Just looked at an ad for a 2012 Pro for sale with only 600 miles and a new motor

[OuraySledder]

totally wrong assumption in my opinion..

ALL motorized equipment with gas or diesel engines have had to meet epa new standards and most if not all have exceeded older engine life sixfold and as well much increased reliability...except for the most part the snowmobile industry...

So tell me...why do all the others have the brains to work with EPA living with less oil and gas with increased engine life/milage and reliability but the sled industry seems to be one of the few that cannot..??

The EPA is a barrier im certain...but not an excuse..

Your reading and comprehension skill seem rather limited. I have already adressed this in an earlier post. The FACT is, Cat has NOT, thus far had to meet the same standards as Doo and Poo. They accumulated credits from the EPA for selling enough 4 strokes in their fleet. The thrttle body injected Cat motor does not meet the same standards as Poo and Doo motors currently. Ask the Doo guys how theri motors used to last... pistons every season was the norm. Even the early e-tec motors had a recall for new pistons by 1200 miles. Doo seems to have gotten on top of it, Poo is still struggling a little but getting much better by most reports.

Two strokes are very different than four strokes, I love th analogy to the automotive industry but it really doesn't apply. OR, you could ask the deisel truck guys what they think of EPA mandates that have ruined deisel fuel economy and reliability for the sake of emmissions.

It is OK to not pay attention but it makes you look kind of silly when you try to do that AND argue a point.

 

[OuraySledder]

Turn up your oil pump. Looks like your just chasing your tail. One post your saying they are more reliable and then the next you say it's the EPA fault. So which is it?

Then you have a 24 year old saying how unreliable new sleds were in the 90's.

Thanks Fred... oiler has been turned up since right after break in. Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me. That would be good advice for bigman though should he ever buy a Pro.

 

[Reg2view]

Your reading and comprehension skill seem rather limited. I have already adressed this in an earlier post. The FACT is, Cat has NOT, thus far had to meet the same standards as Doo and Poo. They accumulated credits from the EPA for selling enough 4 strokes in their fleet. The thrttle body injected Cat motor does not meet the same standards as Poo and Doo motors currently. Ask the Doo guys how theri motors used to last... pistons every season was the norm. Even the early e-tec motors had a recall for new pistons by 1200 miles. Doo seems to have gotten on top of it, Poo is still struggling a little but getting much better by most reports.

Two strokes are very different than four strokes, I love th analogy to the automotive industry but it really doesn't apply. OR, you could ask the deisel truck guys what they think of EPA mandates that have ruined deisel fuel economy and reliability for the sake of emmissions.

It is OK to not pay attention but it makes you look kind of silly when you try to do that AND argue a point.

He's dead right, they didn't come out with C-TEC2 just to show they could spend the money. All goes back to the credits that started with the Yellowstone Special and are unsustainable. Motors drive sled costs, period, both development and production (I've worked for the OEMs and seen the data). Do you think the highest cost producer, AC, opened a St. Cloud motor facility to NOT reduce costs. Poo has issues with a lightweight, overbored small block and SDI system ups and downs. They could do better, but it will cost us more, again. I'll keep buying.

SCR (urea) tech for clean diesels (think 18 wheels now) is the perfect analogy for OTR vehicles - huge EPA driven development, production, operating, and warranty costs - all pushed down to us, again, the consumer, via price inflation on everything. Society empowered these govt agencies, Society will pay the bill.

 

[snowmobiler]

keep on buying those new spendy poo's.they are fun to spank with a POS $3000 beater xp.LOL

 

[Slick]

I bet CRFred, er whatever, won't say anything about you takin a personal shot. But we've already established he's one-sided.

I'm actually a pretty mellow guy. I've got a lot of friends I guess, never really have any problems with anybody. I let my friends know when they say something dumb though. If you can't do that with your friends without trouble or a fight, they probably aren't really your friends. Don't mean to toot my own horn but

But now we're way off topic.......which was essentially about what, lack of cash or lack of confidence in a product? Either way, it's an individual's problem, not an industry's. Spin it however you want it. That's really what it boils down to.

Just letting you know man .........you said a whole bunch of dumb things .

 

[ndC7M8]

Just letting you know man .........you said a whole bunch of dumb things .

Thanks for the input, friend

 

[m8magicandmystery]

[Quote:
Originally Posted by m8magicandmystery View Post
totally wrong assumption in my opinion..

ALL motorized equipment with gas or diesel engines have had to meet epa new standards and most if not all have exceeded older engine life sixfold and as well much increased reliability...except for the most part the snowmobile industry...

So tell me...why do all the others have the brains to work with EPA living with less oil and gas with increased engine life/milage and reliability but the sled industry seems to be one of the few that cannot..??

The EPA is a barrier im certain...but not an excuse..



