Just looked at an ad for a 2012 Pro for sale with only 600 miles and a new motor

[Jaynelson]

To lay down the cash for a newer sled is hard to do when you have no faith in the quality of what you're buying. It sounds like maybe some of you guys don't worry about the debt or you're money comes easier than mine. One thing about it... what you allow is what will continue.

Some guys are being a bit harsh here, but I was sincere with my Yamaha question. If quality is your number one concern, I don't think anyone on here will argue that they are tops. If you are willing to give up 20% performance for a 50% reliability increase (totally made up numbers, but that's the idea)....I think that's the way to go. OR in the 2-strokes, a 600 Pol or Doo has always been a more dependable choice than the 800 versions. A new yammy or 600 2-stroke will still be lightyears ahead of the late 90's rigs in handing and ergos.

As with anything...if you want the highest performance/most powerful/lightest weight offerings...they will be more maintenance-intensive. That would be the same with cars, boats, etc.

 

[ndC7M8]

If you're gonna buy a new sled for yourself so your buddy can ride, you mean you're going to provide the means for him to take a snowmobile trip via your equipment and you're still gonna talk like you think snowmobiling is getting out of hand price-wise?

Sell your powerstroke, sell your trailer, sell your sleds. Buy a car big enough for you and a few buddies and rent sleds.

You're either gonna pay to go play with sleds and own more current technology, or you're not! Simple as that! If it's getting too expensive then don't expect to own new machines. If you don't have a new machine, don't pass judgement on others based on figures you read online. I didn't pay $12k for my sled, and it's given me zero trouble in a season & a half. I didn't pay $12k for the last brand new sled, guess what, zero trouble with that one over 2 years as well. I paid around $8k for a brand new '08 M8 several years ago, almost 2000 issue free miles. I don't understand what you're getting at? You think one guy has an overpriced sled with a vague description and now you have a big problem with the cost of this sport? If you think people are gonna stop buying sleds and affect the overall MSRP of machines throughout the industry, you're wrong. If you're mad the used sled market is more expensive than when you bought your late 90s rides, tough. To me, the used market is soft. You can pick up some awesome sleds for way under dealer prices with fairly low miles. If you don't believe me, check the swap meet section, check bisman.com, check eBay, check dealer lots and see what you get.

What you said can bring up a host of arguments. You go once, maybe twice a year now? Is the powerstroke neccessary?

Is a new sled needed depending on how many miles and how hard you ride and the terrain you ride?

Do you really need to provide means for others to participate?

Do you like it enough to justify spending more money on newer stuff?

There are no hidden schemes or master plans in the snowmobile industry. They're just businesses capitalizing on a growing market (in certain segments of course). No ones out to get you. If you've been around it as long as you say you have, how is price increase all of a sudden a shocker, and no, you can't go comparing when you got into snowmobiling to what snowmobiling is now. A new sled now is ten times the machine that a sled was 12-15 years ago. And a 12 year old sled is newer than your machines.

People are gonna find this harsh, but does anyone really ever like hearing the truth instead of something that just makes them feel better about themselves?

 

[BigMan]

I don't understand what you're getting at? You think one guy has an overpriced sled with a vague description and now you have a big problem with the cost of this sport?

A new sled now is ten times the machine that a sled was 12-15 years ago. And a 12 year old sled is newer than your machines.

Let me try to explain it again. I don't care if a new Polaris cost $20,000.... IF IT WAS RELIABLE. And by reliable I don't mean making it 1500 or 2000 miles. I mean 5,000 - 10,000 miles or more, without a FXKIT, or fuel controller or any of the other bandaids. Why should the consumer have to pay $12,000 for a sled and then feel lucky to get 2,000 miles on it without overhauling it? Does that really sound acceptable? If so, then like I said before, your money must come easier than mine. Everyone says these Pros need different pistons, so after paying $12,000 why should the consumer have to buy the correct pistons for it??? For $12,000 shouldn't Polaris be able to put the correct sized pistons in at the factory? And it's not one or two isolated events. There is thread after thread on this forum about these issues. Shouldn't Poo be able to get it right if guys on this forum have been able to figure it out??

A chain is only as good as it's weakest link. New sleds have better suspension and handling and all, not going to argue that, but what good does that do you when you're being towed out because Polaris didn't put the right sized piston in you're new $12,000 Pro and you blew a case apart from a broken piston skirt?? And before I forget, if you think a Pro has a better power plant than my 17 year old 97 700 RMK than you and I will just have to agree to disagree. And I know, a 17 year old sled having a better engine than a new one, shocking isn't it? And there lies the problem.

