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Lolo, Surveyor, HooDoo, Lookout--Stateline Riders Assn: 2014-15

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Great questions Scott that have been topics for doctorate dissertations at MSU and other schools. Buried surface hoar is our biggest problem in western MT. It's easily destroyed on the snow surface. Ski or sled compaction, sun, warm temperatures and wind help prevent later problems. Once buried, it is insulated from the effects of sun, wind, moderate temperatures and in some cases it can't be stabilized by heavy ski or sled traffic as demonstrated by the large avalanches next to Bridger Bowl this year. Check out the Saddle Peak Q & A on the Gallatin NF Avy Center's video archive for an excellent and informative talk on the close call near the ski area. http://www.mtavalanche.com/video/youtube

As far as the layer we're concerned about in our area, I am certain it is the very same layer you looked at when you took the students to Lolo Pass. At that time, it wasn't buried very deeply and was starting to show signs of strengthening, but then it quit snowing and we had several episodes of cold clear nights which allowed these already faceted crystals to be exposed to a huge temperature difference from the buried layer to the surface which allowed the crystals to continue getting bigger and weaker over a period of several days. Then we started getting some snow. Continued snowfall and settling over time also helps destroy or at least strengthen these buried surface hoar layers. In this case it was not enough to make a difference in the temperature profile of our snowpack or to crush the crystals into a more rounded condition. Around Presidents Day weekend we started hearing about and seeing significant avalanche activity involving this layer that continue to this week. It kind of snuck up on us. Lots of close calls involving this layer.

So the quick answer is that during normal years with decent snowfall, these layers gain strength more quickly than they do during years when we have shallow snow and infrequent storms like this year. Unusual snow and weather conditions often give us unusual avalanche conditions. Most locations are moderately stable now but whenever conditions change quickly, like rapid warming or a heavy load of snow (like right now) on any slope that has this persistent weak layer, it's time for a high level of situational awareness and carefully evaluate the slopes we want to ride on. Time and timing is everything.

Hope this helps. This is a complex topic that has taken me years to wrap my head around. This year just made it even more complex. No snow is no good!
 
damn it!!!

I was hopin that wasn't the news.

Hate to hear about these younger guys goin down.

My heart sinks now when I think about leaving my loved ones behind.

prayers to the family.
 
Steve, thank you very much for taking the time to explain that.
Really, everything you said is very logical and makes a lot of sense. It also doesn't confilct with anything that I have previously learned.

Thank you very much.

--Scott
 
Scott any chance of a screen shot from the google for us non tech savy folks?

One of the guys from the spoko thread was involved in this slide....he was one of the buds. Rough deal for him and all the others. He hasn't said to much yet but says he may share some more in time.
 
Sure....whatcha want a screen shot of?



4 more inches during the night. 19" since Sunday evenning.
 
Here are the coordinates that avyfire posted.

Cut and paste them into Google Earth.

47 03' 25.47"N , 115 06' 45.56"W

I emailed it to you as well.
 
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for those of you that don'tget over to the other site. Graveyarded posted this yesterday....

Thanks everyone. His wife and family are doing ok. Everyone is trying to keep busy. I'm holding in there, Red is really having a hard time. Him and TJ were very close. The service saturday should be a sight. We are inviting anyone who has rode with TJ to bring there sleds friday afternoon to the Nazarene church gym so we can honor him with what he loved doing. Also the family wants us to all wear either Skidoo or Fox jersey's to the service. It will be at 2pm Saturday at the Nazarene Church Gym. And I promise I will let everyone know what happened last sat. We are all pretty busy. Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers. Also just found out that his graduating class donated there entire class fund to a college trust for his unborn child. Gotta love small communities

I don't know about you fellas, but I plan on wearing Fox gear all day Saturday....even to Easter service.
 
I hope so too. I heard about it twice today when I was in town.
Crazy Red said it was on the news and I got a phone call from a buddy in WA checking up on me.
 
Avy danger

Just heard about the slide in Missoula lake today from a friend at work. I am glad to see the community coming together for the family. I was planning to go to Survey this Sat but I think it just might be to crazy right now. Thanks for asking the questions Scott. I think I will head to Seeley again. Anyone heard how that areas is doing this week? Butte has been getting snow almost every night this week. Scott do you think it is safe to go back to Survey this week or wait?
 
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