Is the snowmobile industry going into terminal decline?

[Blown Motor]

Shane, I hear what your saying, however I'm sure it costs them money and time to do what they do. They probably don't pay for music which is a massive expense they can save, but they have helicopters and RC helicopters and there is certainly a lot of effort that goes into their shows. You'll notice they have the support of BRP and Polaris- at least the Swedish counterparts, they also have the Ruff Riders brand that produces soft goods. Their is scene is young and they have found a way to make it work with industry collusion. I haven't experienced that opportunity regardless of the distribution platform. At some point, you need the right people to "get it", I have yet to meet those people amongst the manufactures.

I 100% agree with ya, I just feel that the majority of the expenses are music, travel, and rider support. A lot of riders here feel that they need to be reimbursed for what they do, and this may be true to some point, but I whole heartedly believe from watching that video that if those guys were not getting any sort of product or support they would still be out there building kickers and riding on the weekend with there buddies. Again just my opinion, but a lot of guys here would bag the sport and effort and mope in my opinion if they didn't get the product they felt they "deserved". They do have some very key sponsors, ridestore is a big one. I wasn't aware they actually had backing from the OEM's I was informed during conversation that they have backing from dealers that sell those brands and include the logos of the brands based on an agreement. With that said I could be mis-informed for sure. Helicopters and RC stuff def costs money, but it can also be one of those situations of just having the right buddies in the right areas. I know of several guys that would fly RC down here for free and a couple that even have full on heli's, and if we could just step out our back door and film, would do it for next to nothing just to be involved with something cool. But out WEST where we are, that doesn't happen. But I think the biggy, like you touched on before is that they have a brand to keep, sell and market, so if they lose money but sell more sweatshirts than the years past, it is a promotional advertising cost that just gets filed away, and they will continue to produce content year after year just for the advertising value.

 

[Jorli]

I 100% agree with ya, I just feel that the majority of the expenses are music, travel, and rider support. A lot of riders here feel that they need to be reimbursed for what they do, and this may be true to some point, but I whole heartedly believe from watching that video that if those guys were not getting any sort of product or support they would still be out there building kickers and riding on the weekend with there buddies. Again just my opinion, but a lot of guys here would bag the sport and effort and mope in my opinion if they didn't get the product they felt they "deserved". They do have some very key sponsors, ridestore is a big one. I wasn't aware they actually had backing from the OEM's I was informed during conversation that they have backing from dealers that sell those brands and include the logos of the brands based on an agreement. With that said I could be mis-informed for sure. Helicopters and RC stuff def costs money, but it can also be one of those situations of just having the right buddies in the right areas. I know of several guys that would fly RC down here for free and a couple that even have full on heli's, and if we could just step out our back door and film, would do it for next to nothing just to be involved with something cool. But out WEST where we are, that doesn't happen. But I think the biggy, like you touched on before is that they have a brand to keep, sell and market, so if they lose money but sell more sweatshirts than the years past, it is a promotional advertising cost that just gets filed away, and they will continue to produce content year after year just for the advertising value.

I'm not touching on rider support, I'm talking only about the production side. I have no idea how RR does what they do, thats their business and I'm not in their loop. Last year with F3, we had (3 filmers) with a combined total of $14K in fuel expenses, thats only marginally less than all the sponsorship dollars collected, and then there are all the other expenses and don't forget labor, I can't afford to spend another 10 months paying to work. We had in-kind support as well, BC Ferries stepped up and really helped out with $7500 in ferry fairs. Tourism Whistler gave us the cineflex heli footage that likely a $20K day for them and NASA provided the "priceless" space footage. I appreciate your support as well as all the other companies that helped out. I'm stoked for those that can make it work, unfortunately that is not me.

