Anytime the blue light is on it is reference to seeing boost. Once you have made it trail friendly off boost leave your red, yellow and green alone. The switch point for main jet red blue is a higher number or load, you would not set it low or your main jet would hit right off idle and load engine. Now your green blue is full boost at wide open throttle. If on load it is lean turn gb up. Load is on hill or deep snow, trail or drag race on trail is not load, trail may show good egt but a 4-5 second pull on hill will start to lean out therefore move gb up. Now if boost is increased sled will go rich and gb will need to be moved down. M1000 more critical to boost increase to m8. Also realize ther is a baro sensor in attitude box and will only reset to elevation if sled is shut off. For example you leave play area at 7000 ft and head for trailer at 3000 ft your sled will start to go rich as you descend. This will be noticed by wot going flat as you drop elevation. Shut sled off and restart and throttle crisp again.
M8 RG Twisted Turbo numbers
- Thread starter mt_archery_guy
- Start date
JROD, that makes sense I kept seeing that brad story turbo on your sig and thinking you knew a heck of a lot for running a bd turbo, So are you running the boost tube after the T/B's, did you ever run it the other way and was there a tuning change. Sounds like a better way of doing things but want to know what up first.
I never heard the box had a baro sensor,
I know what the setting do, just checking and seeing if I missed anything, its one of those things the more you talk about it the more it makes sense.
But what is happening to me is , say I go Wot on the trail for 4-5 sec and the A/F hits 12.8, then I let off and get back on it but not full throttle and it sounds like its all but fouling out and doggy, so I back out of it more until it quits, but even out of it and loosing speed the blue is still on, I have to literally back all the way off the throttle (I almost have to push back on the throttle like its hooked to the Throttle safety switch) and then the blue shuts off, its like shutting the T/B's stops it from building Boost. It usually happens in the yellow stage if I keep it in the green it runs fine or at wot. I'm not a trail rider so I'm not worried about it, just curious as its still new to me. I made it a tunnel dump, thought it would quite it down a little and stop the R side bog, still loud as hell unless your in big pow but no more R side bog, its a full 3" exhaust still, I just cut and added pieces, might have something to do with it, maybe the air movement off the track is creating a vacuum and keeps the turbo spooling,
I never heard the box had a baro sensor,
I know what the setting do, just checking and seeing if I missed anything, its one of those things the more you talk about it the more it makes sense.
But what is happening to me is , say I go Wot on the trail for 4-5 sec and the A/F hits 12.8, then I let off and get back on it but not full throttle and it sounds like its all but fouling out and doggy, so I back out of it more until it quits, but even out of it and loosing speed the blue is still on, I have to literally back all the way off the throttle (I almost have to push back on the throttle like its hooked to the Throttle safety switch) and then the blue shuts off, its like shutting the T/B's stops it from building Boost. It usually happens in the yellow stage if I keep it in the green it runs fine or at wot. I'm not a trail rider so I'm not worried about it, just curious as its still new to me. I made it a tunnel dump, thought it would quite it down a little and stop the R side bog, still loud as hell unless your in big pow but no more R side bog, its a full 3" exhaust still, I just cut and added pieces, might have something to do with it, maybe the air movement off the track is creating a vacuum and keeps the turbo spooling,
does yor setup run 4 injectors and if so where are the second set located.
J
JROD
Well-known member
I started with my boost reference in the charge box and then T'd it in to my BOV lines after a few rides. Personally I like it more where it is now.
It sounds to me like your box is reading a boost reference for too long after you've chopped the throttle. There's a lot of things that can cause that bog too though. It's hard to say if it's truly the fuel controller. Seems like everyone always blames the fuel controller first. If you're truly worried about it and can't fix it with fuel, better talk with Shain.
The only barometer in your box is the pressure transducer inside the box that reads your boost. The reason you have to "Reset" this when changing elevation is because the box zeros the pressure settings when you first start it. Pressure is different at 3000' vs 6000'. So yes, if you start @ 3000' and then ride to 6000' you will be running rich.
