I have read a lot of posts this year and last year, and talked with a lot of knowledgable turbo junkies, concerning the Attitude Box numbers. It seems the answers vary on what the red and the red/blue modes do.......?
M8 RG Twisted Turbo numbers
- Thread starter mt_archery_guy
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J
JROD
Well-known member
Copy and pasted from another thread...
Red is your main jet adjustment basically. The reason that it's not super critical is because when you're "on your main jet" you're in the boost, which is where your Green/Blue takes over and adds fuel however if you make adjustments on this setting, it will affect the fueling across the whole range of your 'boost fuel'. If it's too rich, you will create a bog on initial boost.
Red/Blue is the switch point for your Red setting. It determines when, across the fuel curve, your Red setting comes in but it is strictly load based which is a complicated value determined by your throttle position and RPM.
Both values can be used accordingly to add fuel to your boost curve but I wouldn't add much as it will overfuel under initial boost and slow the spooling of the turbo. Leaner initial boost will allow you to come into boost faster. Obviously, you don't want to run to lean.
Red is your main jet adjustment basically. The reason that it's not super critical is because when you're "on your main jet" you're in the boost, which is where your Green/Blue takes over and adds fuel however if you make adjustments on this setting, it will affect the fueling across the whole range of your 'boost fuel'. If it's too rich, you will create a bog on initial boost.
Red/Blue is the switch point for your Red setting. It determines when, across the fuel curve, your Red setting comes in but it is strictly load based which is a complicated value determined by your throttle position and RPM.
Both values can be used accordingly to add fuel to your boost curve but I wouldn't add much as it will overfuel under initial boost and slow the spooling of the turbo. Leaner initial boost will allow you to come into boost faster. Obviously, you don't want to run to lean.
As you increase the red number, I am assuming that adds a certain percentage of fuel when you hit your red/blue switch point setting. The red/blue switch point is determined by RPM?
M
mynewuseddoo
Well-known member
Jrod is correct.
To add to his post...
The red setting will effect fuel change of 2.5% and the green/blue (boost fuel) will effect change of 7%. Kind of a fine and coarse adjustment, to put it simply.
To add to his post...
The red setting will effect fuel change of 2.5% and the green/blue (boost fuel) will effect change of 7%. Kind of a fine and coarse adjustment, to put it simply.
The red/blue switch point is RPM......7.0=7000rpm......?
R/B is a load based setting, so if its at 7 it will add fuel at higher rpm under a higher throttle position. If you want to say 7 is 7000rpm it will get you close when at full throttle.
I have only had to add to it once because it was to rich on initial boost so I dropped the G/B and made it snappier in the middle and added R, +2 and R/B, 7
it gave me the right A/F reading with good response, next time out I put in new plugs and shut off the R, havent used it since
I have only had to add to it once because it was to rich on initial boost so I dropped the G/B and made it snappier in the middle and added R, +2 and R/B, 7
it gave me the right A/F reading with good response, next time out I put in new plugs and shut off the R, havent used it since
J
JROD
Well-known member
This is correct except it's a combination of RPM and throttle position....
This is both true and not true...
True in the fact that the Red setting will adjust to a finer degree than the Green/Blue.
But, the percentage change is different depending on whose box you are using. These boxes can be programmed to change the parameters of which the Red and Green/Blue settings are adjustable. There's really no need to get into how these maps are written though.
Both of these values are overlapping on the upper end of the fuel curve so there is a small degree of adjustment you can do on the initial boost fuel but ultimately your Green/Blue is used to adjust your chosen AFR or EGT setting at full boost.
So here is a synopsis of how these boxes work to give you an idea of what the Red is doing and why you may or may not choose to use it:
As you start from a dead stop the box starts on green and moves to the Yellow mid range fuel. As soon as the Yellow comes on, all fuel from the green setting is switched off. This progresses as you move up the fuel curve.
The next setting is Red. Once you hit this setting, the midrange fuel is turned off. This is the WOT mainjet setting.
Now here's is where things get complicated, kind of... In a turbo application you are also adding additional fuel based on a reference of boost.
Once your box gets this boost reference, it adds fuel ON TOP of what your Red setting is already adding. You don't necessarily need this Red setting because anytime your turbo sled is at full throttle, it's already adding fuel based on the boost reference.
It is just used to add small amounts of fuel on top of the boost fuel curve. If you use it to finely tune your EGT temps or AFR while running at full boost take into account you are also adding fuel at initial boost therefore adjusting how quick your turbo will initially spool.
Now if you're running a little lean at initial boost it will spool faster BUT if you ride trails a lot to get where you're going your sled may be running in this low boost area quite regularly and a lean spot is not good. This would cause a burn down if held in this position for too long. Now with the Red setting you can add fuel here and cruise down the trail at a safe EGT/AFR range.
Personally I like the snap and quick spooling feel of an engine so when I hit the trails I have to "Brap" the throttle all the time to keep my temps down.
I hope this helps you to better understand how these boxes work.
