I ran into a similar problem while running the big blocks in the offshore boats. Pulled over twice in WI and once in FL. Beat all three of them because the "officers" doing the tests have no idea how to perform them. There are a lot different factors that go into the test, sounds around you, wind, distance away and how high ect. With the boats and I would have to assume with the sleds you will have to be in a controled enviroment to get an accurate test. It took some of my time going to court but what a great feeling showing those guys up! Just another way to make money to save one tree at a time or the manatee.
New sound regs--Sleds/OHV
- Thread starter BackCountryBob
- Start date
**** them we can do what ever we want when ever the **** we feel like it
Get used to it, when BHO gets elected the dB levels of your farts in a public restroom will be regulated.
I can see even a law open to the interpretation of the law enforcement official in congested public areas for wrecklessness, excessive displays of speed, etc. but when you're 10 miles from a road KMA the trees don't care.
This is an inroad to shut down sledding. Just like gun control what starts as self regulation, has no end. Pretty soon flippin lawyers will start class action lawsuits agianst the manufacturers of sleds like they did against gun manufacturers.
I can see even a law open to the interpretation of the law enforcement official in congested public areas for wrecklessness, excessive displays of speed, etc. but when you're 10 miles from a road KMA the trees don't care.
This is an inroad to shut down sledding. Just like gun control what starts as self regulation, has no end. Pretty soon flippin lawyers will start class action lawsuits agianst the manufacturers of sleds like they did against gun manufacturers.
I also noticed from the SW article that this CO House Bill will allow State officials to give tickets on Federal land. Have the Feds given CO authority to enforce laws on Federal grounds?
B
BackCountryBob
Well-known member
We have a CSP officer speaking at the Mile Hi SMC meeting in November. We also have a very high ranking staff officer of the CSP as a Mile Hi board member. So we will get an answer to your question.
My position is, as soon as they give CSP sleds that can keep up with my 800, then I'll worry about it even though I run a SLP can which is almost stock quiet.
BCB
My position is, as soon as they give CSP sleds that can keep up with my 800, then I'll worry about it even though I run a SLP can which is almost stock quiet.
BCB
G
Groomer-Doo
New member
State legislature passed a new noise ordinance, 90db stationary test for sleds from July 2, 1977 to present. $100 fine.
BCB
Just to clairfy a few things. The new ordinance was passed this year but does not go into effect untill 2010. The test is stationary and is done on snow six feet from the sled. The test is done at 4000rpm and is not to exceed 88db. There is a artical on this in sno west this month.
Doo the snow dance !
Does the agency running the machine supply the belts? I don't know that I want to hold the brake and slowly increase RPM up to 4 grand and hold for up to four seconds.
On the offroading bill: Good question about whether there is a concurrent federal delegation of authority to the state. There are, however, a lot of Fed-County agreements for law enforcement for patrols and traffic laws, so it wouldn't surprise me.
You should have seen the original bill. It was clearly closed unless posted open, whether or not the USFS or BLM had been able to determine what the regulation was and the status of the land. In other words, if the federal agency had not been able to do its work due to lawsuits, lack of funds or whatever, there was no motorized use on roads or any where. The bill was courtesy of Kathleen Curry of Gunnison, another good example of why term limits are needed-- to protect me from voters in her district.
On the offroading bill: Good question about whether there is a concurrent federal delegation of authority to the state. There are, however, a lot of Fed-County agreements for law enforcement for patrols and traffic laws, so it wouldn't surprise me.
You should have seen the original bill. It was clearly closed unless posted open, whether or not the USFS or BLM had been able to determine what the regulation was and the status of the land. In other words, if the federal agency had not been able to do its work due to lawsuits, lack of funds or whatever, there was no motorized use on roads or any where. The bill was courtesy of Kathleen Curry of Gunnison, another good example of why term limits are needed-- to protect me from voters in her district.
yah, so...hows this spose to work. not many sleds, let alone a mountain sled setups will NOT be engauged by 4000 rpm... or is it a track stand? lol
sounds like they pulled these numbers from tests they did at the sno cross track or something..
man ppl are morons. i'm glad we got people looking out for our safety, where would we be w/o them. next they'll have us paying for these tests out of our own pocket... think bs vehicle exhuast testing.