 

[BigMan]

Some guys are being a bit harsh here, but I was sincere with my Yamaha question. If quality is your number one concern, I don't think anyone on here will argue that they are tops. If you are willing to give up 20% performance for a 50% reliability increase (totally made up numbers, but that's the idea)....I think that's the way to go. OR in the 2-strokes, a 600 Pol or Doo has always been a more dependable choice than the 800 versions. A new yammy or 600 2-stroke will still be lightyears ahead of the late 90's rigs in handing and ergos.

As with anything...if you want the highest performance/most powerful/lightest weight offerings...they will be more maintenance-intensive. That would be the same with cars, boats, etc.

I've considered a Yammy but prefer the polars chassis, although after ten years of waiting for them to get their powerplant right I may eventually change my mind.

 

[BigMan]

Exact reason i bought used with a blown motor, have it fixed right and still cheaper than new.

That's not a bad idea.

 

[OuraySledder]

Thanks for clarifying your rant. Now let me help re-direct your anger to the correct recipient.... the EPA.

Both Ski Doo and Polaris have had MAJOR engine issues since the inception of the new EPA rules. The EPA wants two stoke sleds to dissappear, so they made rules to try and encourage manufacturers to dump them. Consumers WANT 2 stroke sleds because they work the best. Arctic Cat and Yamaha have done an end run by building more 4 stroke machines. Cat is to the point where they are going to have to clean up their dirty but reliable 2 strokes, they have run out of credits allotted them for selling 4 strokes.

To make them run clean you have to burn less fuel and oil. The 2 stroke requires lots of fuel mixed with oil to run properly and deliver the power we are accustomed too. Cleaning them up is what has caused most of the problems. Turning up the oiler and running a fuel box helps these engines to live much longer lives.

Is the Polaris engine flawed, yes. The only "fix" it really needs is a $400 set of pistons around 1000 miles and it should be good for a couple thousand more. For most mountain riders this is several seasons.

I don't know about you but I ride mine like a madman. I expect that it could break at any time. I accept that, because while your 90's sleds will go more miles, they just are not any fun to ride. The Pro is light years ahead of the tanks you own.

Would I prefer that Polaris get it right? Sure, but these are seriously high strung machines, much more so than the junk you are trying to compare them too. From what I have seen Polaris has been listening and losing top sales spot to a more reliable SkiDoo is certainly going to register with them.

My new Pro blew a QD belt at 150 miles. Polaris provided me with a free, updated replacement. I haven't had any other issues thus far in over 400 miles from new. I WILL do pistons this summer, I understand and accept it. Unfortunately it is the price you pay to have a thoroughbred in the stable. I see people waste a whole lot more money on things I do not understand (diesel trucks for one) but do not begrudge them because it is their choice, their money. My money definately doesn't come easy. I am on a "tight like bambi" budget to make it work but it is worth it.

If I had to ride the old junk you have, I too would give up sledding. You have been offered solutions but just seem to want to complain. I would prefer you write a letter to the EPA then because they are truely the ones that should get the blame for the last 5 years or so of unreliable 2 strokes.

 

[geo]

When is it going to snow again?!! I spent #### and it's been over 2wks!! I remember when it was fresh every day (I think).

 

[Jaynelson]

I've considered a Yammy but prefer the polars chassis, although after ten years of waiting for them to get their powerplant right I may eventually change my mind.

Buy a 600 Pol....those motors have a great track record. An 800 would be my first choice....but if the choices were ride a 600 or quit sledding...well....?

 

[BigMan]

Thanks for clarifying your rant. Now let me help re-direct your anger to the correct recipient.... the EPA.

Both Ski Doo and Polaris have had MAJOR engine issues since the inception of the new EPA rules. The EPA wants two stoke sleds to dissappear, so they made rules to try and encourage manufacturers to dump them. Consumers WANT 2 stroke sleds because they work the best. Arctic Cat and Yamaha have done an end run by building more 4 stroke machines. Cat is to the point where they are going to have to clean up their dirty but reliable 2 strokes, they have run out of credits allotted them for selling 4 strokes.

To make them run clean you have to burn less fuel and oil. The 2 stroke requires lots of fuel mixed with oil to run properly and deliver the power we are accustomed too. Cleaning them up is what has caused most of the problems. Turning up the oiler and running a fuel box helps these engines to live much longer lives.