It sounds to me like your box is reading a boost reference for too long after you've chopped the throttle. There's a lot of things that can cause that bog too though. It's hard to say if it's truly the fuel controller. Seems like everyone always blames the fuel controller first. If you're truly worried about it and can't fix it with fuel, better talk with Shain.
The only barometer in your box is the pressure transducer inside the box that reads your boost. The reason you have to "Reset" this when changing elevation is because the box zeros the pressure settings when you first start it. Pressure is different at 3000' vs 6000'. So yes, if you start @ 3000' and then ride to 6000' you will be running rich.
JROD, some of the best explanation on the workings of the dobeck boxes i've heard yet. Helped me, and im sure others tons im sure. Appreciated!
4 injectors, in T/B. Its a Twisted RG kit. Not worried, I have tuned it out before but then its a whole new thing once I get to where we play. Thanks for the info. For all I know it could need reeds, don't know if they have been done, I bought the sled with 1150miles and has 1400 now. Still learning.
J
JROD
Well-known member
No problem. They are a great fuel controller that is simple once you understand how they work. I won't go into detail but I will say this: The evolution of these fuel controllers isn't over. Advances are being made as we speak.
Not to get into an argument but JROD what is the difference between what I call a baro sensor ( sensor that measures air pressure ) and a pressure transducer. The reason for shutting sled down at a change of a big gap in elevation is to reset. Now I agree that sled will run richer while changing to a higher elevation, It will also run richer when dropping elevation if not reset if you will look at my post. The information I gave was to add insight to the attitude box and how it works and how to adjust. Now this information is for the attitude box only for a turbo application.
H
hatchers
Well-known member
WOW, these tech threads are getting crazy....as a EE its easy to see why i get a bit frustrated reading these.
transducer - a device that takes a variable input modive force and scales this variable input to a variable output force (usually its a mechical type input with an elec output). the input is your boost pressure and the output would be a voltage signal
rough explanation of said transducer:
1psi of boost pressure = 1 volt DC
5 psi of boost pressure = 5 volt DC
10 psi of boost pressure = 10 volt DC
at the end of the day....far too many guys with boost are looking for knowledge with things that simply dont matter on bit, these lawnmower engines and hilly billy turbo kits are extreamly simple once you learn what matters, its not about how much you know, its about what your know
in short:
G/B - works are a course adjustment for WOT
R/B - is a fine adjustment
- all of your numbers ride on top of your fuel pressure, lower fuel pressure will subtract fuel from the complete RPM range and raise your A/F
- lower the fuel pressure if you have a boggy bottom end, and move up your numbers for the top end and mid transition
- most should fine a top A/F of 12.3ish...this settles out 1-2 secs after full RPM...somtimes a a/F of 12 seems cleaner, or maybe 12.5....dont look for some magic number your buddy told you about, find whatever feels better and sounds better, ive ran 13.1 on many miles with straight 112...at the e4nd of the day, but 12.1 seems to work the best on pump fuel for me, you need to find it for yourself and keep an eye on that top end, thinging a A/F guage or EGTs will save your top end is foolish
transducer - a device that takes a variable input modive force and scales this variable input to a variable output force (usually its a mechical type input with an elec output). the input is your boost pressure and the output would be a voltage signal
rough explanation of said transducer:
1psi of boost pressure = 1 volt DC
5 psi of boost pressure = 5 volt DC
10 psi of boost pressure = 10 volt DC
at the end of the day....far too many guys with boost are looking for knowledge with things that simply dont matter on bit, these lawnmower engines and hilly billy turbo kits are extreamly simple once you learn what matters, its not about how much you know, its about what your know
in short:
G/B - works are a course adjustment for WOT
R/B - is a fine adjustment
- all of your numbers ride on top of your fuel pressure, lower fuel pressure will subtract fuel from the complete RPM range and raise your A/F
- lower the fuel pressure if you have a boggy bottom end, and move up your numbers for the top end and mid transition
- most should fine a top A/F of 12.3ish...this settles out 1-2 secs after full RPM...somtimes a a/F of 12 seems cleaner, or maybe 12.5....dont look for some magic number your buddy told you about, find whatever feels better and sounds better, ive ran 13.1 on many miles with straight 112...at the e4nd of the day, but 12.1 seems to work the best on pump fuel for me, you need to find it for yourself and keep an eye on that top end, thinging a A/F guage or EGTs will save your top end is foolish
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J
JROD
Well-known member
So the box runs richer if you change elevation in any direction.....?????
