Why is Obama a socialist?

[winter brew]

Answer me this....if there was no conservative party and Obama was allowed to do anything and everything he wanted, what would we have in a few years time?
Yes, they (we?) still havn't been paid in full by GM to the best of my knowledge. Far from it. They try to imply they have, but from what I have read not even close. The fact that money was handed over and then used to creat jobs and build factories in other countries should piss you off.
Handouts....99 weeks of unemployment...seriously?
Foodstamp statistics...look them up.
Some people will take all they can get....and then riot when they don't get more. We have seen recently what happens to an economy when this happens and this is the direction Obama wants to go. No thanks.

 

[winter brew]

As for Govt involvement in healthcare....have you ever dealt with the IRS?
I understand they will be expanding the IRS and using them to manage much of the system. I can say from first hand experience this scares the crap out of me. I have had what could have been a simple "one on one" 20 minute sit down with an IRS agent turn into a 2 year ordeal. Have had them lose my records 2 times in one year for months at a time. Had to hire a lawyer and pay over $2500 to guide me through a extremely overly complex maze of forms and hoop jumping to simply make a tax correction. It turned out it was all triggered by a simple printing error on their end. I came out OK except it cost me 2 years of stress, over $2500 in legal fees and I got charged interest while they drag their feet.
I hear more stories like this than not. If this is any indication of how they will "help" us with the healthcare system...well, that's scary! I can only imagine the billing and approval process and how efficient that will be LOL!
Keep that stuff privatized and competitive to keep costs down or it will be like the IRS, Post Office etc...

 

[ruffryder]

Answer me this....if there was no conservative party and Obama was allowed to do anything and everything he wanted, what would we have in a few years time?

single payer health care (which I am for) and a simplified tax code, and more priuses.. lol

Yes, they (we?) still havn't been paid in full by GM to the best of my knowledge. Far from it. They try to imply they have, but from what I have read not even close. The fact that money was handed over and then used to creat jobs and build factories in other countries should piss you off.

It is difficult to look at the 'paid in full' issue as only payments from the loan. If GM and Chrysler would have gone bankrupt the govt would of lost out on a lot of taxes as well as would have had increases in welfare. I think the issue is more complicated than just a simple "paid back". I think there is a net benefit to keeping manufacturing here in the US. Some of it will continuously move to other countries.. Don't forget that other areas like Asia are having much stronger growth in car sales than the US, hence the need for more factories in those countries.

Handouts....99 weeks of unemployment...seriously?

agreed, that was a sham. Wasn't unemployment insurance also extended by Bush as well?

Foodstamp statistics...look them up.

While more people have been able to apply for food stamps, I don't think the requirements have changed at all.

 

[ruffryder]

As for Govt involvement in healthcare....have you ever dealt with the IRS?
I understand they will be expanding the IRS and using them to manage much of the system. I can say from first hand experience this scares the crap out of me. I have had what could have been a simple "one on one" 20 minute sit down with an IRS agent turn into a 2 year ordeal. Have had them lose my records 2 times in one year for months at a time. Had to hire a lawyer and pay over $2500 to guide me through a extremely overly complex maze of forms and hoop jumping to simply make a tax correction. It turned out it was all triggered by a simple printing error on their end. I came out OK except it cost me 2 years of stress, over $2500 in legal fees and I got charged interest while they drag their feet.

Sounds like anyone dealing with any large company doesn't it? Doesn't Boeing have similar issues as well. Nature of the beast of a large business / industry.

I hear more stories like this than not. If this is any indication of how they will "help" us with the healthcare system...well, that's scary! I can only imagine the billing and approval process and how efficient that will be LOL!
Keep that stuff privatized and competitive to keep costs down or it will be like the IRS, Post Office etc...

There is a difference between single payer and govt run healthcare. You also need a negative feed back look to keep costs down, as there isn't even one in todays system.

I bet your tune would change if you didn't work at Boeing, wouldn't it? Or would your answer to be to go work at Boeing then?

What are your thoughts about the govt allowing businesses to deffer the cost of health insurance plans?