Is the Polaris engine flawed, yes. The only "fix" it really needs is a $400 set of pistons around 1000 miles and it should be good for a couple thousand more. For most mountain riders this is several seasons.

I don't know about you but I ride mine like a madman. I expect that it could break at any time. I accept that, because while your 90's sleds will go more miles, they just are not any fun to ride. The Pro is light years ahead of the tanks you own.

Would I prefer that Polaris get it right? Sure, but these are seriously high strung machines, much more so than the junk you are trying to compare them too. From what I have seen Polaris has been listening and losing top sales spot to a more reliable SkiDoo is certainly going to register with them.

My new Pro blew a QD belt at 150 miles. Polaris provided me with a free, updated replacement. I haven't had any other issues thus far in over 400 miles from new. I WILL do pistons this summer, I understand and accept it. Unfortunately it is the price you pay to have a thoroughbred in the stable. I see people waste a whole lot more money on things I do not understand (diesel trucks for one) but do not begrudge them because it is their choice, their money. My money definately doesn't come easy. I am on a "tight like bambi" budget to make it work but it is worth it.

If I had to ride the old junk you have, I too would give up sledding. You have been offered solutions but just seem to want to complain. I would prefer you write a letter to the EPA then because they are truely the ones that should get the blame for the last 5 years or so of unreliable 2 strokes.

Tell me something I don't know about the EPA. And it sounds like I struck a nerve by putting down your Pro. My apologies as I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I truly am sorry, but I think I made my point pretty clear in the first three sentences of this thread, it's just too many people think they know more than they do and therefore need to be handfed. And it seems like you enjoy saying I'm riding junk which is fine. They definitely don't have the technology of the new iron, not disputing that, but they also don't have a monthly payment, or the front end glued together, or the drive shaft coming apart, or need tunnel support brackets, or a FXKIT every 1,500 miles. But what do I know, apparently you guys are the experts.

I'm done with this thread since apparently some of you can't have a conversation without taking it personal. And a thanks to those who posted that didn't.

 

[rmscustom]

Your problem is you want race car performance with the maintenance cost and reliability of a daily driver. No such thing.

Fact is a 70lb engine putting out 150hp that is put in a chassis that allows it to be ridden to extremes that was never even dreamed about in 1997 is going to need maintenance. And yes pistons are maintenance items like it or not.

 

[Leaf27]

Holy crap rough crowd in here, guy is just stating the obvious about the price of this sport. It amazes me how keyboard warrior's spend so much effort to insult someone. Funny thing is I read about the first couple words of ndC7M8 posts and that's it he is blocked. He should not waste his time typing paragragh's of BS, cause I am sure I am not alone.

Back to topic. The price and quality is all based on innovation, we the consumer are paying to push the sport to new levels.

 

[ndC7M8]

Holy crap rough crowd in here, guy is just stating the obvious about the price of this sport. It amazes me how keyboard warrior's spend so much effort to insult someone. Funny thing is I read about the first couple words of ndC7M8 posts and that's it he is blocked. He should not waste his time typing paragragh's of BS, cause I am sure I am not alone.

Back to topic. The price and quality is all based on innovation, we the consumer are paying to push the sport to new levels.

This guy is living in a fantasy world where he thinks he should be able to put 10-20 thousand miles on a mountain sled and still be on the leading edge of technology, and also seems to think it should be worry/maintenance free as we'll. He still seems to firmly believe that everyone pays full retail on their machine but can't afford to pay for it without financing it. (If you comprehend, as well as read, you will plainly see this in his last post). He is stating the obvious, don't you find that stupid? Who here doesn't know what the cost of snowmobiling is these days? Doesn't anyone here remember what old sleds, like pre 90's and even early 90's were like to maintain and keep running well for a long time? Why is my post BS? This guy is b*tching about not having enough money to play with new toys like the rest of us who ride Pros on the Pro Ride forum and my post is BS? He wants a new sled more advanced than his with the same or better reliability for less money, and what I have to say is BS? What world do you live in?

 

[ndC7M8]

Tell me something I don't know about the EPA. And it sounds like I struck a nerve by putting down your Pro. My apologies as I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I truly am sorry, but I think I made my point pretty clear in the first three sentences of this thread, it's just too many people think they know more than they do and therefore need to be handfed. And it seems like you enjoy saying I'm riding junk which is fine. They definitely don't have the technology of the new iron, not disputing that, but they also don't have a monthly payment, or the front end glued together, or the drive shaft coming apart, or need tunnel support brackets, or a FXKIT every 1,500 miles. But what do I know, apparently you guys are the experts.