 

[phatty]

I 100% agree with ya, I just feel that the majority of the expenses are music, travel, and rider support. A lot of riders here feel that they need to be reimbursed for what they do, and this may be true to some point, but I whole heartedly believe from watching that video that if those guys were not getting any sort of product or support they would still be out there building kickers and riding on the weekend with there buddies. Again just my opinion, but a lot of guys here would bag the sport and effort and mope in my opinion if they didn't get the product they felt they "deserved". They do have some very key sponsors, ridestore is a big one. I wasn't aware they actually had backing from the OEM's I was informed during conversation that they have backing from dealers that sell those brands and include the logos of the brands based on an agreement. With that said I could be mis-informed for sure. Helicopters and RC stuff def costs money, but it can also be one of those situations of just having the right buddies in the right areas. I know of several guys that would fly RC down here for free and a couple that even have full on heli's, and if we could just step out our back door and film, would do it for next to nothing just to be involved with something cool. But out WEST where we are, that doesn't happen. But I think the biggy, like you touched on before is that they have a brand to keep, sell and market, so if they lose money but sell more sweatshirts than the years past, it is a promotional advertising cost that just gets filed away, and they will continue to produce content year after year just for the advertising value.

There are very few riders that would bag the sport if they didn't get their "sponsorships", but there are a whole bunch that would change the way they ride or the stunts they pull. Most of us film because we love the rush, the adrenaline, and the experience. Same reason people ride sleds, they love the experience. Like you said, even if I am not filming, I am still going to be out there shredding the pow.

I have seen a big change in OEM getting behind the free ride scene in the last couple years. I know of quite a few individuals receiving support from them which has never happened in the past. Even though I don't always agree that where they are putting that support is the best bang for their buck, it is still nice to see it happening. On the flip side I still see some riders getting sponsored and ripping off the companies that sponsor them and there is nothing worse for this sport than that. Drives me up a wall that a company can be that naive, and that a person can be so unethical and have no integrity.

I think a lot of times we feel like the sport is growing because of over crowded parking lots and seeing more people on the hill. The truth is that closing riding areas forces more people into the same spots overcrowding them, giving the perception of more riders in the sport. New sleds are so easy to ride that people can get their sleds into places that used to require skill and finesse to ride so you see more people in your honey holes.

But I do think Jorli's main point rings true, there was no money to be made in snowmobile films or marketing, that's why everyone of the big players went and got clinics, tours, and other avenues that actually can provide a living in the sport they love and are committed to. But ironically, they still use films as the best way to advertise...

 

[palmer600]

I look at it this way, if we, the consumer, continue to buy $13000 sleds, that is what the manufacturers will sell. If we started to buy more of the "entry", sub $13000 sleds, then that is what the manufacturer will make. We, the consumer, dictate what is being sold. A manufacturer will not sell something that is not, well, selling. We actually control what is being bought in any market, cars, gas, homes, if nothing is being bought, prices go down, plain and simple. Maybe we as sledders, instead of snow checking the most expensive sled made, snow check the smaller ones, start buying 600 base instead of 800 pro's. I think the future of the sport is in the consumers hands, not the climate or the manufacturers. Also, do we really need all the technology that is being introduced? This is another thing that drives the price up.

 

[Dogmeat]

I completely agree that its really getting ridiculous how much it costs to buy a new snowmobile these days....but, its not just snowmobiles, its everything. $20,000 for a Razr anyone? I mean you're paying $9,000 for a dirt bike as well in this day and age. Its totally possible to sled on a budget though. Buy 4-5 year old sleds and learn to work on them yourself. As good as the new sleds are, 95% of the people out there won't be doing "more" or "better" riding as a result of being on a Pro RMK or an XM as opposed to an M8 or a Rev or something, ya know?

The other thing about it that is probably the most expensive thing for a lot of people .... gas, aka travel. When you live right next to the mountains this isn't an issue, but when you live in a place like Denver and have to spend 6 hours in the truck to get 6 hours of riding it, it kind of sucks. This is even worse obviously if you live in say ... Iowa.

Its an expensive sport, no question about it, but thats power sports in general .... I gave up cars for snowmobiles and dirt bikes because drag racing cars was just stupid stupid stupid expensive