anyone else have some good news like this? something to get that ugly feeling out of the bottom of my gut.
It's a sad day
- Thread starter beamslayer
- Start date
anyone else have some good news like this? something to get that ugly feeling out of the bottom of my gut.
D
doobie
Active member
tore into my motor yesterday to find a cracked cylinder skirt.2011 with 1400 miles sled came off warranty oct 6/12. ordered rkt pistons right before i tore into it....to little to late. on a lighter note i was bragging to kelsy about how i ride with a bunch of pros and none of us have issues lol. have oil pump turned up, mix oil in gas, always warmed up to 120 blah blah blah. really sour that these dam mills dont last. p.s. sled ran perfect before i tore it down.
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Vfrtrader
Well-known member
Talked to the gurus today
Went to the Sled Show in SLC today, talked to many experts Polaris, mtnkt, slp. Notice that BS's pistons are fine, it isn't sloppy pistons smacking the skirt that made crack it. It was the cylinder expanding and contracting that made it crack. A long rod fix wouldn't have changed anything. A beefed up skirt might have. Would mountain tek's fatter piston made it worst, perhaps a seizure. Polaris put sloppy piston in there for a reason. It's the short blocks cooling problem causing the expanding/contracting cylinder that is causing all the problems. I have no solution for this problem. How do we keep the motor cool enough so the cylinder stay the same size? That's the $2900 question. What do ya'll think?
Went to the Sled Show in SLC today, talked to many experts Polaris, mtnkt, slp. Notice that BS's pistons are fine, it isn't sloppy pistons smacking the skirt that made crack it. It was the cylinder expanding and contracting that made it crack. A long rod fix wouldn't have changed anything. A beefed up skirt might have. Would mountain tek's fatter piston made it worst, perhaps a seizure. Polaris put sloppy piston in there for a reason. It's the short blocks cooling problem causing the expanding/contracting cylinder that is causing all the problems. I have no solution for this problem. How do we keep the motor cool enough so the cylinder stay the same size? That's the $2900 question. What do ya'll think?
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R44guy
Well-known member
VFRtrader, Yes heat has been one of the other underlining concerns but several of the engine builders believe that a longer rod has a small enough change to allow for additional cooling even though the port timing has only had a slight change and the new 13's have slightly altered port timing now too. Only testing time will tell the true out come on the long rod motors and on the 13's. Obviously Carl's big bore kit appears to be a permanent fix but it is pretty costly and should not be needed.
I agree with VFtrader on this cracking and ring flaking. Heat is a motors number one enemy. How close do you monitor your motor temp while riding? I have a 12 163 pro and only had it since march last year and put 230 miles on it, but i watch my motor temps really close when i ride on hard pack. My old
d7 rarely got above 130, running down groomed trail without ice scratchers, and this pro with ice scratchers will hit 150 in a hurry. I dont like it but i try to keep it in the low 140's as much as possible. Just a thought.
d7 rarely got above 130, running down groomed trail without ice scratchers, and this pro with ice scratchers will hit 150 in a hurry. I dont like it but i try to keep it in the low 140's as much as possible. Just a thought.
I do not remember having all these problems when we had steel lined cylinders .
How many guys running turbos have torn down to check cylinders ?
Maybe we need some one to make a replacement mono block or a seperate cylinders other than poo . My thoughts are still bad casting material ?
How many guys running turbos have torn down to check cylinders ?
Maybe we need some one to make a replacement mono block or a seperate cylinders other than poo . My thoughts are still bad casting material ?
That sucks i have a 12 pro my next and only mod will be another 2 year waranty. I will treat this thing like my 600 as far as warm up. I have been warming it two 90 and shut off. I do little stretchting and get dressed shoot the chit. I then retart let temps get two 90 and baby machine until 120 and 5-6hrs of wfo. Two thumbs up with the track trim thank u f bomb.
G
Going West
Well-known member
here you go
http://www.mostwantedperformance.com/performance-enhancement-kit.html
same thing different company
http://www.terraalpsracing.com/product/thermostat-kits
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RKT
Well-known member
The bottom/lower half of the cylinder/engine is where these failures are occuring... The lower half of the engine runs MUCH, MUCH cooler than the upper half and is also not subjected to any combustion process (read...MUCH less stress on itself)
Most of the heat and fatigue occurs inthe upper half of the cylinder not the lower.. The failures are in the lower half...
What the lower half, as well as the upper half, share is a piston STOP and direction change.. When this occurs with the upper half (TDC) it is under VERY high pressure, when it accurs at the lower half (BDC) , it is under MUCH lower pressure.. MUCH.. Again, these failures occur on the lower half not the upper..
So, while the cooling design of the cylinders is not ideal, the cylinder cracking is not from this. It is from a piston (unsupported) changing directions and "smacking" the lower skirt.. If you smooth this "smack" you will fix the issue..
Polaris uses a loose piston because it has to conform to a "standard" of prolonged testing without failure in order to meet regulations.
With a normal fitting piston, this test fails.. with a loose piston , it passes..And, this is related to the cooling design.. but the failure is NOT skirt crack, but a piston seizure.. remember the early Dragons? They would seize up for no apparent reason... Then Polaris "UPDATED" your Dragon.. and the seziure lessened right along with your power!
Fix the piston and the skirt failures will diminsh.. The question is.. Is your skirt already fatigued??
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RKT
Well-known member
No DOUBT!!
Doobie.. I am sorry to hear about your engine.. I do remember our phone call.. You can cancel the piston order if you wish.
I would HIGHLY recommend getting the updated Fuji crank from Northern Crankshaft IN MN..
You can get your cylinder welded OR get the 2013 case and cylinder
Let me know if I can help out...
Kelsey
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Vfrtrader
Well-known member
Kelsey,
Why are Beamslayer's pistons and cylinders fine, no skuffing, therefore, no seizure? I'm not disagreeing to your comments, but just asking a question. Was the 08 Dragon single ring pistons tight and the 10 update put in loose pistons? Was the "no apparent reason" seizure do to tight pistons and cooling issues? In your opinion, what is the true issue with the Pro motors? Just a sloppy piston only? Or does the small block have a cooling issue? And the cranks. Thanks for your input.
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RKT
Well-known member
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RKT
Well-known member
Beamslayers pistons are not fine, they are collapsed at the skirt.. and his cylinders are not fine either.. they are cracked..
Yes, the 08 was a single ring piston with a high compression head and made better power than anything since..
The no apparent seizures wer due to many things.. mainly the 4 injector calibration among other.
Pro motor issues??? Many issues, but the piston is the biggest issue IMO.. once you fix it and add more oil, the engine is much more reliable and makes more power as well.. but, there are other issues present as well..
Crank.. 2011-2012 = Mape' crank.. sub standard bearings and loose tolerances... 2013=Fuji Crank.. much better...
Cylinders?-->>cooling design is not great.. stagnant flow and other issues..
So does your cheater head help with this problem?
