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New sound regs--Sleds/OHV

Ha ha, glad I got a "near stock sound levels" single setup this year. Let the looking down of the elitist nose begin:face-icon-small-dis You four stroke turbo guys have some surprises in store. The decibel meter doesn't discern between pleasant and obnoxious noise:face-icon-small-win

I doubt if any of this is going to amount to a hill of beans for most of us. If you ride Vail pass or any other place with a lot of non-sledders, you may have a problem, but the areas I ride are pretty much pure sledding and I don't see a problem. As for enforcement, what a joke. Unless they start deputizing Sierra clubbers, I don't see much change there either. I can count on one hand the number of times I even saw enforcement at MC lot last year, but I don't spend my time in the parking lot spooling my turbo compensator either.

We have high tech decibel meter at work. I'll bring it up sometime and we can put some meaning behind these numbers.
 
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Yeah, they'll have to employ more Rangers....and our hard earned OHV stickers will pay for it, INSTEAD of paying for the trail maintenance and whatnot....it's like funding your own murder.
 
i heard they will have the sound mic hiddin inside a dildo so you wont know your being recorded.

I can hardly wait to hear the recordings of this

"Is this going to hurt?"
"naww, just relax"
*muffled fumbling*
*grunt*
"AAHhh!!"
*pfflloooop*
*grunt*
 
90 dB is about the loudness of a large truck about 5 yards away. Motorcycles, snowmobiles, and similar engines range around 85 to 90 dB.

106 dB = timpani and bass drum rolls

100 dB = snowmobile, chain saw, pneumatic drill

90 dB = lawnmower, shop tools, truck traffic, subway

Thats makes me think about the straight piped Harley's that still are "fine" to ride on the street..
And having to listen to them for the 10 s as they go by is bad enough...and yet they drive around town up n down streets, through residential, etc, where hunderds of thousands of people live, or can hear them.

Not saying I want them to be stopped or limited or lawed..but its really quite funny...or out right stupid how such a large crowd like this is left alone. But the few guys out in the mtns, miles n miles away from ANYONE, let alone any THING else are a real hazard....right...yeah...


Maybe I should just get a really loud harley to retaliate.
/new topic Hey guys, whats the loudest exhaust setup I can run on my Harley!?
/new topic What can I add to my bike to make a lot of noise!?!
/new topic What tire makes the loudest squeeling sound when I do a burn out?

haha anyway... off to work on my sled...maybe i won't even be able to go sledding by the time theres snow eh?

check out some of these pdfs showing dB rating son 4 wheelers and diff exhausts.

http://4wheeldrive.about.com/gi/dyn...://ohv.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=23038

there are a lot of stock 4 wheelers over 90 dB...which again I suppose is highly dependant on distance tested from...but...i think we need more info on this?
 
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This is so vague with so many loopholes I can't wait till they write the first ticket then get their arses handed to them at court.


+1 never ride where I have ever seen a ranger, FS or whatever you want to call them except at Vail pass on one of my first rides. No plans on giong back anytime soon :beer;
 
An article from Snowest mag. on the subject....

Slednoiselaw.jpg
 
"The bill only penalizes those who can't leave well enough alone by modifying their machines."

lol?

So, anyone who doesn't ride a STOCK sled is WRONG!

This is written by a CSA employee???? Aren't they for snowmobiling??? What gives?

I need to stop reading this post..these people piss me off.
Which makes me realize really how lame people really are.


We were stopped in Ears once out on the trail and had stickers checked by 2 FS guys. I know I was with Jim on that one.
 
From what I read of the bill, 88db is the limit if the sled is made after July 2, 1975, 90db if older. ATv's are allowed 96 db. The best I can figure on the test is that it is a pass by test where they measure at a distance of not more than 50' (way open for different readings if you ask me) and the vehicle is going the speed limit, whatever that is on the trail.

An affirmative defense is if the sled was made before 2005 and still stock. I guess all stock sleds sold after 2005 are less than 90db from the factory.

BTW, here locally we have 65db noise ordinance after 9pm. A guys hot tub got a ticket once.
 
The 2003 statute:
http://parks.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/7F32...mobileBro03.pdf

It says 84 decibels measured at 20 inches.

This document which is the current snowmobile regulation doc off of the Colorado Department of Parks and Recreation website.

http://parks.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/527F...wmobileRegs.pdf

Except as provided by law, every snowmobile operating in this state shall be
equipped with a muffler in good working order which conforms to the
standards set forth in C.R.S. 1973, 42-4-222, as amended.

Now what is strange is when you look up Colorado Revised Statute 42-4-222, it has NOTHING to do with snowmobiling but talks about the legality of volunteer firefighters having lights on personal vehicles.

This page has an online CRS:
http://www.michie.com/colorado

CRS 33-14-114:
B) Brakes and a muffler which conform to the standards prescribed by regulation of the division, which shall be applicable in all cases, except for snowmobiles being operated in organized races or similar competitive events held on private lands with the permission of the owner, lessee, or custodian of the land, on public lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the division with its permission, or on other public lands with the consent of the public agency owning the land.

