No off trail riding in Snowy Range until 11/15/13

[Sage Crusher]

I took this ( and emailed the flyer to them also) to the Wyoming Senator's office here in RS Wyoming.... not sitting good-and calls were made to the Forest service,and idea's tossed- So we are getting attention from the top down.. Hope it does some good.

S/C

 

[kt19]

Very good suggestion and we will be sure to bring that up. Thank you.

 

[Tomkat700]

Try to stop me

I'd like to see them try to regulate this anyway. I haven't seen a FS guy up in the snowies in the winter for years.[/QUOTE]



I will still be riding Thanksgiving weekend if only on the "designated trails"
We should organize a ride in protest!

 

[WYOF7EXT]

This reminds me of how they closed the dirt bike trails on the forest...

Trails that had been there for decades on mostly old logging roads were closed. The means to close the trails was bought and paid for by ORV stickers...

I don't have to use much imagination to think the USFS will try to close all off road snow travel no matter how much snow cover, etc.

IMO this new regulation needs to be met with huge resistance or the door will be opened! This is just the beginning?

 

[mtn_klimer]

I hope things change! Me and a buddy are planning on a thanksgiving trip to wyoming from mn and I like riding the snowies and that looking like where we will go....BUT this stupid change might point us in a different direction...If there is a protest ride. Count us 2 in, i'd love to scream by the tree huggers on the turbo pro!

 

[WyoRMK]

KT 19
I would like to add a note for your meeting on Thursday.

Please remind them that Albany County SAR will have to comply with those rules and by implementig this stupid notion, they are limiting the ability of SAR to assist in missing persons, recoveries and hunting issues on the Range.

They aren't taking all aspects of what happens on the Range into considerations. Its the work of the enviroNazis.

By the way, I was ACSAR for almost 8 years and a past Vice President, if that helps.
syko

Just read the Order: https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5439099.pdf It specifically exempts anyone in an organized rescue situation. So Syko as far as SAR goes were Okay! Hope all is well up north!!!

 

[Sled208]

I called the FS at 307-745-2300. Was transfered to voice mail of a Frank Romero. Explained that we have been heading to the Snowies for 20 plus years on thanksgivivg weekend. Have skipped a few years due to low snow and have no desire to ride if conditions are not adequate. It is a chance to head west without taking a lot of time off from work. Businesses will feel the negative effect of putting closures on the forrest. We support business in Albany, Centenial, and Ryan Park when there. There are already far less businesses open in the Snowies then there were back in the early 90's. It seems as if the local economy is of no concern to the FS when making such assinine decisions. Thank God we dont have to deal with such dip****s in the midwest.

I called that number and had a thorough cordial conversation with a guy named Aaron. They claimed that they were very hesitant to instill new rules and that they held off for many years until they believe now something needs to be put into writing. The rule is a 5 year plan and is flexible and they have the authority to change it at any time. They will reassess the plan at the end of the 5th year or sooner if something needs revised. They will be flexible and if there is a freak snowstorm you are welcome to call and get permission to ride and they will objectively give you a "yes" or "no". He encouraged me to try it this year and then send them a letter and detail with examples how the current rules were detrimental to my usage of the forest. At the end of the year If they get 200 complaints from snowmobilers and none from ATV owners or other users then they'll adjust accordingly to keep us happy. (Address that letter to the manger Phil Cruz). He maintained that the goal of the rule is maximum non-confrontational usage of the forest and NOT conservation of the area. The rule's intentions was to keep wheeled vehicles from tearing up the snowmobile trail and snowmobilers from interfering with hunting season or tearing up trails and terrain (we agreed to disagree on that) My contention was that set dates don't need to be established and snowmobiles don't tear up trails and foliage. The rocks take care of the snowmobilers who try to go too early and that most have so much invested in their machines that they are going to wait until a snow depth deeper than the proposed rule so no rule needs to exist. I also voiced concern about the December 1st being too late in the year as I have ridden out there on several occasions over Thanksgiving weekend. They would potentially be harming the businesses if there's snow and people aren't allowed to take advantage of it.

My cliff notes:

Pros:

• Established a rule that keeps someone from driving a 4x4 truck down the snowmobile trails.
• Gives snowmobilers exclusive motorized usage for 6 months out of the year.

Cons:

• There is a Rule where none existed before. Once rules start..... pretty soon it gets clamped further and further down. (yellowstone).
• There are opportunities to ride off trail when their new rule would prohibit it.
• Even if you get the "yes" go ahead and ride outside of the season, all it takes is the wrong person to force their hand and boot you out. (That would suck if you drove from Iowa to get there)

 

[Griff]

I would not get false hopes up of trying to work with the FS and play their game by giving it a try for a year. We want to be able to ride when the snow is good and decide for ourselves when that is. I would ask Aaron where the rule states he is authorized to be flexible and grant exceptions when he objectively determines it is ok to do so.

 

[Sled208]

I would not get false hopes up of trying to work with the FS and play their game by giving it a try for a year. We want to be able to ride when the snow is good and decide for ourselves when that is. I would ask Aaron where the rule states he is authorized to be flexible and grant exceptions when he objectively determines it is ok to do so.

You can call and ask for yourself. The number is quoted in my post

 

[blzntrlss]

What would a tree hugger do if they didn't like the decision? They would SUE the forest circus!

 

[bacobits]

As concerning as the dates are, having a minimum of 12" at any time is even worse. There are spots that stay pretty windblown and 12" is gonna be stretch. So now we are gonna have depth cops runninng around with tape measures?

