Long Rod PRO Motor

[Norway]

Dan,

Good luck with your product and it is too bad that you feel the need to be negative towards others in the business.. I simply do not operate like that...

Oh, but you do. In a way. This is Indydans thread about HIS LR motor, explaining what he is offering, pricing and why he is convinced this is the way to go.

I'll not say who of you aftermarket guys can throw the first stone... But here you are in a thread about his product. Telling us all where you think he is wrong, masking it as "questions". You know we see right through such word games.

Again, I will not mention anyone from either side, but you have vendors on here who NEVER comment on products from the competition. Not one word!

There is your high road, Kelsey.

You have some great products and many people praise you for them, but I fear there is little to nothing gained by promoting them in "Dans shop".

 

[RKT]

Oh, but you do. In a way.

This is Indydans thread about HIS LR motor, explaining what he is offering, pricing and why he is convinced this is the way to go.

I'll not say who of you aftermarket guys can throw the first stone...

But here you are in a thread about his product. Telling us all where you think he is wrong, masking it as "questions".

You know we see right through such word games.

Again, I will not mention anyone from either side, but you have vendors on here who NEVER comment on products from the competition. Not one word!

There is your high road, Kelsey.

You have some great products and many people praise you for them, but I fear there is little to nothing gained by promoting them in "Dans shop".

[/QUOTE]



Rune

If you see it that way, then that is your choice. I am not masking anything so there is nothing to see through.. You have your opinion and you are entitled to it 100%.. But remember, it is just an opinion.. If I wanted to come on as be negative, I would do so upfront.. No masking required.. Like I said, I try and stay positive and on topic.. No mudslingin' from me..

Not seeing where I even mention ANY of my products in Dan's Shop..??? Stumped on where that came from??

 

[harps500]

I'd like a long rod kit, a wider piston and my wife says I've got some longevity issues. Could you two make peace to help me?

Note: adding extra mass to my block has not helped...

 

[SnotNose]

RKT,
After reading this thread I checked out your web site again. Noticed the claim of no more broken pistons or cylinder skirts with the drop in kit is now missing. Whats up with that?

 

[Norway]

You didn't (want to?)take my point. It's an open forum Kelsey, go for it.

I'm done with this, feel free to dissect my posting vs. yours if you think the world (or the pro) is going to benefit.

I'll keep my eyes open for news on the pro issue, products or theories or failure reports.

This bickering is a derailing and it makes me not want to buy stuff from the guys doing it..

 

[Snowbird11]

While this thread has been entertaining....any predictions on how long before the pro 800's drop in value like the dragon 800's? I'd like to be able to toss in dan's long rod engine but can't see buying a new or nearly new sled and then swinging the extra cost.

on a more serious note and a slight hijack in a better direction,

i don't recall the pre CFI 800's have the same issues in the top end as the poo motors of late. sure the cranks were junk for a few years but if indy dan went through the bottom end of one of those older 800/900 motors and dropped it into a newer chassis, could we end up with a reliable carburated sled? people are putting a lot of money into making an already expensive sled run up to previously acceptable stock levels of performance and reliability. i'm just wondering if there is a more cost effective way of achieving the same goal?

Indy dan, do you have any thoughts on what you could make fit a pro or IQ chassis? I've seen a few folks try the 800big block conversion on the IQ. I'm not sure how it's worked out for them.

 

[TRS]

PRO

All of our PRO failure frustrations need to be focused at the perpetrator.(PII)

If we put this much effort bombarding Polaris maybe we can get them to build a more reliable power plant.

Polaris dodged a bullet this year with low snow across the US. Many low to zero mileage sleds across the country. A large percentage will not see a total of 1000 miles until the end of next season. They will be into year three before issues start.

Our warranty will be moved on to the insurance company.
We/Dealer will need to deal with a third party. Do you think claims will get handled in a timely fashion. They are in the business of making money. If they can deny your claim for any reason they will.
Have you read your warranty document? You will be shocked. They can deny your claim if you use after market clutch weights, or you have the wrong 10- weights for your elevation. Forgot to change your fuel filter at the recommended interval or it was not documented at the dealer, your SOL. Think you can transfer the remaining warranty to another Party when you sell? Without dealer service documentation your SOL.
Ask for a copy, I have read it all. You can get a short version on line but you can only get the full document from your dealer. He has to contact Polaris to get it.
Go talk to your dealer, quiz him on how this so called warranty company is treating him. They don't like it. If you get your sled back within two weeks after the dealer starts your claim, you will be dang lucky.

Now, with all that said. The PRO is the best mountain chassis built by any manufacture to date, period. Now we need PII to give us a power plant to compliment the chassis. I will probably get flack for that statement but that is my personal opinion.

 

[dragonfire]

TRS, very good info, well spoken, as usual follow the money trail. I think Dan offers a great option to people that want this and with a three year warranty. How does it get any better,for the life of me don't know why Kelsey is on this thread. TRS keep up the good posts your experience and wisdom is needed on Snowest.