I'm done with this thread since apparently some of you can't have a conversation without taking it personal. And a thanks to those who posted that didn't.

1: the beginning of that sentence is spot on
2: mine was paid for in cash (check) just like the last 4 I have purchased
3: refer to #1
4: Polaris made damnn sure mine didn't, get a good dealer
5: I'm 310 pounds and mine doesn't need tunnel supports. Ride smarter, I guess
6: We do own Pros, so yeah, I guess we would have a little more knowledge about the subject at hand, wouldn't we?
No comment on the fix kit, since mine runs strong and only has 700 some odd miles

 

[ndC7M8]

Let me try to explain it again. I don't care if a new Polaris cost $20,000.... IF IT WAS RELIABLE. And by reliable I don't mean making it 1500 or 2000 miles. I mean 5,000 - 10,000 miles or more, without a FXKIT, or fuel controller or any of the other bandaids. Why should the consumer have to pay $12,000 for a sled and then feel lucky to get 2,000 miles on it without overhauling it? Does that really sound acceptable? If so, then like I said before, your money must come easier than mine. Everyone says these Pros need different pistons, so after paying $12,000 why should the consumer have to buy the correct pistons for it??? For $12,000 shouldn't Polaris be able to put the correct sized pistons in at the factory? And it's not one or two isolated events. There is thread after thread on this forum about these issues. Shouldn't Poo be able to get it right if guys on this forum have been able to figure it out??

A chain is only as good as it's weakest link. New sleds have better suspension and handling and all, not going to argue that, but what good does that do you when you're being towed out because Polaris didn't put the right sized piston in you're new $12,000 Pro and you blew a case apart from a broken piston skirt?? And before I forget, if you think a Pro has a better power plant than my 17 year old 97 700 RMK than you and I will just have to agree to disagree. And I know, a 17 year old sled having a better engine than a new one, shocking isn't it? And there lies the problem.

Reliable/Better

choose your words more carefully, put them in the right places, figure out what you're going to say before you type it.

The engine in my 2013 Pro RMK is certainly BETTER than the engine in your sled. You happen to have a sh-t load of miles on yours without any trouble (as far as you'll admit or remember), that doesn't make it better than every Pro RMK, because I guarantee plenty of sleds like yours DID have trouble somewhere down the road.

Im not in this game to keep one sled forever and ever and expect it to perform year after year. I happen to be realistic. I guess my money does come easier than yours, as it doesn't bother me to spend money on stuff that I want. Does that make me feel bad in any way?

NO

 

[Pro-8250]

We had two 2011 800 PRO RMK's. No problems other than one ETS. (Warranty)
We now have a 2013, and a 2014 800 Pro RMK. Zero problems.
And yes, if it comes down to it it? I would Snow Check a 2015! I believe it will be a game changer.
Anyway, great thread, whether anyone thinks it's plus or minus.

 

[ndC7M8]

We had two 2011 800 PRO RMK's. No problems other than one ETS. (Warranty)
We now have a 2013, and a 2014 800 Pro RMK. Zero problems.
And yes, if it comes down to it it? I would Snow Check a 2015! I believe it will be a game changer.
Anyway, great thread, whether anyone thinks it's plus or minus.

This thread is the start of one of those few times you actually hear people really tell the "good" about a product and come out to stand behind it. You always hear from people who have bad experiences no matter what the subject may be. I've had nothing but good luck with my two Pro RMKs, and have plenty of friends who have had great luck as well. But what would I know really, I personally have only owned two of them, a first year production and a first year of big innovation (2011 & 2013).

 

[OuraySledder]

Tell me something I don't know about the EPA.

I must have, otherwise you would not have needed to even start this stupid thread...

And it sounds like I struck a nerve by putting down your Pro. My apologies as I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I truly am sorry, but I think I made my point pretty clear in the first three sentences of this thread, it's just too many people think they know more than they do and therefore need to be handfed.

Don't flatter yourself... you are incapable of hurting my feelings. I seems as though YOU are the one with the bad information and seriously outdated notions. Who were you handfeeding exactly?

And it seems like you enjoy saying I'm riding junk which is fine.

I have spent plenty of time riding sleds like yours. I have met LOTS of guys who think they can ride where the new sleds go on their modded old iron. Those are usually the guys stuck somehwere because they couldn't horse their ancient donkey over an obstacle or through the deep snow.

I too would give up sledding if that is what I had to ride, can't blame you.