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D
deepsnowseeker
New member
Did I read the article wrong, my understanding was that this wasn't going into effect until summer 09? When do the standards take place, is it right now? Needing clarifacation.
D
deepsnowseeker
New member
Should have read the whole thread, got a little ahead of myself.
S
Snowjunky
Well-known member
I am soooooooo glad there are soooooooo many people like you that are willing to just give up your rights. I am against open pipes and annoying pipes. I am dead set against rolling over and giving in. I always refer to snowmobiling as the last sport you can go as fast as you want for as far as you want. Speaking backcountry of course. You give up. You give up your rights. Not me. Dont pretend your not a tree hugger cause you are. Dont preach to me about working within a crappy rule. I will fight it to the end and hopefully squeeze out the tree huggers like yourself. I do agree with all you said about the tracks though. You are right there. I just refuse to give them all this with out a fight. Sounds like 1776 huh. Well sign me up for any and all confronting arguing against more regulation. You go vote for the dempcrap guy who will help you succumb to those regulations. I just wish I had know about this because I would have gone to the meetings also. Go back to hiking and biking. Your brothers miss you
M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
heh, that's funny. There's a difference between giving up "my rights" and not being an inconsiderate moron.
You mentioned politics - fine, I'll go there. The best label I can give myself is Libertarian. IE; do whatever you want if you're not having a negative impact on someone else's life.
If I roll into a parking lot full of families getting ready to go to church, windows open and something from Cannibal Corpse's "Butchered at Birth" blaring, would it be unreasonable to ask me to turn it down?
Would I be considered rude?
Or, is it "MY RIGHT" to listen to MY music as loud as I want no matter where I am?
The snowmobile thing is not all that different; people with different views are sharing a finite open space - some of us like motors, some of us do not.
Some of us like deathmetal, some of us do not.
That's where my "treehugger" side comes in - I _DO_ think it is rude to blare music in parking lots - pretty to very sure that most people don't want to hear MY music, what makes them think I want to hear theirs? (I really do listen to CC - pretty sure they don't want to hear it
. I also think it is rude to ride without an adequate muffler. I also think that the people who go to OHV legal areas to stumble around on foot and look for rare butterflies are idiots - don't want to be around motors? Don't go there!
Beyond that, I'm basically a motorhead. Loud is simply bad for the sport - cars, dirt bikes, snowmobiles.
Perception is reality. If someone hears us & complains, the ball is rolling - and in this climate, it rolls in their favor. We all know that.
So - we need to motivate and present our side, try to preserve what we've got.
So, let's say a judge was hearing it out - two sides:
1. The plaintiff - "I was out walking my organically fed ****zu, and I heard this nasty snowmobile, and I think that we need to close this area."
OK. The plaintiff has momentum in their favor, right out of the gate. It might suck, but that's the way it is.
2. Defendant - what can you say about it, if there are no laws/limits?
- It is not too loud (how loud?)
- It is My Right.
- I'm not rolling over.
- It is not an open or annoying pipe (says who?)
Regulations are _good_ for the sport. Frankly, the OHV community sounds like a bunch of hillbilly jackasses when they start spouting off about MY RIGHTS and LAST FRONTIER and DAMNED GREENIES!!!!!!
We _need_ to have a set of guidelines in place - they need to be reasonable, of course - but we need to have those guidelines in place, so when there IS a conflict, we can say "hey, look, the sled passes OHV Soundlaw 123, which is XdB at Y feet. The operator was riding in ______ area, with the appropriate registration stickers, blah blah blah."
The latter puts us in a much better spot. Does it feel like giving in? I guess, maybe - but we agree; we are both "against open pipes and annoying pipes." That's good. Problem is, YOUR definition of "open and annoying" is probably much different than the average person who is anti-OHV.
Without a rule, a metric, a measurement, it becomes your word against theirs. A "third party" regulation will go a long way - and maybe "they" will shift some focus to THE RULE as opposed to riding (all).