 

[gman086]

Forget the popcorn, I'll need a turkey buffet to get thru this one! And yeah Kelsey, this is bickering.

I've got a few questions for anyone who'd care to jump in...
1. If the big problem is heat dissipation at the front of the cylinders, wouldn't a better head design with larger water volume act as a heat sink to pull some heat away as that's where the combustion is happening? Call me crazy but I still think Kelsey's head with Indy Dan's motor is the ticket.
2. Again, if the water jacket at the front of the cylinder isn't cooling the exhaust ports enough, why the hell wouldn't we just pull the ECM controlled exhaust valve vacuum assist and let the valves run off of gas pressure??? That would make them open EARLIER = LOWER TEMPS AT THE EXHAUST PORTS (front of cylinders)! This is a trick those "in the know" do for BRP motors. You can also run a more free-flowing exhaust can, like SLP, to drop exhaust port temps (versus, say, HPS or PPP that create more backpressure and higher temps). Would seem like a lot less expensive "fix"! What am I missing here? Honest questions!

Thanks,

G MAN

 

[geo]

Thank-you Dan. Exactly the answer I expected if the truth was being told. You don't get to that weight without a little sacrifice. I'm going to stop in at your shop this summer on my vacation tour and line up a quick turn around for me 2013 clutches if possible.

I'm buying my first Poo Pro with the expectations of an over-achieving 700 in a lightweight chassis. It'll be fun.

VERY interesting thread on personalities and fact or fiction opinions.

One more question from a new Pro RMK owner. Dan, if I was your mother LOL, and you set up my stock sled with enough oil and fuel, and I liked to go out with the ladies mountain riding 5 days a week instead of bingo, how often would you ask me to come home and have my pistons checked or replaced?
I know you would drop in YOUR engine for me because you love me LOL. But, what if I am just too independant or stubborn to listen and stay stock?

 

[mr.deeds]

I just read this entire thread..... (naturally that shows how dumb i am,,,, so don't have high expectations of anything i will say).

But- It seems to me that both "solutions" should work. Often there are more than one way to attack a problem- and I think that both of these do that- Obviously the short rod can work (because it does in the other brands) but you have to address the other issues. And the long rod addresses the same problems (with more cost but a better warranty) At least that's how i see it.

 

[pura vida]

Oh, but you do. In a way. This is Indydans thread about HIS LR motor, explaining what he is offering, pricing and why he is convinced this is the way to go.

I'll not say who of you aftermarket guys can throw the first stone... But here you are in a thread about his product. Telling us all where you think he is wrong, masking it as "questions". You know we see right through such word games.

Again, I will not mention anyone from either side, but you have vendors on here who NEVER comment on products from the competition. Not one word!

There is your high road, Kelsey.

You have some great products and many people praise you for them, but I fear there is little to nothing gained by promoting them in "Dans shop".

i think i says a lot when a guy who writes, speaks, and reads english as a second language, gets this impression from rtk. intended or not, it is kinda hard to argue it doesn't come across that way.

pv

 

[indydan]

. I'm going to stop in at your shop this summer on my vacation tour and line up a quick turn around for me 2013 clutches if possible.

I'm buying my first Poo Pro with the expectations of an over-achieving 700 in a lightweight chassis. It'll be fun.


One more question from a new Pro RMK owner. Dan, if I was your mother LOL, and you set up my stock sled with enough oil and fuel, and I liked to go out with the ladies mountain riding 5 days a week instead of bingo, how often would you ask me to come home and have my pistons checked or replaced?
I know you would drop in YOUR engine for me because you love me LOL. But, what if I am just too independant or stubborn to listen and stay stock?

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

OK, Sorry I was out of town all week-end.

Lots of things for me to read thru. I will return to address all questions shortly.

Dan

 

[indydan]

Originally Posted by indydan
You started it. I hate this sh!t.

You posted your drop in kit & your big bore. then you followed that by saying there was no problems with anything other then the piston.

Never said that EVER... Again.. no need to post things that are simply untrue.

I said I am addressing an issue. (and I am). Not fixing ALL the issues associated with the engine.. Check it out.

Just offering a viable and affordable solution to one of the engine's shortcomings...

It is not stated anywhere where there are not other issues associated with that engine.. We both know that the engine is not perfect..

Check it out.. the website is public as are these forums.


You started this, I have been trying to stay away from thrashing you about all this for the last 4 weeks. But you keep coming at me.

I have NEVER come at you,, You entered My FYI threads on the Pro with negativity.. I have NEVER stated anything negative about you or your products on this forum.. EVER.. You can not say the same.
I Simply am offering a solution to problem.. nothing more.. and asking a few questions.

Hopefully, last post to clear up a few things.. Please see above..

I entered your FYI thread ( Rare for me ) You have tried to perfect this move. You knew I offered a longer rod, & you said plain and simple right to the point ( The 800 PRO does not have a rod ratio problem )
The motor has a poor rod ratio and because the piston is hot the poor rod ratio over stress the piston. ( I address it my way, You address it your way.)

