Lets talk Motec stand alone ECUs

[supraturbo]

Neil, you are ruleing over Snowest like a watch dog in every section of the forum, I CLEARLY see you don't know what you are talking about when talking about electronic fuel injection(e.f.i.) or have no idea what tuning mean......if you keep out of those threads talking about e.f.i. and tuning e.f.i. then i will not remind you who you are, until then i will track you and every time you are opening your mouth not knowing what you are saying, i will do to you exactly what you do to others on here......

p.s. why aren't you asking your buddies at snowest to open a new section entitled: NEIL the car dealer with the famous boost-it... then you and your riding buddies can hangout in there and stop calling other guys idiots,SNOWEST INSTEAD OF SNOWEAST,SNOWMIDWEST ECT....?

 

[supraturbo]

neil, i forgot, make sure you and all your riding buddies thumb down all of my post so my reputation(snowest ranking) go down and marked in red.....but guess what ?? i don't give a $hit about it.

 

[taylorbok]

supraturbo what standalone do you make/ use I would like to look into it. put this thread back on track

 

[supraturbo]

supraturbo what standalone do you make/ use I would like to look into it. put this thread back on track

pm sent....thanks

 

[Duke]

neil, i forgot, make sure you and all your riding buddies thumb down all of my post so my reputation(snowest ranking) go down and marked in red.....but guess what ?? i don't give a $hit about it.

In case anybody wonders who, I gave you some thanks and green rep to help you get back on track, it will be ok........just get some sleds in the mountains and do some testing/tuning like MCX, Impulse, Alpine, Boost-It, etc, only point I'm trying make

Let us know how the Vipec progresses when you get them there. Someone will probably get it to work someday, better hurry though, others have a head start on you!! Until then we'll be way back in the Alpine ripping up deep pow and slaying chutes

 

[supraturbo]

In case anybody wonders who, I gave you some thanks and green rep to help you get back on track, it will be ok........just get some sleds in the mountains and do some testing/tuning like MCX, Impulse, Alpine, Boost-It, etc, only point I'm trying make
this is the kinda post making your point.I clearly understand your view of a new product coming out and i am aware we are behind for now on the reputation side of the market and will try very hard to have some ECU out west for you guys to try.

Let us know how the Vipec progresses when you get them there. Someone will probably get it to work someday, better hurry though, others have a head start on you!!
we do acknowledge that...
Until then we'll be way back in the Alpine ripping up deep pow and slaying chutes
will try to head to AB/B.C. very soon but final production units will make it around mid-november. then we will try to catch up!

..,

 

[Duke]

Not being negative Supra, just asking again, do you have any sleds racing at Haydays?

 

[supraturbo]

Not being negative Supra, just asking again, do you have any sleds racing at Haydays?

like i said earlier, we are focusing for now to have package deal mapped correctly for november therefore no racing for us for this semester for sure......we are open to sponsor some racer tough....!

 

[SSWIM]

Supra, whatever happened to the Arctic Cat stand alone???

Sam

 

[supraturbo]

Supra, whatever happened to the Arctic Cat stand alone???

Sam

along the way, we have decided to focus on the 800cc and 600cc polaris for multiple reasons.....with the standalone we have now, only an interface between the ecu and wiring harness of the 800cc is requiered to have the cat screaming!1 it is our plan to build the interface for the cat later this winter.

 

[SSWIM]

Curious as to why you abandoned the Cat system when you were supposedly so close. Seems there were FAR more Cat turbo owners interested in that type of system than Polaris owners.


Sam

 

[Zipperno]

..Quote:
Originally Posted by NM View Post
Oh boy..your back
You are like a bad cough I just can't shake.
I have a remedy for you....Simply stop to jump on other guys like you do all the time and let them express themselves and stop calling them stupid when they aren't sharing same opinions . AND since snowest is a payable service, guys from the east,midwest,out of the country are welcome on here so you and your buddy DUKE can stop babbling about this once and for all.
Ok I will bite, and I am sure you know the size of injectors that you will have to replace the stockers with? How much money they are?
No need to replace stocker up to a certain hp level(depend on the hardware you use) then a new set of injectors is 189$....