Their words seem a WHOLE LOT more reasonable to a judge/lawmaker who does not _really_ care either way; they quote "factual" data about impact to the environment and the rare mudweed and blah blah blah.....
.....and all we've got is "IT'S MY RIGHT!"
We need the regulations.
Iain
<<Regulations are _good_ for the sport.>>
That's kind of a "spread the wealth around" statement.
I strongly disagree.
You've gotta see past the issue at hand and see where they're headed with the additional regulation. I've been sitting up on Vail Pass, motor off and could hear "legal" engine brakes on semi's screaming way louder than a set of twins. No one was after regulating them w/ db meters. The sound was present in the same riding area that USFS proposes to now vilify snowmobiles.
The fine USFS gentlemen who came down a few days to our area from GJ were total goons - plain and simple. They made a point of being rude and intimidating to people who didn't deserve the harassment - several folks who commute on snowmobiles to town were given the 3rd degree - and they HAD legit registrations. Once these jerks left, life returned to normal.
Once they've cracked down on the Harley guy w/ straight pipes next to the Starbucks pawing at his throttle to hear his motor above his iPod, then they can chase me around 5 miles back in the back country with my twins.
Next they'll be regulating track width to mitigate snow compaction, and telling s what hours we can ride on what days due to snow-snake migration and potential Sasquache habitat.
What they need to do is use more carrot than stick.
Maybe spend a little time putting up some signs, clearing trails, or doing rider clinics. A little positive interaction goes a long way.
More regulation is not a good solution.
That's kind of a "spread the wealth around" statement.
I strongly disagree.
You've gotta see past the issue at hand and see where they're headed with the additional regulation. I've been sitting up on Vail Pass, motor off and could hear "legal" engine brakes on semi's screaming way louder than a set of twins. No one was after regulating them w/ db meters. The sound was present in the same riding area that USFS proposes to now vilify snowmobiles.
The fine USFS gentlemen who came down a few days to our area from GJ were total goons - plain and simple. They made a point of being rude and intimidating to people who didn't deserve the harassment - several folks who commute on snowmobiles to town were given the 3rd degree - and they HAD legit registrations. Once these jerks left, life returned to normal.
Once they've cracked down on the Harley guy w/ straight pipes next to the Starbucks pawing at his throttle to hear his motor above his iPod, then they can chase me around 5 miles back in the back country with my twins.
Next they'll be regulating track width to mitigate snow compaction, and telling s what hours we can ride on what days due to snow-snake migration and potential Sasquache habitat.
What they need to do is use more carrot than stick.
Maybe spend a little time putting up some signs, clearing trails, or doing rider clinics. A little positive interaction goes a long way.
More regulation is not a good solution.
M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
So, once "they" make the lives of those YOU find annoying miserable, you'll consider change?
Like the sign @ Butler Gulch that the Henderson Mine people put up saying "no snowmobiles" because the snowmobile with the red line through it was not clear enough?
In a lot of ways, I agree, but IMHO, the OHV community has to get a LOT more cooperative - as a group, OHV users come off as unreasonable & stubborn - full of ideas about what everyone ELSE needs to do, but seemingly unwilling to make any personal change.
Everyone tells me I'm wrong, that working with other user groups will result in nothing left for us, and dammit, we have to fight for what's ours! It's our RIGHT!
blah blah blah.
I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong; to the best of my knowledge, there have not been many widespread attempts to work WITH other user groups to try to find common ground, and that kinda frustrates me. If no one has tried it, it is not really fair to say it won't work.
Maybe, maybe not - the point is, if there's a rule on the books & we, as a group, abide by it, we have a much stronger leg to stand on. No matter what, those that don't like OHVs will think they're too loud - no matter what the number is.
So, A) give up and decide it is not worth trying to look like we want to promote multiple use public lands
or
B) work with the FS to get a realistic DB limit so we can have our fun AND point out to those who disagree that we _are_ taking their recreational activities into consideration, we're not just a bunch of arrogant jerks who think that they should shut up and put up with us because it's "our right."