 

[POLZIN]

So if Obama endorsed Romney, would that make Romney a socialist? lol

Romneycare ? he doesnt need Barry to endorse him to be a socialist. Hes is a socialist . funny he was just talking about the constitution as the "Framework of his admin " what a crock. fawking hypocrit!

 

[ruffryder]

Keep that stuff privatized and competitive to keep costs down or it will be like the IRS, Post Office etc...

I think there is a fundamental error with the comparison to the IRS, Post Office etc. The purpose of these institutions are not to make money. What about the military? What about firefighters? What about the police? Should we privatize these as well?

 

[polaris dude]

Winterbrew we need regulation in private business! Do you know what started this whole recession? President Bush(jr) deregulating the banking industry. What does this do? It made it one h3ll of a lot easier for joe schmoe to get a loan for a house he couldn't afford in 1000 years with little down payment. And this worked out for a long time, joe would buy a house he clearly couldn't afford, then did a little renovation(maybe) and sold it for 5-10 grand profit. And this worked well until the bubble burst and suddenly Joe's house which he just bought for 500g was now worth 300 grand. leaving him 200g in the hole. Multiply this case times 1000 and suddenly a whole housing market is gutted and now people have loans out on their houses and their houses aren't even worth the loan. Now all these cheap houses interest the young folks who are looking to build a new house, but instead decide to buy a nice cheap house that was foreclosed on. So the contractors start losing business which means a big slowdown for them. All these folks struggling to get buy can't afford new cars so just fix the old for a while. Now suddenly the auto industry hurts too(I will concede that the big 3 were hurting before the recession too). This big long chain started with the idiots giving out the loans to people who couldn't afford them. And to a certain degree recessions are inevitable because the bubbles gotta pop eventually but the reason this was so severe is because of these subprime morgages.

 

[winter brew]

It started long before Bush. There was also the liberal congress that Bush had to deal with. I believe Barney Frank had a BIG hand in the housing issue.
Today Obama announced he wants to allow people who are underwater in their homes or just behind on payments to be able to refinanace at lower interest rates and/or forgive some of the balance owed....isn't that the mentality that got us into this housing mess?? What happened to just paying the mortgage you agreed to pay? Give it time....prices will come up.

So if Obama endorsed Romney, would that make Romney a socialist? lol

To endorse is to stand behind the candidate that best represents your beliefs or interests....that's what Socialist groups did with Obama. Not sure your hypathetical comparison is relevant since he does not have the same beliefs....so it will not happen.

I don't think the idea of the post office was to sap the taxpayer either....it should AT LEAST be self sufficient but there is no motivation to be efficient. Their private competitors are plenty profitable and MUCH easier to deal with as I do it daily.

The Healthcare plan Obama has in place just seems overly complicated and costly. If the idea is to simply make sure every American has access to healthcare, it would have been cheaper to buy the 20 million uninsured a fancy cadillac plan. Why is the govt plan so expensive???
How does fining or jailing someone who still cannot afford health insurance help? Some people will not be able to afford a plan even with the subsidy and those are likely the ones who need it the most....so fine them??
Where will the Dr's come from when another 20 million enter the system? I have to wait 2 weeks for an appt already and they are ALWAYS behind schedule.

I know you don't agree with me....you like what has happened in Greece, I like what America used to be and used to represent.

 

[ruffryder]

It started long before Bush. There was also the liberal congress that Bush had to deal with. I believe Barney Frank had a BIG hand in the housing issue.

lol... It had little to do with loans to people who couldn't pay.. it had much more to do with loan officers not being responsible for the risk associated with the loans they were making. There should have been a risk benefit analysis for loans, and there wasn't for most banks it seems.

Today Obama announced he wants to allow people who are underwater in their homes or just behind on payments to be able to refinanace at lower interest rates and/or forgive some of the balance owed....isn't that the mentality that got us into this housing mess?? What happened to just paying the mortgage you agreed to pay? Give it time....prices will come up.

Agreed, that is a bunch of crap. I want more of these homes to go in foreclosure.. It will be much easier for me to get my 30-40% down payment for a bigger house..lol

I don't think the idea of the post office was to sap the taxpayer either....it should AT LEAST be self sufficient but there is no motivation to be efficient. Their private competitors are plenty profitable and MUCH easier to deal with as I do it daily.