How about this...we both post vid of how our fuel systems work in the mountains, and we can't post again until we post a vid.
How old are you?? seriously...
Sound fair?
No it doesn't sound fair.Do you realy think Motec and Vipec(multi million $$ company) aren't sending out working standalone plug and play ECU ?
I have proof...you have none.
Better be carefull on that....it is simply not the timing for us to let go all information/video(marketing strategy)
I will go first, when you have vid, then you can post on Snowest again?
Do you realy think a home made video is all it takes....?
You have been babbling about a fuel system for 2 years and have not showed anyone anything?
Realy....!!go back to the thread you hijacked in the polaris pro ride section and whatch again the teaser video.....you know that little aluminum cased computer with vi-pec engraved on it , it is called a ECU and look at it carefully.it is not a mirage it is real,in fact if you want one i have one for you......2 years is a long time but we have a world class COMPLETE package.....we didn't borrowed 1985 technology from someone else and put our name on it like you did.Oh didn't i tell you we can modulate 2 staged injection MAP based exactly like you do with boost-it??? it is one of hundreds function we can do with a real standalone ECU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Zxthpva50
Ok here goes.

Supraturbo!

No one is denying that you have a capable ecu, like Ive said before Vi-Pec is one of the best standalones out there.

BUT building the maps for them is a whole different story. It takes alot of time to get a map working good under all conditions. How many hours do you think Yamaha puts into making their sleds run perfect under all conditions? Building a perfect map in the dyno isnt possible, and all the sensors and tables wont cure it, 3d or 6d doesnt matter.

Thats what we want you to show us! Most have learned that just saying it works doesnt mean ****..... Show us!

 

[supraturbo]

Supraturbo!

No one is denying that you have a capable ecu, like Ive said before Vi-Pec is one of the best standalones out there.
yep.

BUT building the maps for them is a whole different story. It takes alot of time to get a map working good under all conditions.
i have to tell you if hardware is fully functionnal, it takes no more than a week to perfectly tune a turboed sled on the dyno and 95% of the work done(engine dyno where you control engine load from 0-100%) then a few hours up in the mountain is ok. How many hours do you think Yamaha puts into making their sleds run perfect under all conditions?
not that much actualy, most of their time is spent on endurance runs and quality control of the complete package. a manufacturer can tune their engine inhouse with engine dyno and climate chamber(with altitude changes and compensation)
Building a perfect map in the dyno isnt possible, and all the sensors and tables wont cure it, 3d or 6d doesnt matter.
i agree with you BUT after the engine dyno session, not too many things need to be perfected, again few hours in the mountain is enough afterward. the biggest problems come from hardware not being reliable or constant.

Thats what we want you to show us! Most have learned that just saying it works doesnt mean ****..... Show us!
even if i want to show you now, it is impossible there is no snow! it won't be too long before you see some sleds of our own out in b.c. and ab

...

 

[Boyko]

This thing will work for brad on his 1100 because he knows enough, is determined to make it work and it is not complicated by a turbo. I might get flamed for this post but I am sick of this guy running down other efi systems when he has not tested his product or had any others reviews it.

This last post raises some questions with me, how long have you been tuning efi turbo sleds sleds or do you? I do not think you get you hands to dirty at all you talk more like a sales man. No way you are going get this thing running perfect on a 2-stroke turbo mountain sled in a few hours in the hills after you dyno base map is done. The VE table on a boosted 2-stoke is not consistent like a 4-stroke, do you know that? Has your pro tuner ever worked with 2-stroke turbos before? You said you had over 10,000 km of testing on the 1000 turbo cat, how many motors is that, even perfectly tuned that motor will not last worth $hit under heavy load. One thing that is getting missed here is the hardest most unforgiving platform you are going to put this thing on is a turboed 2-stroke mountain sled and your saying it is easy. You got no idea what you are up against and yet you have the odasity to tell NM he does not know jack about EFI…………...WTF I don't ride with Neil or use any of his products, met him once, he is a nice guy. When he says it takes frick all for time to set up his controller I believe him. How many hours do you have into yours? How many hard miles do you have on the Vi-pec turbo 800 polaris anyway?

 

[supraturbo]

This thing will work for brad on his 1100 because he knows enough, is determined to make it work and it is not complicated by a turbo.
It will be complicated by a turbo and yes it will work because we are going to make it work. I might get flamed for this post but I am sick of this guy running down other efi systems
WTF is your problem?? where in this thread have i put someone down??
when he has not tested his product or had any others reviews it.
do you realy think we built a complete ECU and not tested it?? what kinda stupid person would do that? spent hundreds of thousand $$ and not testing? Boyko command.