I _wish_ the FS could afford to do more. Namely, give severe tickets for infractions - dumbasses on quads riding singletrack/motorcycle only trails, giving tickets to motorcyclists who think they can ride the bicycle trails, ticketing the snowmobilers for riding in illegal areas. That'd go a LONG way to keeping everyone playing nice, honestly - *most* non-motorized users go out of their way to avoid motorized-use areas, and it is certainly "their right" to be upset when they encounter a motorized vehicle there.
Dunno. I guess what I'd like to see are more proactive OHV users who don't have this separatist "it's our right" attitude, screw everyone else, we can do whatever we want - talk about things that don't help our sport?
That tops my list.
Iain
Wow, ok - lots to digest and respond to there. Kind of the shotgun approach, eh?
On topic - I'm quite sure there is no changing your mind that additional regulation (of whatever type) will have a negative affect on our ability to use our public lands.
I understand the argument that if we annoy people, they'll come after our land rights. But, you need to see that by our very existence, and use of our PUBLIC land (regardless of noise, emmissions, compaction, parking, viewshed or other artifact of our travels) we will continue to be something that needs to be "managed" out of existence.
I'm well aware of the issue - I own a remote home near a soon to re-open snowcat ski area. While we love the possibility of the skiing amenity (I'm a skier), I'm very concerned that the skiers (more likely the enviro-snob guides they've hired) will work diligently to regulate snowmobiles out of existence once they begin operations - mostly based on noise.
I can see it happinging: Six $450/day ski tourists and two guides emerge from a 350HP diesel snowcat that has been driven 15miles (uphill), and slap on their skis. The cat dives away. A few sleds (without loud pipes) make their way across the other side of the valley. Tourista Skier #1 - says to guide: Wow, there are a lot of snowmobiles out here. (said Tourista has counted 10 sleds by 3:00PM) Guide A says to Guide B - ya know, maybe we should create a stakeholder group, and work to reduce the both the number of sleds, and the areas that they use so we don't have to see and hear them - we could impose a registration system! Plus they make the trailhead we just decided to start using soo congested. Next it is propsoed at the next Town Council meeting as a "study group", and well received by the USFS - who lacks $$$ and manpower to properly manage snowmobile use. Soon, recreational snowmobiling is eradicated from the valley - other than private homeowners on pre-determined routes. Snowcats continue to drop $450.00/day skiers on the top of what could easily be considered "Wilderness".
This is an area where snowmobiles and snowcats/skiers previously co-existed for years just fine, but I see s different attitude in the skiers and enviro-wackos these days. Therefore, while I'm not going to go screaming by them with straight pipes, I'm certainly not going to kick one of the legs out from under my own stool.
I live and ride in a sparsely populated area and feel that the possibility of someone or something "hearing" my sled and that having a real impact is ridiculous. We have may other sources of noise that are completely unregulated - semi traffic on nearby highways, airplanes, avalanche charges, chain-saws, shot guns, building and road maintenance equipment etc..
We have a town council that just spent xx number of hours with a lawyer at $340/hr to draft an un-enforceable noise regulation withing the town proper. If someone drops a hammer, they're likely to violate the ordinance and be ticketed. The "regulators" simply created a stick that they can now apply as THEY see fit. They did not solve a problem, or provide any value. I see a similar issue with backcountry motorized travel.
Snowmobiles are an easy target.
If enviro-group X can show that hey beat us up (took away land, required registrations, eliminated us) they can go after more membership $$$$.
That's what this is really about.
You don't see these groups going after hunting & hunters.
Do you think a rifle makes less noise than a sled?
So, I say don't hand them anything, and be responsible and a good neighbor - even if you enjoy loud pipes.
L8R.
MD.
On topic - I'm quite sure there is no changing your mind that additional regulation (of whatever type) will have a negative affect on our ability to use our public lands.
I understand the argument that if we annoy people, they'll come after our land rights. But, you need to see that by our very existence, and use of our PUBLIC land (regardless of noise, emmissions, compaction, parking, viewshed or other artifact of our travels) we will continue to be something that needs to be "managed" out of existence.