A couple spots just off the top of my head, what about from the glacier out across what we call the rock pile, north and west towards arrowhead lake, or leaving beer hill and going up libby creek on the way to the gap, there are times the wind has bolwn that pretty thin.

They say they're trying to resolve conflicts, this bs could just cause more, but it is the govt after all, so what the hell do we expect?

 

[Tomkat700]

Keep Calling!

Just got off the phone with Larry Sandoval the public affairs officer for the Forest Service. all trails can be ridden on right now. Due to the attention this is getting he told me they are already considering moving the dates for off trail use. Keep the calls and emails going we can fight this! Also I was told the 12" rule is a discretionary thing which is not good as stated above many areas are windblown with an 8' drift next to bare ground. Regardless of the results I will be riding on black Friday.... Hopefully not alone! Larry Sandoval direct line (307)-745-2420 leave a message!

 

[dansyl159]

Sewww, Danny who was the rep from the FS that came to the meeting and how did it go? Sorry I wasn't there, probably a couple more weeks before we make the migration.
I will give Larry a call and add my 2cents.

 

[kt19]

Reminder meeting tonight

Just want to remind everyone that can be in Laramie tonight for the Snowy Range Snowmobile Club meeting it is at 7:00 PM at the Holiday Inn (Gold Room). A representative from the FS will be there.
For those of you coming please be respectful of the representative and when the floor is opened for questions and comments please be courteous and on point so everyone that has questions can get theirs asked.

Thanks again to all that support and let's have a solid turn out so that the FS understands our concerns. And with any luck convince them to make some changes.

 

[WyoRMK]

Sewww, Danny who was the rep from the FS that came to the meeting and how did it go? Sorry I wasn't there, probably a couple more weeks before we make the migration.
I will give Larry a call and add my 2cents.

Meeting is tonight Dan. Will let you Know!

 

[dansyl159]

Damn, I'm off a day!!

 

[Ryan-41]

The Meeting!

I just left the meeting that the Snowy Range Snowmobile Association held for the Order pertaining to the rules of only being able to ride from November 30th to May 30! There was 3 people from the Forest Service that came and talked about the Order and why it was put in place! There was a lot of Snowmobilers that came to the meeting, it was a very good turn out and they said they were surprised at how many people came to support the sport and protest this order. So as far as attendance goes, it was impressive to see all the people there! The Snowmobilers gave a lot of valid points to the forest service of why these rules aren't going to help anything and they are just going to hurt a lot of businesses and take away a lot of money from the surrounding counties. The big thing was a lot of people riding during Thanksgiving and people coming from the Mid Western States such Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota Etc. coming out to ride Over Thanksgiving and with this Order in effect, you could not do this.

1.) The 12 inch rule, meaning if there is not 12 inches of snow, you cannot ride off trail. Which most of the snowmobilers have no problem with. It seems kinda of like a common sense rule, if there isn't very much snow you probably wont be riding trail because you don't want to take out an a-arm or damage your sled!

2.) The Dates that they put in place, The forest service did not really have a good reason why these dates were put in place, they tried to say that they put the Nov. 30 date in effect because of the Cow/Calf Hunting season, but the snowmobilers quickly shut that down by saying that by that time, the elk and other animals had migrated to lower elevation because they do not want to compete with deep snow and snowmobilers are riding up higher where there is more snow, so essential the elk are not the problem and they also said that they put this rule in place because people were riding really early season and damaging the ground and wilderness, but if they said that you had to have 12 inches of snow to ride off trail, that would eliminate this problem and you would not have to have the dates in place. They did not really have a reason for why the May 30th date is there and a lot of snowmobilers gave really good points of why there should be no dates set in place.

This is kind of all of the place, but I tried to write this with giving a lot of detail in a couple of short paragraphs.

All in all the Snowmobilers gave a lot of good points and the Forest Service seemed take them in to consideration. So hopefully they get things figured out and let us ride.


Ryan

 

[kt19]

Thanks Ryan for posting after the meeting.

Thank you to everyone that came to the meeting. I think the FS left with the impression that the dates were the problem with their new order. They will be visiting with the ranger over in Saratoga then taking it to their boss. With any luck this will happen in the next week. We will release a full detailed report of the meeting in the next few days. In the meantime Frank Romero of the FS said the best way to address this is with letters and emails. Calls help but with written documents there is proof of contact.

Franks email is: feromero@fs.fed.us

Frank is willing to listen and he will read your email. They also said please present facts.

If you prefer to send a letter send it to the FS office in Laramie

Thanks to the Forest service for taking the time to come and speak with us.
Thank you to the Holiday Inn for hosting the event
Thank you to the 80+ people who showed up to support the sport of snowmobiling! Everyone that gave their comments and did so in a professional and respectful manner. (I truly believe this went a long ways with the Forest Service representatives.)

We will keep all updated as we move forward.

 

[matt159]

In the meantime Frank Romero of the FS said the best way to address this is with letters and emails. Calls help but with written documents there is proof of contact.

Franks email is: feromero@fs.fed.us

Frank is willing to listen and he will read your email. They also said please present facts.

e.mail sent!

 

[Qreiff]

Emails are great and let have as many as possible. I do think it is imperative that the emails state facts and stay positive. (You catch more bears with honey VS. vinegar)

I like to see the OSV community coming together and standing strong. These issues are not going away. EVER.

Type away everyone and maintain a cool head.