Not to get into an argument, but you sir are wrong.hatchers is right about fuel pressure and box settings. The problem is NOBODY explains any of this to the consumer. They say run this and set up this... So when there's a problem within the system, like a bog, they're clueless. Granted, some of the questions people ask don't matter but you don't know unless you ask.
In a perfect world, people owning turbo sleds would have loads of past experience tuning various setups and could easily tune off of "feel", sound, etc... but the reality of it is that they are being marketed as a dependable bolt-and-go 100hp mod and anyone with $$$ can own one.
Bottom line: You'll never learn how to tune anything unless you ask questions and try different setups and learn from the outcomes.
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This is for JROD and every other jacka%% on this forum that thinks they are the only ones that have the answer to all questions. First JROD when you drop elevation your boost pressure will increase causing the box to add more fuel, remember your pressure tranducer!!!! Am M8 can move from 8-12psi without any adjustment and still run ok an m1000 on the other hand gets fussy if 1psi change is made. Now that said I would prefer to shut sled off at a big change in elevation versus tuning the box. Now since you are the expert why dont you call 406-539-3015 and ask for Derek Fischer. If you need to know who that is that is person who makes the attitude box. Oh and by the way thanks for showing your ignorance. 
This is for JROD and every other jacka%% on this forum that thinks they are the only ones that have the answer to all questions. First JROD when you drop elevation your boost pressure will increase causing the box to add more fuel, remember your pressure tranducer!!!! Am M8 can move from 8-12psi without any adjustment and still run ok an m1000 on the other hand gets fussy if 1psi change is made. Now that said I would prefer to shut sled off at a big change in elevation versus tuning the box. Now since you are the expert why dont you call 406-539-3015 and ask for Derek Fischer. If you need to know who that is that is person who makes the attitude box. Oh and by the way thanks for showing your ignorance.
ya derek is a hard guy to get ahold of i do want to say thanks to everyone about the info people are sharing on here
J
JROD
Well-known member
This is for JROD and every other jacka%% on this forum that thinks they are the only ones that have the answer to all questions. First JROD when you drop elevation your boost pressure will increase causing the box to add more fuel, remember your pressure tranducer!!!! Am M8 can move from 8-12psi without any adjustment and still run ok an m1000 on the other hand gets fussy if 1psi change is made. Now that said I would prefer to shut sled off at a big change in elevation versus tuning the box. Now since you are the expert why dont you call 406-539-3015 and ask for Derek Fischer. If you need to know who that is that is person who makes the attitude box. Oh and by the way thanks for showing your ignorance.
Ignorance??? Are you kidding me? NO Derek does NOT make the Attitude box. Dobeck Performance does. They also make the Pure Logic box. Again, you are wrong!!! I ride with the people that are designing and building the Attitude boxes, the guys that Derek gets his boxes from.
You are right about the fact that your box will add fuel when your boost changes due to elevation but that is only on the boost fueling end because of the boost reference (pressure transducer). It doesn't compensate for a change in the bottom and mid range fuel. If you start your sled at 3000' your box zeros it's pressure setting and if you ride to 6000' without killing the engine, it is still fueling based on the 3000' initial setting. If you then kill the engine and restart it, your sleds computer in conjunction with the fuel controller compensates for the pressure change and pulls a small amount of fuel and make it more crisp.
I don't come on here to act like I know everything. I have only made an effort to help out those that need some tuning advice. From what I can tell, I have succeeded in this effort. You simply gave wrong information and I wanted to clarify this, to debunk the myths surrounding this box.