I'm well aware of the issue - I own a remote home near a soon to re-open snowcat ski area. While we love the possibility of the skiing amenity (I'm a skier), I'm very concerned that the skiers (more likely the enviro-snob guides they've hired) will work diligently to regulate snowmobiles out of existence once they begin operations - mostly based on noise.
I can see it happinging: Six $450/day ski tourists and two guides emerge from a 350HP diesel snowcat that has been driven 15miles (uphill), and slap on their skis. The cat dives away. A few sleds (without loud pipes) make their way across the other side of the valley. Tourista Skier #1 - says to guide: Wow, there are a lot of snowmobiles out here. (said Tourista has counted 10 sleds by 3:00PM) Guide A says to Guide B - ya know, maybe we should create a stakeholder group, and work to reduce the both the number of sleds, and the areas that they use so we don't have to see and hear them - we could impose a registration system! Plus they make the trailhead we just decided to start using soo congested. Next it is propsoed at the next Town Council meeting as a "study group", and well received by the USFS - who lacks $$$ and manpower to properly manage snowmobile use. Soon, recreational snowmobiling is eradicated from the valley - other than private homeowners on pre-determined routes. Snowcats continue to drop $450.00/day skiers on the top of what could easily be considered "Wilderness".
This is an area where snowmobiles and snowcats/skiers previously co-existed for years just fine, but I see s different attitude in the skiers and enviro-wackos these days. Therefore, while I'm not going to go screaming by them with straight pipes, I'm certainly not going to kick one of the legs out from under my own stool.
I live and ride in a sparsely populated area and feel that the possibility of someone or something "hearing" my sled and that having a real impact is ridiculous. We have may other sources of noise that are completely unregulated - semi traffic on nearby highways, airplanes, avalanche charges, chain-saws, shot guns, building and road maintenance equipment etc..
We have a town council that just spent xx number of hours with a lawyer at $340/hr to draft an un-enforceable noise regulation withing the town proper. If someone drops a hammer, they're likely to violate the ordinance and be ticketed. The "regulators" simply created a stick that they can now apply as THEY see fit. They did not solve a problem, or provide any value. I see a similar issue with backcountry motorized travel.
Snowmobiles are an easy target.
If enviro-group X can show that hey beat us up (took away land, required registrations, eliminated us) they can go after more membership $$$$.
That's what this is really about.
You don't see these groups going after hunting & hunters.
Do you think a rifle makes less noise than a sled?
So, I say don't hand them anything, and be responsible and a good neighbor - even if you enjoy loud pipes.
L8R.
MD.
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M
mannix
ACCOUNT CLOSED
That's fair. I'm not convinced that more regulation in and of itself is GOOD for the sport - but I see it in a better light than "nothing."
There are a lot of double standards. I see your point; I just find myself wondering if getting backed into a corner really is better. The way I see it, the opposition is going to come up with study groups and charts and graphs and all of that - and we (IMHO) should have something more than "because we want to" on our side.
It is a tough deal. I certainly won't put a loud can on my sled. My dirtbikes all have stock silencers and frequent repacks (and I'm considering getting a "DB Snorkel").
Making it quieter is probably a distant second to simply obeying the current rules, don't do doughnuts in the parking lot, being respectful and friendly and all that. I'm just not going to make mine louder "because I can."
I just want it to snow. Walked around a little bit in the mountains today (f-range), nope, not even close - but it was good to get out.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss - I appreciate it!
Iain
There are a lot of double standards. I see your point; I just find myself wondering if getting backed into a corner really is better. The way I see it, the opposition is going to come up with study groups and charts and graphs and all of that - and we (IMHO) should have something more than "because we want to" on our side.
It is a tough deal. I certainly won't put a loud can on my sled. My dirtbikes all have stock silencers and frequent repacks (and I'm considering getting a "DB Snorkel").
Making it quieter is probably a distant second to simply obeying the current rules, don't do doughnuts in the parking lot, being respectful and friendly and all that. I'm just not going to make mine louder "because I can."
I just want it to snow. Walked around a little bit in the mountains today (f-range), nope, not even close - but it was good to get out.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss - I appreciate it!
Iain
I have one question...
Did the CSA sign on to this thing because they wanted to help the long term "life" of snowmobieling in Colorado.....