Not sure if that link will work:
http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll/c...&2.0#LPHit1


ahhhh

Here we go:
http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f...25-12-110%27%5D

(1) An off-highway vehicle operated within the state shall not emit more than the following level of sound when measured using SAE J1287:




(a) If manufactured before January 1, 1998 99 db(A);




(B) If manufactured on or after January 1, 1998 96 db(A).




(2) A snowmobile shall not emit more than the following level of sound when measured using SAE J2567:




(a) If manufactured on or after July 1, 1972, and before July 2, 1975 90 db(A);




(B) If manufactured on or after July 2, 1975 88 db(A).




(3) (a) A person shall not sell or offer to sell a new off-highway vehicle that emits a level of sound in excess of that prohibited by subsection (1) of this section unless the off-highway vehicle complies with federal noise emission standards. A person shall not sell or offer to sell a new snowmobile that emits a level of sound in excess of that prohibited by subsection (2) of this section unless the snowmobile complies with federal noise emission standards.




(B) For the purposes of this section, a "new" snowmobile or off-highway vehicle means a snowmobile or off-highway vehicle that has not been transferred on a manufacturer's statement of origin and for which an ownership registration card has not been submitted by the original owner to the manufacturer.




(4) This section shall not apply to the following:




(a) A vehicle designed or modified for and used in closed-circuit, off-highway vehicle competition facilities;




(B) An off-highway vehicle used in an emergency to search for or rescue a person; and




© An off-highway vehicle while in use for agricultural purposes.




(5) A person who violates this section commits a class 2 petty offense and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars.




(6) No municipality or county may adopt an ordinance or resolution setting noise standards for off-highway vehicles or snowmobiles that are more restrictive than this section.




(7) (a) Nothing in this section shall be construed to modify the authority granted in section 25-12-103.




(B) Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize the test to produce a less restrictive standard than the J1287 stationary sound test or the J2567 stationary sound test published by SAE international or any successor organization.




(8) The following shall be an affirmative defense to a violation under this section if the off-highway vehicle or snowmobile:




(a) Was manufactured before January 1, 2005;




(B) Complied with federal and state law when purchased;




© Has not been modified from the manufacturer's original equipment specifications or to exceed the sound limits imposed by subsection (1) or (2) of this section; and




(d) Does not have a malfunctioning exhaust system.





Editor's note: This section is effective July 1, 2010.





Source: L. 2008: Entire section added, p. 2103, § 5, effective July 1, 2010.





Editor's note: Section 7 of chapter 416, Session Laws of Colorado 2008, provides that the act enacting this section applies to offenses committed on or after July 1, 2010. The act was passed without a safety clause. For an explanation concerning the effective date, see page ix of this volume.

This is not effective until 2010 but we should still be aware.
 
Found this info on a tree hugger site. I guess the test was developed for testing sleds at Yellowstone.

*Jan. 2004 SAE J2567 stationary test overview: The sound meter microphone is placed 4 feet above the ground, inline with the exhaust outlet/center point of multiple exhaust outlets, on the side of the snowmobile toward which the exhaust is directed, 4 meters distance from the snowmobile longitudinal centerline. The operator holds the brake during the test, starts and runs the engine up to normal operating temperature, then slowly opens the throttle until a steady 3,750 to 4,000 rpm is achieved for not less than 4 seconds. The test is immediately repeated and the two readings averaged.
 
I agree lots of loopholes. I think if your not a complete a hole about things on the trail and at the parking lots you will be fine. I haven't seen but maybe 1 out of 10 -20 riders with stock cans etc. Just be a courteous rider and all will be well.
 
I agree lots of loopholes. I think if your not a complete a hole about things on the trail and at the parking lots you will be fine. I haven't seen but maybe 1 out of 10 -20 riders with stock cans etc. Just be a courteous rider and all will be well.

This is a good suggestion that I also try to follow. Don't be blasting up and down in the parking lot, jumping off of snow banks. When you pass skiers, snowshoers, etc (other parked sleds), don't fly by at 60 MPH. Give people plenty of room. The best way to avoid even getting questioned will be to avoid confrontation, don't get complaints.


I don't think rangers will be looking to give these out, unless they get complaints or there is some tool in the parking lot asking for it.

I don't think it is right that dirt bikes and and summer sport off highway vehicles have a higher decibel level. Most of them have smaller motors than sleds, yet they are allowed to make more noise.

I am also a fan of a quieter can if one can help it.
 
What's so wrong with quiet? That's the piece I don't get; sure, an unmuffled anything is likely to make more power than one WITH a muffler, and IMNSHO, anyone riding public lands/not in a competitive event on a sled, dirtbike, quad, whatever - WITHOUT a muffler at all - is a jackass.

So, we all have mufflers of SOME sort. Good. While it does suck to find that your hotrod muffler is all of a sudden illegal with the stroke of a pen, if it is good for the sport, embrace it.