So before you personally attack me and the information I've given, pull your head out of your arrogant @$$ and call this number. 1-877-764-3337 or go to http://www.dobeckperformance.com
It's truly unfortunate that this is what happens when someone makes an effort to help out a fellow rider...
"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument." ~William G. McAdoo
Ok smart guy this thread for for the attitude box. But since you want to include pure logic give me your knowledge on yellow blue adjustment.
Oh and by the way Derek Fischer is the owner of attitude industries and was one of the original owners of pure logic. tunewithattitude. Thanks again for showing your ignorance. Go ahead and shove both feet up your a$$ now.
J
JROD
Well-known member
Good point sir!
As I stated previously the parameters and modes on this box are adjustable and written by someone with the proper software, like Derek. Pure Logic has set up their boxes so that the Yellow/Blue controls the fuel added by the auxiliary injectors only. Derek writes his software differently.
I know who Derek is. This has nothing to do with anything. There is no more information being added to this thread. I'm no longer going to argue with you. If you don't want to believe the information, I really don't care. This doesn't affect me.
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I did not disbelieve any information I just added some helpful insight it was you that said " you sir are wrong" That becomes the problem if you do not agree with the information why do you pi$$ on my info and then pass on your advise to say I am incorrect. Let our fellow rider use the info and make his own decision. I ride an M1000rg with an attitude controller. I am telling you straight up if I leave elevation 7000' and load at 2000' with out any shutdowns I could not even outrun an m500 serious no foolin. Shut my sled off restart outrun an apex running 14psi. I run mine at 16-18psi. Now you and I both know it should lean out when dropping elevation but it will go rich. Derek will tell you the same. An M8 can have boost adjustments made and not change driveability. M1000 fussy little Bit$$. I do apologize I just get frustrated every time I give advise on my experience and get told I am wrong.
Pony, he said you are wrong about it getting richer going higher or lower, maybe you could explain that, I think he agreed with everything else. So please explain.
I appreciate the info on the shut down and start it as it makes perfect sense if you understand the functions of the box and barometric pressures. It also does help a little bit to keep my HCR running a little crisper if you do it every 1000ft of drop.
BTW
What hatchers Posted was given to me by Tod. One case the builder gave the right information and made sense of it, but I also know more than the average newbie turbo owner. this is the first time I have used this style box and am very comfortable with it now. The more its talked about the more you can learn and understand it.
For starting numbers on a twisted kit you need to talk to twisted, sometimes there are variations that contribute to different numbers and they know best.
I appreciate the info on the shut down and start it as it makes perfect sense if you understand the functions of the box and barometric pressures. It also does help a little bit to keep my HCR running a little crisper if you do it every 1000ft of drop.
BTW
What hatchers Posted was given to me by Tod. One case the builder gave the right information and made sense of it, but I also know more than the average newbie turbo owner. this is the first time I have used this style box and am very comfortable with it now. The more its talked about the more you can learn and understand it.
For starting numbers on a twisted kit you need to talk to twisted, sometimes there are variations that contribute to different numbers and they know best.
I talked to Derek this morning to make sure of my information. He verified there is a baro sensor in the attitude box or a pressure transducer. He said call it what you want it measures pressure wether it be boost or when it is shut down atmosphere pressure which he says is barometric. When you are at high elevation atmosphere pressure is lower when you drop in elevation pressure increases, the controller cannot reset atmosphere because of the positive pressure supplied by turbo even at idle. When you shut down it will reset. Now keep in mind an M8 is not so fussy to this increase but none the less it is rich. An m1000 will from 7k down to 2k will run so rich that you loose almost 1/2 your throttle. Shut down and restart hang on. Not so fussy in up elevation but enough to warrant reset. Now I am only passing info on the attitude as thread was started. I know pure logic has a different software and yb is a reference to high boost and secondary injectors I think. Where yb in attitude is a switch point for yellow or pilot type setting as a reference. My information is based on what I have come to know from Derek, Dale Cutler and hours of riding. I keep my sled so user friendly my daughters can ride it.
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