OR...... did our CSA President Janelle, (who wrote the article for SnoWest) see this as an opportunity to settle a personal vendetta with Mod sleds and their owners/riders....?.....
I somewhat Know who she is, and have seen how much work her and her husband puts into our sport, and for that we all should be thankful((especially since she lives about 60 miles from the nearest gas station))...
HOWEVER, from what little I have seen.... It would't surprise me that she is settling a personal score here.....
Did the CSA sign on to this thing because they wanted to help the long term "life" of snowmobieling in Colorado.....
OR...... did our CSA President Janelle, (who wrote the article for SnoWest) see this as an opportunity to settle a personal vendetta with Mod sleds and their owners/riders....?.....
I somewhat Know who she is, and have seen how much work her and her husband puts into our sport, and for that we all should be thankful((especially since she lives about 60 miles from the nearest gas station))...
HOWEVER, from what little I have seen.... It would't surprise me that she is settling a personal score here.....
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If this so called "Janelle" is settling a personal score using public policy that affects the entire membership of CSA (remember the C in CSA) - she should be returned to civilization from said homestead, thanked for all of her hard work and promptly dishonorably discharged with a firm smack on the keester. [same should be done to whatever hot-rod made her behave as such]
I don't care if she rides an electric hybrid, corn-fed, solar-powered, glouten-free sled that has a db output of -20; this IS ludicrous. We're now our own worst enemy because of a personal vendetta?!!! WTF?!
My chainsaw, 13hp Generator, lawn mower, snowblower and two labradors and rifle each make more than 98db at operating capacity. Hell, if you slam the front door it well exceeds what our lovely "Janelle" proposes.
Now, I have to wait for the USFS goon squad to stop me on a Tuesday morning with not a tourista in sight let alone an easily offend-able, first season, green-whiz skier guide dope smoker for miles and succumb to a db test while heading to work?
Grrrr.....! If that's true, CSA can take my membership and shove it up their... ()*()
http://www.coloradosledcity.com/merchant.ihtml?id=1363&step=2
Here's a SJNF DEIS Quote from Ms.Quiet Pipes:
<<Second, there should also be an expectation for sound to be generated adjacent to motorized trails (not just ‘roads’) that pass through or adjacent to non-motorized areas.” >>
MD.
Great Points Iain - more agreement than disagreement in our statements. That sound-absorbing snow is on it's way!
I don't care if she rides an electric hybrid, corn-fed, solar-powered, glouten-free sled that has a db output of -20; this IS ludicrous. We're now our own worst enemy because of a personal vendetta?!!! WTF?!
My chainsaw, 13hp Generator, lawn mower, snowblower and two labradors and rifle each make more than 98db at operating capacity. Hell, if you slam the front door it well exceeds what our lovely "Janelle" proposes.
Now, I have to wait for the USFS goon squad to stop me on a Tuesday morning with not a tourista in sight let alone an easily offend-able, first season, green-whiz skier guide dope smoker for miles and succumb to a db test while heading to work?
Grrrr.....! If that's true, CSA can take my membership and shove it up their... ()*()
http://www.coloradosledcity.com/merchant.ihtml?id=1363&step=2
Here's a SJNF DEIS Quote from Ms.Quiet Pipes:
<<Second, there should also be an expectation for sound to be generated adjacent to motorized trails (not just ‘roads’) that pass through or adjacent to non-motorized areas.” >>
MD.
Great Points Iain - more agreement than disagreement in our statements. That sound-absorbing snow is on it's way!
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What really chapped my a$$ about the article in SW was the sentence, "[t]he bill, then, only penalizes those riders who can't leave well enough alone..." and that it won't affect 90% of the riders. So, what about the 10% of us...you know, those of us that like to put an aftermarket can/pipe/head/etc.
I'd like to believe that if a stock sled gets selected for testing under this new noise standard that it would pass but I'm not sure that the testers will administer the test as it should be done. Tests can be skewed and I'm sure this is no exception.