This last post raises some questions with me, how long have you been tuning efi turbo sleds sleds or do you? I do not think you get you hands to dirty at all you talk more like a sales man.
you are right on this. i am not knowing 1/10 of what our engineer knows. for me i watch these guys going and learn a lot of theory and yes i am not having my hands too dirty,BUT i don't need to with this ECU it is a plug and play!!! No way you are going get this thing running perfect on a 2-stroke turbo mountain sled in a few hours in the hills after you dyno base map is done. how do you know that Boyko? have you ever built an ECU? what have you ever accomplish to be so pissed? Are you an electronic engineer? what is your record with electronics? What is your tuneing background to be so skeptical?
The VE table on a boosted 2-stoke is not consistent like a 4-stroke, do you know that?
the volumetric efficiency(ve) regulated by the fuel table is "supposely" linear(remember a engine is simply an air pump nothing more), however on a boosted application lots of things can alter the linearisation but very often a fuel pressure regulator will make trouble (not keeping pressure egal 100%) therefore causing trouble on VE(fuel table) that is why with our software we have data logging and you can review fuel table datas and use " the mixture table" to correct any number missed by forcing the computer to add absolute value where you see it is not running right.
Has your pro tuner ever worked with 2-stroke turbos before?
No he never did....., we built this ECU in our basement and called vipec if they wanted to put their name on it !! i think your are not too smart asking or pretending stuff like that
You said you had over 10,000 km of testing on the 1000 turbo cat, how many motors is that, even perfectly tuned that motor will not last worth $hit under heavy load. One thing that is getting missed here is the hardest most unforgiving platform you are going to put this thing on is a turboed 2-stroke mountain sled and your saying it is easy.
I have to repeat it again, yes it is not too complicated to tune when you have the right tools. might sound impossible for you but that is what we do for a living tuning air pump(that is what all motors are)
You got no idea what you are up against
REALY!! built an ecu and don't know what we are againts to?? in fact we took control of what we were againts to BOZO ehe sorry Boyko.
and yet you have the odasity to tell NM he does not know jack about EFI…………...WTF
yes i have the odasity and will say it again, Neil is not an e.f.i. tuner at all, not saying he can't have a running sled put together but he is not an e.f.i. tuner, neither are you.
I don't ride with Neil or use any of his products, met him once, he is a nice guy.
far from me pretending he is not a nice guy....rude in business i can pretend tough.
When he says it takes frick all for time to set up his controller I believe him. How many hours do you have into yours?
Over thousand hours...
How many hard miles do you have on the Vi-pec turbo 800 polaris anyway?
None....did you know it takes snow to ride a snowmobile? what we give customer is the complete control of ALL functions and All sensors and extra inputs and outputs. never have i pretend this will be magical, but certainly will give people COMPLETE control over the motor and all other components. It won't cure too hot charging temps turbo sled with no intercooler delaminating reeds, it won't cure bad setup, it won't cure hardware problem, but it will cure all of the software problems taking over all functions and sensors and extra of them (wideband a/f, extra egt, tacho(rpm) for turbo compressor wheel not to over boost ect..)It is opening a complete new dimension for power kits(head,pipes intakes ect.).there is not only turbo in this world.
To be honest, i can see you have no clue at what an ECU is so if you are sick of this thread/discussion why aren't you just moving to another thread?? you are making me loosing precious time answering stupidquestions like that. Move on with your life dude ........OH AND THANKS FOR THE THUMB DOWN AGAIN!!! WHY AREN'T YOU JUST THUMBING ME DOWN AGAIN!! IT IS AMUSING YOU AND YOUR BUDDIES??KEEP GOING.....I WILL SOON SEE YOU ALL IN PERSON, SOON VERY SOON.

...

 

[SSWIM]

Supra, I think the entire issue here is credibility. You are stating you have an ECU ready to supercede other peoples units. The only problem is it has not been seen. You have posted that extensive testing has been done on the AC unit, but said unit has not materialized or been seen. Now you are developing the Polaris unit. Is it going to be the same?? A bill of goods that does not deliver??? No bash, just curious.

You are debating back and forth with NM in regards to his system. Stating he knows nothing in regards to FI is not helping your case. NM has a system on the snow, it works WELL, and is available to the public!!! I am not a cheerleader for NM, nor do I have his system. I do however have the ability to research and see the results, on the snow, in regards of said system. Most sledders want something that works well, without having to know the specifics of, and mapping a system for their sled. IE. Something they can plug and play without having an engineering degree in electronis. Simple is better. Produce something that works and I believe many will purchase said unit.

Again, no bash, just an observation in regards to this ongoing debate.

Sam

 

[jsandgren10]

This thread is interesting. I am all for more available systems for sleds, just don't like people going back and forth on who's is better, etc. As it stands it seems Impulse is about the only one with full standalone in the 4stroke market here in the West, and the system works great for us mountain guys. Or you have NM's boost-it that is a great alternative for those that have different systems initially and want the most out of their engine with little tuning that is simple, no laptops needed.

As for Motec being all that, it is good but I was not that impressed when Ive seen it on some sand rails. One on a subaru turbo 2.5l that ran awesome until the ECU crapped out. And then one on a Blown LS2, while it ran awesome at sea level it ran like crap at 5000 feet. It took someone to fly out to the dunes with their laptop to tune it in right. Now it runs great and has 2 maps to run, one for higher elevation and one for lower. But it still didn't compensate like I thought it should.