QUOTE=OuraySledder;3526023]Your reading and comprehension skill seem rather limited. I have already adressed this in an earlier post. The FACT is, Cat has NOT, thus far had to meet the same standards as Doo and Poo. They accumulated credits from the EPA for selling enough 4 strokes in their fleet. The thrttle body injected Cat motor does not meet the same standards as Poo and Doo motors currently. Ask the Doo guys how theri motors used to last... pistons every season was the norm. Even the early e-tec motors had a recall for new pistons by 1200 miles. Doo seems to have gotten on top of it, Poo is still struggling a little but getting much better by most reports.

Two strokes are very different than four strokes, I love th analogy to the automotive industry but it really doesn't apply. OR, you could ask the deisel truck guys what they think of EPA mandates that have ruined deisel fuel economy and reliability for the sake of emmissions.

It is OK to not pay attention but it makes you look kind of silly when you try to do that AND argue a point.[/QUOTE]











your right..i can not argue with you when you make my argument better then I can with your very own words in your post

"Doo seems to have gotten on top of it"


ps...do you really think the old evinrude TWO STROKES are near the quality engine of the new epa standard evinrude TWOSTROKES..

Evinrude outboards produce two-stroke direct-injected engines ranging from 25 hp (19 kW) to a 3.4L V6 300 hp. .

In 2003, after Bombardier acquired the Evinrude and Johnson Outboards brands, the questionable FICHT technology was replaced by E-TEC direct injection. This improved fuel efficiency and reduced emissions, oil usage, noise levels, and maintenance needs. This is due in part by a pin point oiling system which only applies oil to the necessary components, unlike the original two stroke motors. Evinrude E-TEC was the first outboard engine technology to win the American Environmental Protection Agency 2004 Clean Air Excellence Award, which recognizes low emission levels.[1]

so please ....continue....you make points soooooo much easier to validate...

 

[ndC7M8]

Well, that's a good point to bring up. What is the rise in cost on the newest bombardier outboards compared to what they used to be? I'm sure they don't come very close to the same in initial cost or maintenance costs, or repairs if something did go wrong. One thing that no one has considered in this thread is the human factor contributing to failures/breakdowns.

 

[Reg2view]

keep on buying those new spendy poo's.they are fun to spank with a POS $3000 beater xp.LOL

Yeah, got one of those. Two revs, too. XP runs well in a straight line in the meadow, or down a trail. That's where my kids run it.

 

[Slick]

Yeah the XP is my wife's choice also, she just sits and turns the bars to steer , kinda like trying to sidehill a quad .

 

[Leaf27]

Aaaaand Bigman has nowhere else to go with his "argument" (insert 'whining') so he's resorting to bad rep instead. Thought you were done with this thread two times already? Go ahead, push the red button. I have one on my screen too.

And this is different from the red rep you gave me??? I did not bite and give you a red or whine and complain about it. Your posts just get dumber and dumber.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Well, that's a good point to bring up. What is the rise in cost on the newest bombardier outboards compared to what they used to be? I'm sure they don't come very close to the same in initial cost or maintenance costs, or repairs if something did go wrong. One thing that no one has considered in this thread is the human factor contributing to failures/breakdowns.

don't know...I have a sailboat so my big horsepower is 9 hp Honda...lol..
all I know is I sure use to feel sorry for the fella,s bringing in their newer big Yami outboards in for maintenance or work..

But I sure love the little Honda...but these are four strokes...I have no experience with the new outboard two strokes but the new big hp Evinrudes sure did out pull the Yami 4stroke in the commercials a few years back for what that is worth...same prop pitch etc..

 

[ndC7M8]

And this is different from the red rep you gave me??? I did not bite and give you a red or whine and complain about it. Your posts just get dumber and dumber.

Wasn't talking to you. I was talking about the guy that comes on, lays down a couple poorly worded, vague & whiny posts, then leaves after he hears the things he didn't really wanna hear as opposed to people just agreeing with him and whining because he's got nothing left to validate his argument and just resorts to bad rep.

You keep responding with short posts where you basically just call my posts BS and dumb. You have yet to offer anything constructive towards this thread, so once again, I ask why my posts are dumb or BS? I gave you bad rep because you're being a dink and disagreeing because you don't like me. You have no real response for any real detail in any of my other previous posts, but you can take the low road and point this one out just so you can call me dumb because it's probably the simplest post so far in this thread, being easiest for you to come up with what you find to be a suitable and witty post that might make me feel bad about being me. But, it's still another useless, meaningless post of yours leading to a long winded explanation from me as to why you have done nothing good for anyone by picking a forum fight with a 24 year old who apparently pays more attention to and cares more about the snowmobile industry than you.

So, if you wanna be big butt-buddies with a whiner looking to stir the pot of old issues that most everyone here is aware of, be my guest. Just try to be more informed and sound less "dumber".

 

[Xrider]

Another option worth considering is a Summit Sport 800...$8500. and a 4 yr. warranty.

 

[Wyo 1000]

Now my head hurts from reading all this crap!