I am skeptical b/c I have a decade of Federal law enforcement experience and I've seen bad officers from the top down. I also see a lot of ways to fight the ticket but who in the heck has the time to fight a $100 ticket when it'll cost you multiple days off of work, gas/diesel and your time to work up a case. It's just another way to nickel and dime us if the officer so chooses.
What will this amount to? If you don't look stock, you will be a target. I'm not a fan of an obnoxiously loud sled but I'm not sure that an 88db(A) standard is the right way. I really hope that we're not moving closer to becoming another Yellowstone.
I'd like to believe that if a stock sled gets selected for testing under this new noise standard that it would pass but I'm not sure that the testers will administer the test as it should be done. Tests can be skewed and I'm sure this is no exception.
I am skeptical b/c I have a decade of Federal law enforcement experience and I've seen bad officers from the top down. I also see a lot of ways to fight the ticket but who in the heck has the time to fight a $100 ticket when it'll cost you multiple days off of work, gas/diesel and your time to work up a case. It's just another way to nickel and dime us if the officer so chooses.
What will this amount to? If you don't look stock, you will be a target. I'm not a fan of an obnoxiously loud sled but I'm not sure that an 88db(A) standard is the right way. I really hope that we're not moving closer to becoming another Yellowstone.
S
Snowjunky
Well-known member
First of all I want to make myself more clear. What is the noise hurting. Do we have deaf deer here in Colorado? Who is complaining? Is it the snowmobile's? So if I go to your church and play my loud music at 88db your okay? Yea right. You go and form another committee and change it to 2 db. But wait that's not all you get....If you make a new law today you also get a variance for the pastors mic so he can be heard. I love God and fear the day he comes back. However,anywhere politics is discussed, or wherever you discuss its more laws to govern and protect. this isn't the answer. For Christs sake man it is now illegal not to yield to a frigging bicycle on the diagonal hwy Enough is enough.
You are right about me not having a better argument though. Your right about its my right .You tell me how to say" keep your bleeding heart liberal tree hug gin whiny butt cross country skiing tail off my snowmobile trail " and I will say it.
Yes more sound regs will help me defend what? My right to have a bad 300hp screamer! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! It will help me defend the tree hugger 88db rule. If I walk down the road and get hit it is my fault. Ride a bike and it is the cars fault. Your example of the church parking lot should go both ways. If you dont like my loud pipes stay home. PERIOD The bully attitude has been reversed here. The lawyers and tree huggers are out of line and this IT IS GONNA HELP US ATTITUDE IS CRAP!!!!!!!! Problem is snowmobilers are generally happy. SO WE ARE OUT PLAYING NOT WHINING AT THE LOCAL MEETING THAT WILL PROHIBIT MORE FUN! PERIOD Horsepower = noise. Now I will do my part to keep my 1200 triple quite. But I will not loose power to do it. And if you want to tell me the tear my gun from my cold dead hands statement is wrong..............
Also I have never done a cookie in the parking lot. More laws in the parking lot maybe. More laws in the wild is taking my right to get away from the city folk and have fun period.
You are right about me not having a better argument though. Your right about its my right .You tell me how to say" keep your bleeding heart liberal tree hug gin whiny butt cross country skiing tail off my snowmobile trail " and I will say it.
Yes more sound regs will help me defend what? My right to have a bad 300hp screamer! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! It will help me defend the tree hugger 88db rule. If I walk down the road and get hit it is my fault. Ride a bike and it is the cars fault. Your example of the church parking lot should go both ways. If you dont like my loud pipes stay home. PERIOD The bully attitude has been reversed here. The lawyers and tree huggers are out of line and this IT IS GONNA HELP US ATTITUDE IS CRAP!!!!!!!! Problem is snowmobilers are generally happy. SO WE ARE OUT PLAYING NOT WHINING AT THE LOCAL MEETING THAT WILL PROHIBIT MORE FUN! PERIOD Horsepower = noise. Now I will do my part to keep my 1200 triple quite. But I will not loose power to do it. And if you want to tell me the tear my gun from my cold dead hands statement is wrong..............
Also I have never done a cookie in the parking lot. More laws in the parking lot maybe. More laws in the wild is taking my right to get away from the city folk and have fun period.
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