benefits going to sub $32K. The benefits get bigger the further down you go. If he's concerned about the working middle class, why so many programs for the non-working? Shouldn't this be a bell curve centered above "Middle Class"?

What about improving the upper middle class's life. Or do we not get to share the American dream? American French Revolution, let's chop the heads off all the successful people.

China is a communist country, that wants markets, and money. They just suppress the people's freedoms. I don't think communism has anything to do with a lack of greed.

If he wanted to improve the working middle class, by making America stronger, and creating good paying jobs, i'd be all for it. But, I've seen with my own two eyes, welfare does not make a better person. It just de-motivates potentially good people.

 

[swampwater]

People that call him socialist think this is a capitalist society still.... It isn't any more and it hasn't been for a long while.... wake up people! That or just correct your use of words..

Ruufy you actually said something I agree with. The Federal government has been gradually eliminating pure capitalism for over a hundred years, two of the most destructive actions are the Federal Reserve System and the graduated income tax, both planks of the communist manifesto, and why Baron Von Rothchild stated " He does not care who runs the country, only who controls the currency." Since than the actions of FDR followed by the Great Society of LBJ and on and on and on. It is amazing the dreams of the american enterprenaur are surviving the eforts of the socialists/marxists to take from one to give to another. And it is precisely clear your Obama has spent most of his life surronding himself with avid marxist lenonist and radical muslim terrorist operatives. Read if you can from a democratic blogger who still understands the truth. Swampy

http://http://globallabor.blogspot.com/2008/06/that-guy-who-lives-in-my-neighborhood.html

 

[bonz50]

People that call him socialist think this is a capitalist society still.... It isn't any more and it hasn't been for a long while.... wake up people! That or just correct your use of words..

but why go even further toward communism by voting for someone who has already admitted that is the direction he wants to go??

from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. welcome to russia circa 1925

 

[ruffryder]

but why go even further toward communism by voting for someone who has already admitted that is the direction he wants to go??

Because I think it is a better direction to go, then the opposite direction...

I guess it come down to the fact that I fear big business more then I fear big government. That seems to be the central disagreement as to which direction you think we need to go....

 

[Wade]

Because I think it is a better direction to go, then the opposite direction...

I guess it come down to the fact that I fear big business more then I fear big government. That seems to be the central disagreement as to which direction you think we need to go....

There are finite resources. Spend the resources on people that want to better themselves, not expect more free handouts. Raise the hard working middle classes chances of improving their lives, and finding better jobs. Don't slide towards the shiny lights of government dependence. You'll just end up with a broken society.

If your scared of big business, change the laws to make big business scared of people, who's money they lost. They wouldn't have done this, if saw other CEO's go to prison for gross negligence with people retirement funds. Won't hurt if a couple of them ended up meeting a group of boomers in a dark alley.

 

[highmtn]

Does big government produce a marketable product? No. It consumes cash to provide jobs to people who create more rules and regs to enforce so they can justify their existence. What ever happened to the premise that if you wanted to earn more money or have a better job, you worked hard for it?

 

[ruffryder]

Does big government produce a marketable product? No. It consumes cash to provide jobs to people who create more rules and regs to enforce so they can justify their existence. What ever happened to the premise that if you wanted to earn more money or have a better job, you worked hard for it?

Marketable product? How about providing the market in the first place? How about providing a stable market? How about providing a fair method of trade (in comparison to having no government at all) How about providing a safe environment for trade... You seem to be forgetting the big stuff that government has a hand in....

That premise is a crock used by people that have money to explain why there are people that don't. It is a complete bs argument...

 

[ruffryder]

There are finite resources. Spend the resources on people that want to better themselves, not expect more free handouts. Raise the hard working middle classes chances of improving their lives, and finding better jobs. Don't slide towards the shiny lights of government dependence. You'll just end up with a broken society.

I am not interested in Obama for what he wants to do for the very poor. I am more interested in what he wants to do for the middle class. Health care is a big one... and becoming an huge burdon for the working man.

We have seen that 40 percent argument about those that have no federal income tax burdon. It seems that most assume those to be poor people, living off of the system.. but that is an assumption and I think the real percentage of poor people living off the system is quite small.

What is all in that 40 percent?
Vets? Vets with dissabilities? Single parents providing for a family? Retirees? I think this question about who the 40 percent actually is and the percentage make up of it should be answered, before we assume that Obama's plan is mostly going to be chucking large sums of money at those that feed off the system......

 

[Burndown1]

Is Ruffy a Business owner? Or is Ruffy a Poor little rich boy? Trust fund baby, or worked for what you got.

 

[Ollie]

Government creates the illusion that you need government to exist, when in fact govenment needs you to exist. Government creates nothing, they don't create jobs,the need creates the jobs. If govenment didn't exist, the need would still be there, it would just be filled by enterprising people that would do the jobs for less than the government.

If there was no government, do you think we would have millions on welfare?
Nope, they would either starve to death or get off their azzes and get jobs. My bet would be they would get jobs.

 

[bonz50]

Because I think it is a better direction to go, then the opposite direction...