I'm new to snowmobiling. I've ridden dirt bikes on and off for a long time. I also race cars; I've gotten to like a good muffler. I have to. I used to run mufflers that got me under the limit - but just. Then, more and more tracks/sites started getting closed - "noise" is the #1 complaint. So, I put a Real Muffler on the car. Now, it is quiet - 78-82db at 50'/WOT. It is still fast.

Noise is a problem for all motorsports. Sucks, yes - I like the sound of a good motor at WOT as much as any gearhead.

I like the sound of A MOTOR better than none, though.

Are the sound levels too restrictive? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. They seem pretty low to me.

I do believe that the aftermarket will be forced to prioritize "quiet" more than they have in the past (and in dirtbike land, this has been going on for a while). The more they value "quiet," as "quiet" will equal "sales," the better off we'll be - we'll get decent products from a performance standpoint, but we'll also be "complying" with the "law."

The suckass part about it is simple, though - if "they" complain about "noise," we are being too loud. At least this way, we have a federally mandated set of rules, and we (motorsports enthusiasts, all affected) can say "hey, we're trying, this is what we've done, this is what we're doing."

Dunno. I've had loud (sometimes REALLY loud) cars for years. 20+. I like them. They're fun. Don't anymore, though - there used to be a LOT of _very_ good places to race near Denver. Now, well, not so much - Mead is gone. Stapleton is gone. Second Creek is gone. The circletrack next to Second Creek is gone. PPIR went away, now it is back - but there are houses on the hill RIGHT behind the track. Doomed?

We shall see, but when those homeowners start complaining, I'm happy that we've (local SCCA chapter) got a pretty detailed sound policy in place - we can put forth a good foot, hey, we're trying to be quiet, we want to coexist.

Not "f-u, you're the moron who bought a house next to a racetrack."

Sure, we're all THINKING it, but that does not do any good - homeowners always win. I remember standing at Second Creek (roadcourse NE of Denver) watching them bulldoze lots up on the hill NW of 2nd Creek, and simply knowing the track was done. It took a couple of years, but it was done. Not "I wonder if the track will stay open," but "this place is done." I was right. I don't always like being right.

Our sound testing is wildly subjective. With the new muffler on the car, the best I've seen is ~75db, worst ~88. Go figure. Normally 78-82. Yes, it is SUPER subjective, and yes, it does suck to conceptualize getting a ticket with a stock can, but hey, cross that bridge when you get to it. IMHO, we need to be more supportive of it (and put in the effort to guide such laws, as I'm sure many here do), rather than just bashing it.

Blah blah blah. I'm certainly not saying I _like_ it, but I think it is one of the best things "we" can do to preserve riding areas (snow, dirt, water, racecars) - quieter is better than Xbox.



Iain
 
Mannix, great post. But be aware of this---we could have a 50 db sled and the wacko greenies will still try to defeat us with the FS.

BCB
 
Thanks! I agree - the only thing we can do to TOTALLY satisfy ALL the opposition is keep them in our garages.

That'd probably be bad somehow, too. I've met some wholly unreasonable (and hypocritical, IMHO) "greenies."

I firmly believe that we (OHV people, all of us) should put our collective best foot forward on sound, though - so WHEN we're faced with another pending closure, we can step up to the plate and demonstrate responsibility & a desire to promote multi-use open space in a sustainable, environmentally sensitive manner.

Too many people just throw their arms up & ride around with whatever they've got, expecting the worst and doing little about it beyond "it's our RIGHT!"

It is our right. However, we sound a lot less separatist-militia-redneck-weirdo to "the greenies" if we present them with sound limits, rider education, work parties, etc etc etc.

I've been called a "greenie" before. I'm in the middle, honestly; I use all kinds of public lands - hiking in wilderness areas, biking on MTB legal trails, dirtbikes, four wheeling, now snowmobiling.

When I hike, I typically look for a true wilderness area or open space trail that does NOT allow bicycles.

I don't ride my bicycle on trails legal for dirtbikes or quads.

When I backcountry ski via leg-power, I go to places where snowmobiles are not permitted.

I wish the rest of the "greenies" were as smart as me. There's SO many more non motorized and non-wheeled opportunities, at least in CO and UT, I don't know why it is a problem; I have *never* found myself wishing that I could find myself a hiking/biking trail that did not allow bicycles/motors - I can always, always ALWAYS find the MORE restrictive trail.

Finding the less restrictive? Tough, sometimes, and getting tougher.

Bah. I should get into land-use issues professionally, I can speak "greenie." There ARE some who want to flatly disallow ANY wheeled(tracked?) vehicle, period. They're the fringe-set, just like there are a few of us who think that OHVs should be able to go _anywhere_. In my experience, there's a lot more people in the middle - unfortunately, the loudest ones seem to be the "not in my backyard" types; the trail THEY like IS legal for ______, and wahhhhh, that's not right.

I often wonder if these people drive to work every day, or do they walk?

Shrug. It is a tough issue, no two ways about it, but IMHO, we all need to try to put a positive spin on stuff, get more active, blah blah blah.

Thankfully, I feel like I'm preaching to the choir on this forum, as well as most of the dirtbike forums I read. It is time for a career change, hmmmm, maybe I should look into that sort of thing.


Iain
 
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