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Explain this, On the trail I can get it to spool fast but after a pull when I let off and get on it a little, it sounds like its trying to flood out and gets boggy, But I can go full throttle and clean it out. I have noticed that when it does it the blue light is on on the box, Sometime in the yellow and green range. If I let off the throttle completely (get the blue light to go off) it clears up also. So do I remove G/B and add Red. I'm assuming to much fuel on initial boost but if I lean it out to the point it doesn't do it then my wot A/F reading climb to fast and to high. Seems like the boost fuel is coming in to soon
G 2.5-3 Recommended settings G 3 y 3 r 0 gb 4.5-6
Y 1.5
R 0
gb 4-6
rb 7
Once I get up in the hills I can tune it no problem.
G 2.5-3 Recommended settings G 3 y 3 r 0 gb 4.5-6
Y 1.5
R 0
gb 4-6
rb 7
Once I get up in the hills I can tune it no problem.
What do you mean, its twisted sled I bought used. Still learning.
J
JROD
Well-known member
Your box has a pressure line going into it that is getting a reference from your charge box, charge tube, or throttle bodies to tell it when to add fuel. I'm not sure where Shain is tying this reference into. It's the black piece of tubing coming out the top center of the box.
From my guess it's tied into the charge box....
From my guess it's tied into the charge box....
Sounds right seems like I remember it coming right off the charge box in front of the throttle bodies same line the boost gauge is on (i think), along with another tube running to a 1:1 reg for Fuel.
J
JROD
Well-known member
It needs to be tied in between the throttle bodies and the engine, where you would tie in a BOV. For instance you can tie it into the small brass fittings on the underside of the reed boots.
When you chop the throttle, there is a boost spike in the charge tube and box. This is telling the box to add more fuel.
If you move the reference to behind the throttle bodies, when you chop the throttle, it won't read that boost spike and won't add fuel therefore will recover faster when in and out of the boost, and not loading up the engine with fuel
When you chop the throttle, there is a boost spike in the charge tube and box. This is telling the box to add more fuel.
If you move the reference to behind the throttle bodies, when you chop the throttle, it won't read that boost spike and won't add fuel therefore will recover faster when in and out of the boost, and not loading up the engine with fuel
That's a great explanation JRod. I would have never thought of that, but that is exactly true. When I chop the throttle my boost spikes up quite a bit. Boost gauge [and all other] are tied into the air box.
I have the stock oil inj. How would I tie my boost line into the brass fittings on the bottom side of the throttle bodies? Is that only for the guys with oil inj delete?
I have the stock oil inj. How would I tie my boost line into the brass fittings on the bottom side of the throttle bodies? Is that only for the guys with oil inj delete?
On the Twisted Turbos, the charge tube going to the Attitude box is coming from the air box in front of the throttle bodies just like you remember.
So on the red mode the higher the number, the more fuel you're adding on top of the green/blue mode under boost. The red/blue is your switch point for the red mode fuel.
What and how much difference would ther be if your red/blue mode was 7.5 vs 5.0?
Great explanation by the way!
What and how much difference would ther be if your red/blue mode was 7.5 vs 5.0?
Great explanation by the way!
D
Dano702
Well-known member
Try bumping your yellow down a bit Wyo , i only tune with the yellow and red . And mine is oh so crispy , way faster low end response than a stocker. And i love bliping the flapper through the trees at 12 #.I have never messed the other modes , now you guys got me thinking .
I think the blow off valve gets rid of boost spikes .
I think the blow off valve gets rid of boost spikes .
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J
JROD
Well-known member
You can do it like this...
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231103
Honestly it's not going to be a drastic difference. It's hard to explain because its based off of load. Load varies so much while you're riding so the best thing you can do it play with it and feel the difference yourself. You can watch your box while tuning though and when the red comes on, it's in this mode. Take into account this happens just a split second before it switches into the Green/Blue mode.
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It has BOV in the charge tube, I don't think its from a spike, If a get on it then back out of it and just cruising the blue light will stay on (second or two later) unless I completely let of then get back in it. Seems like its building boost very easy. I think its just from being to rich. Seems like moving the tube after the throttle body seems like a good idea but would completely change the way you tune it. What are you running JROD, where are you getting your info. BTW Thanks for the help. I think my problem is one of those, on the trail problems that really doesn't matter, I would just like to know why and its hard to tell whats going on in the mid with a A/F. maybe I'll throw on egts just out of curiosity.
So are you saying that when the GB kicks in it over rides the R or stacks on top of it.
So are you saying that when the GB kicks in it over rides the R or stacks on top of it.
J
JROD
Well-known member
The G/B stacks on top of the Red.
I'm basically running a Twisted setup. It was built by Brad a few years ago but I got rid of the Boondocker box, updated the fuel system, and added 50mm t-bodies. You would never know by looking at it that it's not a Twisted however Shain has helped me greatly in getting it figured out.
As far as the boxes go, I've got a good friend who builds and programs these boxes for Dobeck and he's a good source of info so they help me out and in turn I try and help out all of you guys.
I'm basically running a Twisted setup. It was built by Brad a few years ago but I got rid of the Boondocker box, updated the fuel system, and added 50mm t-bodies. You would never know by looking at it that it's not a Twisted however Shain has helped me greatly in getting it figured out.
As far as the boxes go, I've got a good friend who builds and programs these boxes for Dobeck and he's a good source of info so they help me out and in turn I try and help out all of you guys.
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