I guess it come down to the fact that I fear big business more then I fear big government. That seems to be the central disagreement as to which direction you think we need to go....

ya, it does, and I trust biz more than govt, biz can't oppress my rights in ways like the govt can... govt SCARES me with its ability to control my life... biz? not so much, I choose not to patronize them and then they have no direct control over my life/decisions

 

[ruffryder]

Is Ruffy a Business owner? Or is Ruffy a Poor little rich boy? Trust fund baby, or worked for what you got.

None of the above.... If I say I worked for everything that I own it would be a lie... Many, many people have helped me get to where I have gotten, especially my parents. People have given me opportunity... opportunity to work, opportunity to go to school, opportunity to learn, opportunity to better myself..... To say I did it all on my own would be a disrespect to their help.

Trust fund baby? Only if you mean trust in that I am choosing my path in life, and that I have earned their trust!

 

[ruffryder]

ya, it does, and I trust biz more than govt, biz can't oppress my rights in ways like the govt can... govt SCARES me with its ability to control my life... biz? not so much, I choose not to patronize them and then they have no direct control over my life/decisions

You should tell that to people that have lost their retirements do to financial decisions of big business. People that have lost their jobs at 50 to be replaced by younger workers because they cost the business more in salary and retirement.... Tell that to everyone with the whole 401K crap that ended up reducing the net salary of most if not every worker with a retirement plan... Tell that to the people that are suffering from trying to afford correct medical care for loved ones, and can't....

I don't want govt to control my life either... though I find the argument interesting from a conservative standpoint... since they want to put more laws into effect about the way people live their lives...

 

[ruffryder]

Government creates the illusion that you need government to exist, when in fact govenment needs you to exist. Government creates nothing, they don't create jobs.

You are correct until that last point. I would argue government is needed when society no longer wants / needs to take care of it's own.

Back in small community/tribal life styles, the community took care of everyone, period. That is how they survived. Nowadays, there isn't any issue with crushing your fellow man to get ahead.

 

[COGrizzly]

Government creates the illusion that you need government to exist, when in fact govenment needs you to exist. Government creates nothing, they don't create jobs,the need creates the jobs. If govenment didn't exist, the need would still be there, it would just be filled by enterprising people that would do the jobs for less than the government.

If there was no government, do you think we would have millions on welfare?
Nope, they would either starve to death or get off their azzes and get jobs. My bet would be they would get jobs.

I lived in a major metro area for 5 years (MPLS) and saw how many people take advantage of so many different programs....and I'm sure you've heard a lot of the stories, women intentionally having more children to get more money, people intentionally on unemployment for 2 years, etc etc. So, we really should get rid of these programs that continue to coddle people. However, we do need a Government on a basic level for too many reason to mention.
Ollie, it sounds as if you want no government at all period. Is that the case?

 

[tech a]

Ruffy....It sounds like you have worked hard and studied hard at school to get to where you are today...Do you know anyone that you work with that does just enough to get by? In school was there anyone that barely passed?

Now, how will you feel when all those types of people get the same pay as you? Is this fair? If you answered NO to the last question, welcome to the REPUBLICAN party!

btw, are you a union member? If so, exactly how has the democratic party helped you? Union members typically work for larger companies (small ones
can't afford them). So by voting for the party that wants to increase taxes on large companies, you are cutting your own job opportunities. These companies will simply outsource or downsize to make up the difference.....

Jobs baby Jobs...the latest statement from Hillary is another joke...the only jobs that they will create are government jobs which means more people sucking on the tit of the american taxpayer....How exactly will increasing the cost of doing business (higher taxes on businesses) result in more jobs?

 

[Ollie]

Ollie, it sounds as if you want no government at all period. Is that the case?

Not really.
THe government should have 1 main responsibilities.
Defence of the country.
States should deal with infastructure and any social programs.
Once it leave the states, then you get disconnected politicians who are more concerned with power than actually doing what's right.

Say, california wants to invite all the illigals in the country to stay there, that's fine. They can. They can't however expect me in Colorado to pay for it. California can shut down all their nasty power plants and go without power. They can't however then demand we give them the power they need. They could however sign agreements with other states to cover the power difference (for a price of cource).

 

[bonz50]

You should tell that to people that have lost their retirements do to financial decisions of big business. People that have lost their jobs at 50 to be replaced by younger workers because they cost the business more in salary and retirement.... Tell that to everyone with the whole 401K crap that ended up reducing the net salary of most if not every worker with a retirement plan... Tell that to the people that are suffering from trying to afford correct medical care for loved ones, and can't....

I don't want govt to control my life either... though I find the argument interesting from a conservative standpoint... since they want to put more laws into effect about the way people live their lives...

hmmmmm.... tell me how govt can make this better without us becoming a communist nation... please tell me how many times our govt has provided ANYTHING better and cheaper than private sector can?? healthcare?? you ever been to a military hospital? I sure have, believe me, you don't wanna go there unless you have no other alternative... if you wanna see govt healthcare in this country just take a run by a local VA hospital

fwiw - people aren't FORCED to put there money in those investments... investment is risk, without risk there can be no reward... if you remove the risk you remove the reward... btw - when you contribute to social security, do you get back every dime you contribute or just part of it?? how is this any better than the stock market is right now??