Why do you think it is an efficiency problem only? I know that I can ship a package most times faster for cheaper through the USPS.. Especially for heavy items with the flat rate box. Think about shipping to other countries, USPS is generally much much faster and cheaper. Think about all the shipping the military does, USPS to APO addresses is much much cheaper and faster than other methods.

Do you agree with that? Note there are many inefficiencies as well. Having post offices in every small town for example... but that is a service to the community and benefits everyone.

How does fining or jailing someone who still cannot afford health insurance help? Some people will not be able to afford a plan even with the subsidy and those are likely the ones who need it the most....so fine them??

It isn't about poor people necessarily, it is about increasing the size of the population pool for people who buy their insurance on their own, to make sure that pool is not ONLY sick people. When insurance rates increased, the people who were healthy stopped buying insurance, leaving those that were buying insurance more than likely to not be healthy and require more health services. That is a major reason why health insurance costs for those getting insurance on their own increased so dramatically.

Where will the Dr's come from when another 20 million enter the system? I have to wait 2 weeks for an appt already and they are ALWAYS behind schedule.

So now there is going to be a doctor shortage? lol. If there was a negative feed back loop, or if more plans were HSA's, then I think doctor usage and services would decrease. Too many people have a disincentive to use the health care services since it is insurance that pays for it, not them..

I know you don't agree with me....you like what has happened in Greece, I like what America used to be and used to represent.

Then you and the rest of your generation should have been trying to solve these problems a long time ago instead of counting your money and thinking every thing is so good for the last couple of decades... It hasn't been the last 10 years that things have gotten this bad...

 

[polaris dude]

No ruff it wasn't a lack of risk analysis, it was a lack of regulation that caused it directly. Cuz banks were absolutely raking in cash on loans to people who were flipping houses and when they didn't get burned after a year or two started doing it more and giving loans to less and less qualified people. Also, there wasn't much risk at the time because house prices were climbing so fast if a person didn't pay they took the house and could still typically make money off it. The one thing that really does peeve me is that the analyists actually LIED about the amount of risk associated with these loans when they packaged them up and sold them to big banks like citi, boa, and such which is why those banks got rocked for buying up lots of mortgages in big package deals. Wells fargo on the other hand resisted the temptation of "easy money" and the only loans they made were to people who could afford the loans.

haha can you tell I've had a very indepth talk with my dad about this and that he works at citi bank?

 

[winter brew]

Plenty of blame to go around....

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2008/02/clintons_drive.html

 

[winter brew]

....and around....

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/did-clinton-cause-the-banking-crisis.aspx

 

[winter brew]

.....and around....

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877319,00.html

 

[winter brew]

oh yea....Obama's a socialist....LOL.

 

[ruffryder]

....and around....

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/did-clinton-cause-the-banking-crisis.aspx

linky no worky..

 

[ruffryder]

.....and around....

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877319,00.html

I agree with that... Though there is a saying..

I owe you 10 bucks, that is my problem.

I owe you 1 million, that is your problem...

I think that fits when looking at the large financial institutions..

 

[polaris dude]

Yes, and we can all agree that deregulation is the prime cause of these problems. It may have started under clinton and continued under bush, but no matter who was president it happened and shouldn't be aloud to happen again

 

[winter brew]

I would add....all these problems stem from (IMO) a lack of morals and greed by those in positions of power.
Even the supposed "cures" such as healthcare, while the original intention may be to simply give better access to healthcare and coverage.... with the ins. co's, pharmacutical co's, and a LOT of lawyers and politicians involved, it will inevitably turn into some sort of money making machine for every group that can possibly profit. They see an opportunity to make more money from something with a goal of reducing money..?? How will that work out?
Govt forces every American to buy my product??? I'M IN!! Suddenly it's all about the money. Our money.

And oh yea....Obama's a socialist.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/they_dont_call_it_capitalism_for_nothing.html

 

[polaris dude]

Your a moron. Do you even live in Alaska? Are you aware he is your president too?

 

[polaris dude]

Your profile on says your from alaska. Sorry you aren't intelligent enough to post where you actually live ey?