Your questions are rarely questions, They are set-ups most of the time and when you direct them at me they most often backfire.

The bottom-line is the people want to hear every angle there is on the Polaris 800 Small Block. And you love to blow your horn, So I blew mine back. I did not say anything to slander you or you shop. I said do a search.........It is no secret I hate forged pistons. Chances are I have bored more cylinders and installed more pistons in sleds & outboards then anyone on this forum and many other forums added together. ( Forged pistons fail more then any other piston period. ) And when I say fail I mean fail sooner and lose power faster then any OEM Polaris Piston ever made. Forged pistons expand more then OEM cast, So in order to run them...........You have to do 1 or more of a list of things.

#1 - run more clearance
#2 - run more top to bottom taper
#3 - Drill them with oil holes where ever there is an exhaust bridge
#4 - Cam cut them and reduce them in size more in places where they are prone to stick.

If you measure a Polaris cast pistons in 10 key places and make a matched sized forged piston and run the same clearance the forged will stick the first time you hit the throttle with a cool motor.

This is not a guess, This is hard cold facts. Wiseco told me years ago That the forging process does not permit high silicon content. Low silicon
pistons bend & over expanded. Thats what they do.

I started my business building forged piston big bores. Train wreck is all I can say.


Steel sleeves & OEM clearances with wiscos still spells desaster in many motors. I did 2 outboards within the last 2 years both Dealers were at a cross roads for piston size and wiseco was the easy way out. Both went down the first time out.

Kelsey I don't know what kind of piston your running and I do not care.
Thats your business. The picture I saw of your 858 cylinder looks just like a forged wiseco was in it that was to tight. seen hundreds and hundreds of them. Same look different story.

Bottom-line - You can say what you want to say, I can say what I want to say.

I came on here addressing an issue - I back it with a warranty. ( My Choice )

You came on here addressing an issue - You don't back it with a warranty ( Your choice )

As you say its an open forum.

Dan

 

[d8grandpa]

Thanks Dan for the entertaining reading, it makes for good off season pastime !
Ps. The 4 clutches you did for me last fall worked awesome. We had a great season.

 

[indydan]

While this thread has been entertaining....any predictions on how long before the pro 800's drop in value like the dragon 800's? I'd like to be able to toss in dan's long rod engine but can't see buying a new or nearly new sled and then swinging the extra cost.

on a more serious note and a slight hijack in a better direction,

i don't recall the pre CFI 800's have the same issues in the top end as the poo motors of late. sure the cranks were junk for a few years but if indy dan went through the bottom end of one of those older 800/900 motors and dropped it into a newer chassis, could we end up with a reliable carburated sled? people are putting a lot of money into making an already expensive sled run up to previously acceptable stock levels of performance and reliability. i'm just wondering if there is a more cost effective way of achieving the same goal?

Indy dan, do you have any thoughts on what you could make fit a pro or IQ chassis? I've seen a few folks try the 800big block conversion on the IQ. I'm not sure how it's worked out for them.

d8grandpa, Good to hear you had a great winter and all worked out good for you.

Snowbird - The stock small block is the way to go by far. the big block water pump design & oil pump does not work well with the PRO chassis.

The 800 small block is a great motor when its done correctly.

The EFI is very dependable its the OEM wire harnesses that really suck.

The small block crankshaft is also a great crankshaft you just have to make sure you have the brass drive gear checked out before you hit 4000 miles if its completely a stock bottom-end.

Dan

 

[AndrettiDog]

Wow, good information, thanks for the great info IndyDan. I was very skeptical about your first post but you explained some stuff that the average guy like me just didn't know. I'll keep you in mind for my 2013 clutch and my 2011 Pro.

One last thing...is your warranty transferable to the next guy?

 

[indydan]

Yes the Warranty is transferable.

Wow, good information, thanks for the great info IndyDan. I was very skeptical about your first post but you explained some stuff that the average guy like me just didn't know. I'll keep you in mind for my 2013 clutch and my 2011 Pro.

One last thing...is your warranty transferable to the next guy?

Great question. Thanks for asking,

Yes, it is fully transferable. However the new owner must call and transfer the warrranty into their name and pay $150 transfer fee.

Dan

 

[coolx2]

Dan, thanks for all the great info. If I were to go with youre long rod motor what kind of miles can we expect to get out of it before rebuild ? thanks in advance.

 

[Pro-8250]

Sooooo. This question is intended with all seriousness, so an intelligent response would be appreciated.

How is it possible for a backyard shop (not specifically this manufacturer, rather all of those offering a fix-it-kit) to come up with a "fix" fir a motor that was designed by multiple highly paid engineers with huge budgets and testing resources?

I mean is there really a need for a "fix", what are the actual failure rates across all of the engines produced, has it been exaggerated by a few pissed of people with access to a forum, is the problem much bigger than it should be so someone can sell a fix to a problem that doesn't really exist?

Polaris started out as a backyard shop.