They definitely don't have the technology of the new iron, not disputing that, but they also don't have a monthly payment, or the front end glued together, or the drive shaft coming apart, or need tunnel support brackets, or a FXKIT every 1,500 miles. But what do I know, apparently you guys are the experts.

I also haven't had problems with the things you have listed. I accept that a set of pistons is maintenance. In addition, my sled starts right up after being upside down, unlike your sleds that still have carbs. My sled wieghs 100 lbs less and has more power. It also has considerable more suspension travel and a rider postition designed for standing not sitting. The PRO is light years ahead. Heck, my '05 M7 would leave that old junk for dead on the mountain and it is bone stock. You would enjoy riding much more if you modernized your equipment. No wonder you don't understand.

I'm done with this thread since apparently some of you can't have a conversation without taking it personal. And a thanks to those who posted that didn't.

Is that the second or third time you have posted you were out of here? Seems to me you showed up with a pretty antogonistic attitude, inferrring we must be idiots for spending so much on supposedly flawed machines. What exactly was the point? We alredy know they cost too much and are too fragile. What do you suggest a picket rally at the Roseau factory demanding better sleds for the money? What a pointless debate.

 

[Leaf27]

This guy is living in a fantasy world where he thinks he should be able to put 10-20 thousand miles on a mountain sled and still be on the leading edge of technology, and also seems to think it should be worry/maintenance free as we'll. He still seems to firmly believe that everyone pays full retail on their machine but can't afford to pay for it without financing it. (If you comprehend, as well as read, you will plainly see this in his last post). He is stating the obvious, don't you find that stupid? Who here doesn't know what the cost of snowmobiling is these days? Doesn't anyone here remember what old sleds, like pre 90's and even early 90's were like to maintain and keep running well for a long time? Why is my post BS? This guy is b*tching about not having enough money to play with new toys like the rest of us who ride Pros on the Pro Ride forum and my post is BS? He wants a new sled more advanced than his with the same or better reliability for less money, and what I have to say is BS? What world do you live in?

Your 24 years old, you really remember brand new sleds from pre 1990? Maybe your getting mixed up with old used sleds you remember that did not run properly. Common, it's his opinion, there is no need for you to take personal shots at him.

 

[harf69]

I really think the guy has a point it has gotten expensive to play when compared to dirt bikes, quads or say wheelin heck for the price of a sled u can by a jeep and go out and enjoy the outdoors with the whole family. U just can't do it busting 3 feet of freshies lol. I ran an 08 turbo for 5k trouble free miles before a top end. I believe they all should be able to do that. Because what happens is the first guy buys the sled new runs it for a season or 2 puts 1500 miles on it and then the guy that can't afford new comes along and buys it and gets a few hundred miles and blows it up. Now he is making payments on a sled that needs a 3k engine.He couldn't afford the sled cash how is he going to afford the engine? It happened to a friend of mine last year at the snowest ride in cook. He had 2200 miles on it. What it really comes down to is 12k me may not mean what 12k means to u. And if it was a cash only sport I don't think this sport would exist. Because most of the peeps with real money are giving it to sierra club to stop peeps like us from being in there woods

 

[ndC7M8]

Your 24 years old, you really remember brand new sleds from pre 1990? Maybe your getting mixed up with old used sleds you remember that did not run properly. Common, it's his opinion, there is no need for you to take personal shots at him.

He can have his opinion all he wants about stuff he has experience with. He has nothing other than these forums to form an opinion on these newer machines, so I'm not gonna sit here and let him say the cost of snowmobiling now is a joke when he has no first hand account of it. Ignorance spreads lies. And yes I'm referring to old USED sleds that need maintenance, which, if you've been paying attention, is what he is referring to as well. Someone else's old machine that might need repair down the road. He just seems especially upset about the increased initial cost of newer used sleds. Apparently nothing else in his life has been subject to inflation, as it seems to be a foreign concept to him in this case.

You can feel bad for him if you want, but to me he's just finding everything wrong with our new toys to try to make us feel bad for even having them because he's upset that he can't afford to play anymore.

You were right before. I shouldn't waste my time on BS like this because all this guy is doing is starting crap on the pro ride forum to get a rise out of us because he's bored over at the wedge chassis forum. And unfortunately for me, I don't have much self control or patience when it comes to dealing with morons.

Don't you think pro ride owners themselves have covered the topics at hand enough over the past 4&1/2 years? It's not a surprise to any of us, nothing new has been brought up. What else could he be here to accomplish other than stirring the pot?