There may be people that want to spend $3-5k on a fuel system that are pro racers, but I don't find it justifiable to spend that much on top of a turbo system when there is already a full kit that works just as well.

 

[Vi-PEC Powersports]

Supra, I think the entire issue here is credibility.
i agree with you.
You are stating you have an ECU ready to supercede other peoples units.
You are wrong, this is the only TRUE standalone ecu on the market plug and play with build in CDI taking control of ALL the snowmobile functions....si it is not a piggy neither a controller, or what ever you called the rest of the pack. I am not saying it is a miracle whatever but for sure nothing seen yet.
The only problem is it has not been seen.
do you realy think VI-PEC is puting their name on this for fun? so did Motec with the Apex?? You have posted that extensive testing has been done on the AC unit, but said unit has not materialized or been seen. Now you are developing the Polaris unit.
Well, when we moved the project to new zealand , we knew the 1000cc a/c was about to disapear, so we switch to the sled i ride the most and in wich we gauged the market better.
Is it going to be the same??
i have a perfect working ecu in my hands as i am typing this!
A bill of goods that does not deliver??? No bash, just curious.
understand your concerns and also understand you are not bashing also. it is the real deal this time.

You are debating back and forth with NM in regards to his system.
that is not true, Neil doesn't have a system, he bought that system from a company who is selling this for 25 years now.....ask him?
Stating he knows nothing in regards to FI is not helping your case.
i won't let someone with so little knowledge (e.f.i.) jumping on me like a tiger and do not respond. I am where i am right now because i am a fighter and when i start something i am finishing it....i'm on a mission and will stop when i am done. NM has a system on the snow, it works WELL, and is available to the public!!! I am not a cheerleader for NM, nor do I have his system. I do however have the ability to research and see the results, on the snow, in regards of said system.
what people seems to forget is i am currently offering an electronic control unit to take over all functions of the sled and can manage any inputs like boost, NOS, ect...i never mentionned it is going to ride better than any other system....it is simply a factory like more advanced ECU so if you can read between the lines.....
Most sledders want something that works well, without having to know the specifics of, and mapping a system for their sled. IE. Something they can plug and play without having an engineering degree in electronis. Simple is better. Produce something that works and I believe many will purchase said unit.
It will be up to our dealers to adapt mapping to their hardware/application so end customer will have a plug and play application. We will select a handfull of dealers(5) in north america and make sure the are up to the task and fully trained for this ecu/software combo.

Again, no bash, just an observation in regards to this ongoing debate.

Sam

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[Duke]

You are wrong, this is the only TRUE standalone ecu on the market plug and play with build in CDI taking control of ALL the snowmobile functions....si it is not a piggy neither a controller, or what ever you called the rest of the pack. I am not saying it is a miracle whatever but for sure nothing seen yet.

You sure about that? Might want to broaden your search a little farther. Your not the only one running the Vipec.

 

[Vi-PEC Powersports]

This thread is interesting. I am all for more available systems for sleds, just don't like people going back and forth on who's is better, etc. As it stands it seems Impulse is about the only one with full standalone in the 4stroke market here in the West, and the system works great for us mountain guys. Or you have NM's boost-it that is a great alternative for those that have different systems initially and want the most out of their engine with little tuning that is simple, no laptops needed.

As for Motec being all that, it is good but I was not that impressed when Ive seen it on some sand rails. One on a subaru turbo 2.5l that ran awesome until the ECU crapped out. And then one on a Blown LS2, while it ran awesome at sea level it ran like crap at 5000 feet. It took someone to fly out to the dunes with their laptop to tune it in right. Now it runs great and has 2 maps to run, one for higher elevation and one for lower. But it still didn't compensate like I thought it should.
i agree with you on one thing, the tuner make the ECU!! all is in to perform good but if bad tune...then bad results.We are tuning subaru sti evry week or so , we have 9 sponsored subarus in canadian rallye championship full throttle competing, we have done this week a lotus exige s supercharged with full standalone replacement v88 vi-pec and the guys is going to race the new foundland targa rally next week-end(he is from guadeloupe) and all our motors hold great, but we never know!

There may be people that want to spend $3-5k on a fuel system
It is 1799$ retail
that are pro racers, but I don't find it justifiable to spend that much on top of a turbo system when there is already a full kit that works just as well
no one as an obligation to buy this ecu you know, but what is working just as well for you do not mean it is working just as well for others......how can you dump 15lbs boost and not tune timing?? see where i am going?
i do appreciate your comments tough.

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